GWJ Ventrilo Server FAQ

It seems League of Legends has become pretty popular and with WoW and LoL being played on a very regular basis the server ends up full. I am not sure if this is premature but is there a way to expand the amount of people our server can handle? It seems we are getting more and more people, on a regular basis.

I was also wondering if it is time to change the password. We seem to be getting a lot of people who are most certainly not part of the community, as in they don't speak English and or don't know what the site is. Not sure if changing a password would make a difference or not but it may be worth doing.

Those are both questions for TheWalt; I'll drop him a line.

I am very appreciative of TheWalt providing the server for us. Any time there has been a dontation drive, I have been more than happy to give, and I have helped out with administering the server along with others here. I don't play League of Legends, but I have noticed the server having a lot more LoL players. I have never had any problems with the WoW population (I think they have raids on Thursday nights when I'm mostly on), but if two games are going to shut out the rest of us from getting on, I will be bummed.

LoL looks like Demigod to me - wasn't that game really popular for awhile and then died down? Does it look like LoL will go that route or the WoW route? If the latter, then maybe increasing the slots would be the best route to go if TheWalt is on board with it. It is not my server so it is not my decision, but if the need for more slots is due to one game, then maybe players of that game who have not donated before should be willing to help fund the cost of increasing the slots. Just my opinion.

If there are people not part of the GWJ community freeloading on the server, any of the admins could kick them off if slots are needed.

trowan wrote:

If there are people not part of the GWJ community freeloading on the server, any of the admins could kick them off if slots are needed.

I wonder if there may need to be more admins in the LoL group. I could be wrong but as far as I can tell Gaald is the only one I know of. It may be tricky for the admins that don't play LoL to know who belongs in the LoL channels and who doesn't...

On a similar but different topic, could we have a couple more LoL channels, it seem as though we are running out of open channels sometimes.

Thanks

Booting people because there name isn't familiar isn't going to help. We have several admins on the server who are on, on a very regular basis. I am not sure if we need more, but that's not my decision to make. As for more channels in the League of Legends section. I just added two more channels and hopefully that will help.

LoL looks like Demigod to me - wasn't that game really popular for awhile and then died down? Does it look like LoL will go that route or the WoW route?

I am not sure if it will die down, but unlike Demigod there seems to be more and more people playing all the time. We never had this many people play Demigod and we all seem to play it consistently.

So if everyone is up for kicking in a few bucks we should be able to work something out I hope. I just actually put up a little cash and it was long overdue.

I really want to thank everyone for making the server a fun place to play games online with the people from the community!

Hey guys-
I see activity has picked up quite a bit lately on the Ventrilo server, and as a result, some issues have been arising. There are a number of options available, so I thought I would lay out the three main categories.

1) Continue as is... leave it to our deputy marshalls to maintain the positive voice chat community.

Pros- Has worked decently in the past, takes least amount of effort/resources
Cons - Allows for the occasional outlaw behavior, and doesn't really address the issue of a full server.

2) Password modification. Ventrilo allows for a good many UserID/password solutions

Pros - Can ensure only GWJ community is on the server, lots of tools built in to the Ventrilo control panel to grow this structure.
Cons - Big effort to get started, and needs structure to maintain. Could keep members from getting on the server if no admins are available.

*A change to the global password might work temporarily, but internet freeloaders might be quicker to pick up on the password change than the GWJ community itself.

3) Throw more money at the service provider. We're currently on the annual 50 user plan, but could expand to a 75 or 100 user server if we're so inclined.

1 Month 3 Months 6 Months 12 Months 24 Months
50 Users $18.99 $51.27 $91.15 $134.45 $227.88 Order Now
75 Users $29.99 $80.97 $143.95 $212.33 $359.88 Order Now
100 Users $39.99 $107.97 $191.95 $283.13 $479.88 Order Now
150 Users $59.99 $161.97 $287.95 $424.73 $719.88 Order Now
200 Users $79.99 $215.97 $383.95 $566.33 $959.88 Order Now

Pros - should reduce capacity issues
Cons - Costs more $$, and only address capacity issues.

*As a sidenote, we're paid thru Feb 2011 based on the generosity of the GWJ community donations through the Clanpay system. I haven't even had to organize a donation drive for the Vent server since maybe 3 years ago. There is currently $84 in the Clanpay account, which will be applied towards the 2011-12 budget.

