Help Me Build My PC Catch-All

That depends on the resolution of your monitor, mostly.

The 4850 is best at about 1280x800, it'll go to 1440x900 or so at good speed if you turn the settings down a little. You might be able to get along okay at 1680x1050 with the settings way down, or in Source games, which work well on ATI hardware. Anything higher is likely to be pretty painful.

The 4870 is best at 1680x1050, and does 1920x1200 okay, but you probably can't use FSAA at that resolution, and you'll probably have to drop back on some of the other settings.

The 4890 drives 1920x1200 just about perfectly.

I don't think either the 550 or the 630 are likely to be bottlenecks until you're at least at a 4890 at 19x12, and I'm not sure the difference would be visible even then. It doesn't seem like most games require that much CPU grunt, relatively speaking. You'd see, however, a significant improvement in a few games with the 630... Supreme Commander comes to mind.

The 550 would likely be significantly faster in Dwarf Fortress, if you play that game.

Funkenpants wrote:
garion333 wrote:

How much money are we talking about and what resolution are you planning on playing games at. The 630 and 4850 is a decent balance, though if you're playing at 1920x1200, the 4850 might be a bit underpowered as it's only 512mb.

The 4850 is around $90-$100. The 4870 is around $160. I can justify the extra $60, I think, if it's a better match.

I got the 5770 for about $160 from Newegg a week or two ago.

Malor wrote:

The 4870 is best at 1680x1050, and does 1920x1200 okay, but you probably can't use FSAA at that resolution, and you'll probably have to drop back on some of the other settings.

The 4890 drives 1920x1200 just about perfectly.

Ah, I see. I just got a new monitor and that's the native resolution, I think. However, it's not very big (20 or 22 inches, can't remember off hand), so even if I have to run it at a lower resolution I might not notice any difference. But I'll check out the 4890.

PandaEskimo wrote:

I got the 5770 for about $160 from Newegg a week or two ago.

Where does the 5770 fit into the line up? Above the 4870?

Funkenpants wrote:
PandaEskimo wrote:

I got the 5770 for about $160 from Newegg a week or two ago.

Where does the 5770 fit into the line up? Above the 4870?

About 5% below a 4870 in just about everything if you look at anandtech benchmarks.

Really what is wrong with them. Why can't they make the bigger numbers better?

Looks like the HD 5770 is about $165 on Newegg, and the HD 4870 is about $175.

The 4870 has 256 bit over the 128 bit of the 5770, but the processor and memory are faster on the 5770. The 5770 also has Direct X 11 while the 4870 has 10.1 if that makes any difference.

This is what tech report said when comparing the two cards for the econobox build:

...folks who play state-of-the-art 3D games may want to step up to the new Radeon HD 5770. We saw first-hand that this card pretty much shadows the old Radeon HD 4870 1GB, generally reaching playable frame rates at 1920x1200 with 4X antialiasing. The somewhat inflated cost isn't hard to swallow in this price range, and you'll notice the difference at higher resolutions and detail levels. Why not just get the 4870 1GB for about the same price? First, the 5770 consumes quite a bit less power, generates less noise with the stock cooler, has a shorter circuit board, and has better texture filtering than its predecessor. Last, but not least, the 5770's DirectX 11 support may bring image quality or performance bonuses in DX11 games (a couple are already out, with more to follow in early 2010).

Please help me troubleshoot a problem with my build:

A few months ago I sank some money into my rig for an upgrade. At first I was highly pleased with the results, especially since I did the upgrades on the cheap. Then things started going flakey kind of erratically. I've tried to follow sound troubleshooting logic, but at times it seems like either I've mis-diagnosed the issue or several things are going hinkey all at once.

Here is my rig:

New components:

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor
ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit
HIS Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

Reused components:

VisionTek ATI HD4850 512 (in Crossfire configuration)
WD Raptor 150 GB hdd
WD 750 GB hdd
Optical drives etc.