Personally, I think option 2 would provide the best solution, although reading and understanding the control panel and admin setup is a task unto itself. If there's an eager group of admins willing to take on the task, we can modify the Ventrilo info post at the top of this thread. Instead of the global password of mmmkay, users would be directed to a list of admins to request a unique password. This could become an onerous task, which is why we originally went with the global password in the first place.

Anyhow, I'll let the community decide (post your comments and let your voices be heard!) and we can proceed from here.

Thanks,
TheWalt

I will have to play around with my vent server (I use the same provider) to see if this is possible, but what about making all the channels user only (no anonymous logins). The root channel should not allow voice communication so people can login but have to move to another channel to talk. We can create a global channel that anonymous players can login to and talk but limit it to 5 users only. Then give every normal user the ability to create new users. We will very quickly get everyone who uses vent a user and the issue of the vent server being hijacked will be reduced.

If you go with #2, maybe having an admin or two assigned to each main channel would help with giving out passwords. If LoL is going to continue to expand, I think going with #3 is inevitable provided the money is in the account.

I would go with logins for all, and appoint a couple admins per gaming group to create logins for that group's players. Labor intensive at first, but it keeps us from paying for freeloaders. Then take a look in a couple weeks and see if we need more slots under the new system.

We likely have several admins per group already, and would just need them to identify themselves to their group. We could spend a week getting people registered before closing the server to the unregistered.

Just my thoughts.

Trowan Tannhausered the sh** out of me!

...he pretty much pwninates me when I play Battlefield, too...

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Trowan Tannhausered the sh** out of me!

...he pretty much pwninates me when I play Battlefield, too...

You picking up BC2 for the PC?

I've basically been taking a break from multiplayer gaming since my daughter's birth; dunno when that will change.

I know my opinion may not have as much weight as the old timers but here goes nothing...

I think 2 has some potential but am a bit concerned how this gets administered, like you said if there are no admins on how do new users get in? Or maybe we have a friend over and they want to play a game with us? Who constitutes a Goodjer and has the rights to use the vent server? I think this is the base question. I would say that if a whole group of people that have never been seen on GWJ and don't want to talk with the others they are hijacking but you will most likely get others who are curious and are looking for a new community that will get blocked because there is no clear way to get in to the community. Or if there are time where there are no admins on and a new user is pushed away, and maybe he is the coolest dude ever :roll:.

I think what I am trying to say either that I am the coolest dude ever or more realistically that being new I appreciate that the vent GWJ community is a really fun and considerate community that welcomed me and my lack of skill in. It has made games that I regularly found frustrating and disappointing because none of my tangible friends have any real interest in pc gaming great. I can imagine that if the barrier to entry was high it would reduce the number of people that walk in on their own. I would also be concerned about friends/family being able to hop in when they are around for a game or two.

I don't know if it would be possible to allow a "guest pass" or two, or if you could log in a couple times with the same credentials would solve the friends/family issue.

As far as new users go, if you can allow users on a couple times before they would be required to get real logons. I'm not sure what is the best solution for this.

Just some food for thought. And thanks for making a great community.

I think all the tools necessary to solve our problems lie in the software.

3.0 has very thorough User Access Rights.

http://www.ventrilo.com/uar.php

Making room for logins:

If a all slots on the server are full you can still assign individual login accounts the right to automatically boot a less powerful account from the server in order to make room for them.

Each account can be assigned an "In reserved list" right. If this right is enabled for your account and the server is full then the server will search for any guest client and kick one of them first. If no guest client is found the server will then search for a client that does not have the reserved right set. If none of these are found the server will simply say that the server is full and to try again later.

If your account has the server admin right then the above search sequence will still happen but it will go one step further. It will search for a client that does not have the server admin right and then kick them as a last resort. This way server admin's can always get into the server.

Over time I think we can work on getting everyone a GWJ id and password, while Joe Public can still login as a GUEST. Of course, if the server is full, but only 25 GWJ'ers on the server, GUESTS will start getting booted to make room for GWJ accounts.