Issues:
One:
A few months after getting this set up, I noticed that Windows (Win7 64bit Professional) was having a REALLY slow time accessing some folders on my data drive. I tried a bunch of solutions and tests and ended up replacing it after I was able to get a bad sector error on a diganostic. (New HDD: HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K (0S00163) 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive) The replacement drive did not suffer identical issues, but there did seem to be niggling desktop performance issues. Since I couldn't put a finger on them, I decided they were my imagination.

Two:
A month or so after migrating my data to the new drive, I began to get some crashes in games (LOTRO mainly, but I hadn't been playing much else). When I looked through the logs I could see I was getting memory errors from the video cards. The older 4850 has been running much hotter than the newer and better cooled unit, but temps were well withing spec. Eventually I pulled the older 4850 out and reduced resolution and that seemed to bring stability. (The cards are running a 23" monitor w/ 1920x1080 native resolution.)

Three:
After another month or so, I'd been really busy and hadn't run my gaming rig in well over a week. When I went into my office one morning I saw the monitor was stuck on the BIOS post splash screen. I could get it to post, show the windows loading screen, and choose whether I wanted safe mode or normal, but instead of booting into the OS it would beep and reboot. Normal Windows troubleshooting/recover/repair was unsuccessful. So I stripped the unit down to CPU, Mem and video. Here's where it got tricky, because I did not get consistent results. Sometime it would post, sometimes it gave me a bad memory beep code. So I took the video card out and tried to isolate a bad stick of ram. At first it seemed as if I had identified a bad stick, but as I tried the good stick in several slots to rule out the mobo, I started to receive the "no/bad memory" beep code every time.

Conclusions:
Since I was finally able to get bad memory codes out of the mobo, I was able to get an RMA code from ASUS. Still, the rapid failure of HDD, video card, and mobo makes me want to look for an underlying cause. I think Malor had a similar Corsair 650 PSU that went bad on him, but I don't want to assume anything. So what should I decide I'm trying to fix and what should I do when ASUS sends me a replacement mobo.

One:
I have an OS problem and several unrelated hardware issues. I should wipe my OS hdd and reinstall when the new mobo gets here and look for a cheap replacement 4850 or a more spendy video card replacement.

Two:
I have an OS problem and several unrelated hardware issues and I f*cked something up while troubleshooting and shorted the mobo. (I'm pretty careful about unplugging and draining flea power between tests, but it only takes one mistake to zorch something.) If the RMA is approved I should consider myself lucky and go with option one.

Three:
I have a deeper issue that I should try and figure out before putting the rig back together. I should get a multi-meter and test my PSU before plugging anything expensive into it ever again.

Four:
Just give up on building stuff myself and save my money for macs and consoles, which don't require or allow their owners to touch the hardware. (I'm not going to do this, but I'm awfully frustrated at the moment.)

Okay, I think I have settled on a build. Only thing I am not sure about is memory. I am planning on 8 gb total, unless someone tells me that I'm wasting my money and only need 6 gb.

Antec 902 mid-tower case
Intel Core i5-750
2 x CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) = 8 GB total
XFX Radeon HD 5770 1GB Video Card
Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB Hard Drive
Corsair 650w power supply
MS Windows 7 Home Premium for system buiders

After shipping, this should be right about $1,000.

Coping, I have the same chip and card since friday and I'm running ME2 smooth as can be at 1680x1050.

Hint: I also stuck with the drivers on the disc that comes with the card since there have been so many problems with the 10.1 drivers.

Oso wrote:

Whoa

The voltage check is a good idea. The rma'd motherboard is a good idea. The reinstallation of the OS with then new mb arrives is a good idea. You sound like you have everything in order.

My only suggestion is to drop the crossfire if you go that route. It's such a pain when things go wrong. It's hard to tell which card is messed up or is it just a conflict with a game, etc.

Cope, which motherboard are you doing? I was gonna check the RAM compatibility just to be sure.

Copingsaw wrote:

Okay, I think I have settled on a build. Only thing I am not sure about is memory. I am planning on 8 gb total, unless someone tells me that I'm wasting my money and only need 6 gb.

Antec 902 mid-tower case
Intel Core i5-750
2 x CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) = 8 GB total
XFX Radeon HD 5770 1GB Video Card
Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB Hard Drive
Corsair 650w power supply
MS Windows 7 Home Premium for system buiders

After shipping, this should be right about $1,000.

That's pretty much what I got a week or two ago. I'm pretty sure the ram won't run above 1333 for the i5 750 (may be wrong on that), but I also got 1600 and it works fine for me. If you aren't getting it, I recommend a heatsink / fan for the processor but its not a necessity.

I was also reading a review of the 5770s and they said the 2nd iteration of them used an "egg" shaped fan / heatsink cover instead of the sleeve and that cooling was a bit better,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161317 (for example). I don't know if it makes much difference though. The one I linked to is also single DVI. I'm not too sure on that, it was just a comment in an article.

The original article: http://en.expreview.com/2009/12/04/radeon-hd-5770-first-second-edition-performance-comparison/6015.html/2

Malor wrote:

Cope, which motherboard are you doing? I was gonna check the RAM compatibility just to be sure.

I think I changed my mind on the MB. Too many good reviews of the ASRock P55 Extreme LGA 1156 Intel P55. Real good deal on the GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD3L right now but it just seemed like too many lukewarm or problematic reviews. I've always gone with Gigabyte but think I'm gonna switch it up this time.

Also thinking about a SSD, although I hear about so many problems setting it up that it scares me a bit. OCZ Agility Series 2.5" 60GB seems like the best deal right now. Any reason why this would be a bad choice? I'd really rather have 60GB to keeps some software on the SSD instead of 30GB, which won't handle much more than Windows. Also, am I going to need to purchase a special mount to get this into my case?

My vote is to say screw the SSD and put that money towards a 5800 card.

Let us know how the ASRock works out. I like what they offer (and their prices!!), but Gigabyte has my heart right now.

So I finalized my computer build, it's the following

Intel Core i7 950 (4x 3.06GHz/8Cores Threaded,8MB Cache,LGA 1366)
Asus Radeon 5970 2GB GDDR5
2 x OCZ OCZ3OB1600LV6GK Obsidian Series DDR3-1600 PC12800 6GB Kit (3x2GB)
Xonar DX Soundcard
Asus P6T-Deluxe Motherboard
Scyth 850W PSU
Corsair Obsidian 800d Case
OCZ SSD 60 GB
Western Digital 2TB hard drive
I also threw in a LG blu-ray Rewriter

SteelSeries 5H v2 Gaming Headset - I needed a headset and i've heard really good things about this one.

I can't wait to get it, it's been way to long since i've had a really good gaming PC

Lothar wrote:

So I finalized my computer build, it's the following

Intel Core i7 950 (4x 3.06GHz/8Cores Threaded,8MB Cache,LGA 1366)
Asus Radeon 5970 2GB GDDR5
2 x OCZ OCZ3OB1600LV6GK Obsidian Series DDR3-1600 PC12800 6GB Kit (3x2GB)
Xonar DX Soundcard
Asus P6T-Deluxe Motherboard
Scyth 850W PSU
Corsair Obsidian 800d Case
OCZ SSD 60 GB
Western Digital 2TB hard drive
I also threw in a LG blu-ray Rewriter

SteelSeries 5H v2 Gaming Headset - I needed a headset and i've heard really good things about this one.

I can't wait to get it, it's been way to long since i've had a really good gaming PC

Thanks for proving my point. I just got done telling Malor that Skynet can be built using today's technology but he didn't believe me.

garion333 wrote:

My vote is to say screw the SSD and put that money towards a 5800 card.

Let us know how the ASRock works out. I like what they offer (and their prices!!), but Gigabyte has my heart right now.