I think we need to advertise this in this thread and on the forums, and have a phased rollout if it's to work smoothly, especially since I'm sure the GWJ community has grown from the Ventrilo community (as irl friends of GWJ have seen the joys of the GWJ community by using our server, and have started accounts in the forums, such as Monocheli ;))

I believe you can give the average users the rights to allow someone to create an account. Once you have an account you can then let others in. The idea is that once you have your account on the vent server you can invite anyone you want. It wouldn't require everyone have admin rights. We can assume that most GWJers using vent won't let in people that they don't know. If the GUEST option that TheWalt mentions works, that would be a good way to keep things open, but also make sure GWJers get priority.

There are literally dozens of admins, so there is almost certainly always one on. If we need more, particularly for a certain gaming group, just ask. Right now you probably just aren't aware how many there are. I wouldn't personally go as far as to let all users have the ability to make accounts, because we are having space concerns.

I think using Guest accounts that must yield to registered accounts gets us almost everything we want; what it doesn't get us is freedom from griefing idiots. Only mandatory registration gets us that.

I'd say let's go ahead and make Guests get booted for registered users, and start word of mouth that everyone needs to get registered through an admin in their group. After some period of time we can disable Guests altogether if we want to be free of griefers.

For now, that means everything is mostly just as it has been. In the theoretical future, it could mean that new folks just need to register in advance of playing, which isn't too arduous. The one area this could be a problem is for WoW players wanting to bring temporary companions (PUGs) to the server. We could keep Guests enabled then, if it's a big enough deal.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

There are literally dozens of admins, so there is almost certainly always one on. If we need more, particularly for a certain gaming group, just ask. Right now you probably just aren't aware how many there are. I wouldn't personally go as far as to let all users have the ability to make accounts, because we are having space concerns.

I agree, it would just take one person to completely abuse the system. If additional admins are needed, maybe limit them to people who have been "tagged" also.

How will we know who's an admin?

I am not talking about making everyone admins though. Just allowing anyone who is a user to allow guests to become users. It isn't hard to ban a user that has been created if a problem arises. Also, I know how often an admins are on (I use a utility that tells me who is on vent before I decide if I want to login which puts an "A" beside the admins) and 80% of the time there are no admins on. Currently there are 18 people on vent, and there is one admin in a WoW channel that is password protected. Getting more admins might help but a system where everyone can invite is far better IMO. We actually do this with the Left 4 Dead group in steam. Everyone in the group can invite someone else into the group.

cyrax - Right now we're just brainstorming, but if we used the method I'm thinking of, we'd need the admins to identify themselves to their gaming groups, preferably both in the relevant threads and on Vent during gaming sessions.

The more I think about it, the more I think that we should continue to allow Guest users, and just give registered users preference on a full server.

kazar - Ultimately, it's TheWalt's call, but I still agree with Trowan that not everyone should be able to make accounts. And if we continue to allow Guests, it's mostly a moot point.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

kazar - Ultimately, it's TheWalt's call, but I still agree with Trowan that not everyone should be able to make accounts. And if we continue to allow Guests, it's mostly a moot point.

I never said/implied that it was my call. I am just giving my opinions on the matter based on his choices and how I have seen things work in other parts of the GWJ community. In the end I would hate to be in a game with someone and they get kicked off because they were a guest and nobody around to let him back in.

I was saying that it isn't my call, bro.

I intpreted what you said as making it sound like I was dictating how things will be, which it appears wasn't what you were saying. Sorry about that.

No problem, the internet is a vague medium. Happens to all of us.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

cyrax - Right now we're just brainstorming, but if we used the method I'm thinking of, we'd need the admins to identify themselves to their gaming groups, preferably both in the relevant threads and on Vent during gaming sessions.

The more I think about it, the more I think that we should continue to allow Guest users, and just give registered users preference on a full server.

kazar - Ultimately, it's TheWalt's call, but I still agree with Trowan that not everyone should be able to make accounts. And if we continue to allow Guests, it's mostly a moot point.

My thought would be that all tagged Goodjers should be given rights to add users, then you know that they have been around a bit and have a vested interest in the community. This will create an easy way to tell who has right to add by looking in the forums. That being said I think the more, easily identified people that can add people the better.

The other thing is if we find we are booting players often because we are full, and there is enough money being donated then there would be value to getting a 75 person server over kicking guests regularly. I would assume with more admins we would be paying more attention to people who are coming in and taking advantage of the server.

It would be a sad day when guests are not allowed...

MonoCheli wrote:

It would be a sad day when guests are not allowed...