I just built a new system and cannot possibly be more happy with the money I spent on an SSD. It is the most noticeable improvement to overall system speed that I've made in I don't know how long. For a gaming machine, of course you want to still want to focus on video card as the key component, but if you can swing a couple hundred for even a 60GB SSD, then by all means do it. Do your homework before buying though because there are some clunker drives out there.

Hmm, well, I looked at the approved memory list on that board, but I can't find anything in stock at Newegg that's the right speed and that I trust, so were I you, I'd probably go ahead and try those Corsairs. It'll probably work, and I know Corsair's a good brand. 8GB won't hurt any. You probably wouldn't want 6... that's more an i7 thing. Remember that i5 has memory in pairs, so you expand two chips at a time. i7 has memory in triplets, so you expand in multiples of three. That's why you see 6 gigs so often on that platform.

As far as SSDs go.... you have to be a little careful there. There are four main controller chips on the market: Samsung, JMicron, Indilinx, and Intel. Only Indilinx and Intel are good, and Intel is the best. Flash memory doesn't sync well with how disk filesystems work, so the firmware on these cards makes an enormous difference in long-term speed. Poor-quality controllers start as fast as everyone else, but degrade quickly, and can have long, long hitches and pauses, which can be maddening.

Indilinx is nearly as good as Intel, and it's much cheaper, so that's often the best way to go if you're price-sensitive.

The OCZ Agility series uses JMicron; the Vertex uses Indilinx, so you want Vertex if you're buying OCZ. One other thing to be aware of is that the Indilinx firmware tends to be in flux more than most, and the QA has been a bit poor, so you kind of have to watch the forums to find a good firmware, and you don't want to rush in on a new one until other people have tested it.

Probably any new Indilinx drive you buy will have the Win7 TRIM support, which is important for best speed over the long term, but you should verify that you've got a TRIM-capable firmware once it arrives. If it does, I'd watch the OCZ forums a bit to see if there are any complaints about that firmware... if not, I'd probably stick with it, and check back about once every six months to see what the current accepted wisdom is on the right firmware to run.

The Intels just work, are faster than everyone else, don't have many firmware revisions, and have MUCH better QA, but they cost more. They had a small problem with their initial Win7 TRIM firmware, but that was because their flash utility had a problem with some IDE chipsets, not the firmware itself. If you get the drive with the TRIM firmware already installed (which should be a certainty at this point, so many months later), you're golden.

Malor wrote:

The Intels just work, are faster than everyone else, don't have many firmware revisions, and have MUCH better QA, but they cost more.

Thanks for the advice Malor. This 40GB Intel SSD goes for only $129 on NewEgg. Seems like a steal, I'll switch to that one.

Malor wrote:

Hmm, well, I looked at the approved memory list on that board, but I can't find anything in stock at Newegg that's the right speed and that I trust, so were I you, I'd probably go ahead and try those Corsairs. It'll probably work, and I know Corsair's a good brand. 8GB won't hurt any. You probably wouldn't want 6... that's more an i7 thing. Remember that i5 has memory in pairs, so you expand two chips at a time. i7 has memory in triplets, so you expand in multiples of three. That's why you see 6 gigs so often on that platform.

And to be clear, the i5's (and i3's, for that matter) have the memory in pairs b/c they're on the 1156 socket platform, not the 1366, right? So really a couple i7's (860 & 870) would need RAM stick pairs, too.

Huh, I didn't realize they'd released i7 for 1156. I didn't think that would work. i5 drives 16 PCIe lanes directly off the chip, and i7 uses a different standard, QPI, which is much faster and more flexible.

You know, I bet those are called i7, but are REALLY i5 with hyperthreading enabled. 'i6' would probably be more accurate.

So, in practical terms, since Intel seems determined to confuse me, yes: 1156 takes memory in pairs, 1366 takes it in trios.