I don't have a problem with guests, but I also have no sympathy for them - community members should have preference over any guest in my opinion. And if some additional people donate some funds (I just added more myself), this will be a moot point.

trowan wrote:
MonoCheli wrote:

It would be a sad day when guests are not allowed...

I don't have a problem with guests, but I also have no sympathy for them - community members should have preference over any guest in my opinion. And if some additional people donate some funds (I just added more myself), this will be a moot point.

Could we try a Password change first, and see how that is handled for the first few months?

Considering the TF2 server experience and how complicated the password/access was, I think the first step is to make the actual goodjer community (all newcomers welcome, of course) aware that there should be some discretion regarding the password and the access it gives to "our" server (as Walt says, there's plenty of money to go around from all the donations).

Yes it only takes one user to foil everyone's discretion, but it worked out (mostly) for the TF2 server.

once guests can't freely access, they'll either
- not come back,
- register on the site which qualifies them as a goojder,
- ask their contact / friend / crystal ball about the pwd.

if we see the same problem;pwd is openly and carelessly shared around, we can try step 2 which will be better in the long run but will be a bit of a hassle;
- admins who are connected to ventrilo are usually doing something else (aka, playing).
- if I'm following the conversation correctly, the protocol is to create a user for the player, how will the admin be reached? will a third party invite the interested guest? will this third party vouch for his good behavior?

there's plenty of work arounds (sp,gm?), but I'm willing to give the goodjer community the benefit of the doubt that now that the problem has been made aware to the general population, the community will react accordingly.

I think the only thing a password change will help with will be to prevent the occasional griefer from harrasing users, or from preventing the freeloaders who seem to be planning their next credit card scam in a language I don't understand. I don't think it will do anything to help with the capacity issue. For the past few nights, the League of Legends channels have had 20+ users in them. Add a WoW raid, and the server is full. I would guess the people playing both are from GWJ or are friends with someone who is, so I think it will be very difficult to define who is a guest and who is not.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

as Walt says, there's plenty of money to go around from all the donations

From the way I read it, there is plenty of money to go around with the plan that is currently in place - 50 users. Anything else would require more money to increase the slots.

Changing the Guest password creates an immediate hassle for all, and the only way to really distribute it in a timely manner would be to post it publicly, which brings us right back to where we are.

If things remain as they are, then perhaps we will need to increase the slots on the server. I think it might be wise to first try having the server kick Guests in favor of registered users, and see how much of a problem we still have.

We can continue to allow Guests so that we don't harm spontaneous game sessions, new friends, WoW PUGs, etc., and the only possible "problem" will be if an unregistered Goodjer gets kicked for someone who is registered. Like Trowan, I don't see this as a big deal; you can easily avoid it by registering.

A lot of servers also use ranks and reserved slots to give preference to those who donate, and frankly I have no problem with that either. Right now what I think we're talking about is just asking people to register so that the server can tell who belongs. It's easy, and it's free.

Hey guys, I like the idea of all tagged Goodjers being given rights to add users, as they do have a vested interest in the community. The Ventrilo software also keeps track of who is the 'Owner' of new users, so it's very easy to track trouble makers, and those who added troublemakers to the list. If you add someone to the registered user list, your name is attached to theirs.

The donations continue to roll in... we're paid through 2012 now, or we can apply some of those funds to upgrading the server to 75 or 100.

Here's a list of the current Registered Users"
acev
BabaGanoush
Chief Wiggum
Copingsaw
duckilama
Edwin
Farscry
Fedaykin
Firedrake
Funkenpants
Gaald
genotype
Hobbes2009
Indignant
Jarhead22
LeapingGnome
Liquidmantis
Malor
Moondragon
Multra
Nosferatu
Pharacon
ranalin
Rebel Blob
RichyRambo
shades2war
sirwreck
Stylez
SwampYankee
TheWalt
TrashiDawa
trowan

I'm not sure how many of these folks are Admins, but I would encourage all of the admins to work on registering as many Goodjers as possible. I've checked the 'In reserved list' box on the network tab of all these users, so that's where they'll boot a Guest account if the server is full.

The next step is to go to the 75 or 100 user server, which wouldn't be a problem either, if full servers continue to be a problem. It's good to see activity levels this high though, having to go to a bigger server indicates good gaming community!

-TheWalt