Copingsaw wrote:
Lothar wrote:

So I finalized my computer build, it's the following

Intel Core i7 950 (4x 3.06GHz/8Cores Threaded,8MB Cache,LGA 1366)
Asus Radeon 5970 2GB GDDR5
2 x OCZ OCZ3OB1600LV6GK Obsidian Series DDR3-1600 PC12800 6GB Kit (3x2GB)
Xonar DX Soundcard
Asus P6T-Deluxe Motherboard
Scyth 850W PSU
Corsair Obsidian 800d Case
OCZ SSD 60 GB
Western Digital 2TB hard drive
I also threw in a LG blu-ray Rewriter

SteelSeries 5H v2 Gaming Headset - I needed a headset and i've heard really good things about this one.

I can't wait to get it, it's been way to long since i've had a really good gaming PC

Thanks for proving my point. I just got done telling Malor that Skynet can be built using today's technology but he didn't believe me.

Yeah I did a bit of a 'holy sh*t!' when I read those specs. That's the stuff of dreams to some of us, Lothar. Enjoy the robot apocalypse.

Thanks Guys, I got my cheque for it now

So I will be hopefully picking it up in the next couple days or week at the most.

I can't wait for it.

Hey Guys,

This is my first build so I'm looking for some input.

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Retail

Antec Basiq BP500U 500W Continuous Power ATX12V Version 2.01 Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
I see that the overwhelming opinion here is for 1 rail, but this was recomended by my brother and I haven't been able to determine what a single rail equivelant would be.

SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Retail

GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM - Retail

RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme

For a monitor, I'll be looking at something along the lines of LG L227WTG-PF Black 22" 2ms Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 10000:1DCR with HDCP Support - Retail

This prices out at around 900 bucks and my budget allows for 1200'ish including Windows home premium.

Is this balanced? Where would any bottlenecks be?

Thanks!

Should be pretty solid. The 5770 will, I believe, mate well with a 1680x1050 monitor. I haven't done the math, but you could consider a 5850 and a 1920x1200 screen, if those are doable. If anything, you're probably a little long on processor and short on video, relatively speaking, but that'll also give you some headroom for a new video card later on. I hadn't realized how cheap the Black Editions had gotten; that's a pretty damn good deal. The Black Editions are fully unlocked, so you can run them at whatever speed they can handle, given your cooling. There's not much headroom on AMDs for overclocking, as they're very close to their process limits, so it's not as much of an advantage as it would be on an Intel chip, but it's still nice.

You could consider an aftermarket CPU cooler; they'll typically run quieter and dissipate more heat than the stock unit. If you have a bit of patience, order in the retail one and see how loud it seems to you, before you actually mount it in the case. (ie, set up and run the motherboard on a box or something.) Then, if you want to quiet it down, order in another cooler. I'm not sure what's good on AMD; someone may chime in. If not, and you're interested, I'll go see what I can find. The reason to set it up outside the case is because AMD coolers usually mount through the motherboard, meaning you'll have to completely remove the board from the case to replace the cooler. This is a PITA, so the pre-setup can save you some time.

On power supply: This Corsair 550W is a single-rail supply in the same power neighborhood. It's probably a little more than you need. A 450W single-rail would likely be adequate for anything but a super-hyper-turbo video card. The 550 will give you some extra overhead, if you want to spend the extra $25 or so.

I have no idea what that case is like; maybe someone else will have experience.

There are others here who understand the low-end LCD market a lot better than I do. Thin_J seemed particularly informed. Hopefully someone will have suggestions, because I have no freaking clue.

So, I'm currently sitting on:

  • 2GB DDR2
  • 320MB 8800 GTS
  • 320 GB HDD
  • Case and PSU

I want an inexpensive CPU/Motherboard combo that would match well with those. This is just a spare machine for Hulu, L4D, Civ 4, Red Alert 3, etc. when my brother comes over.

I'm going to newegg now, but I'd like to hear some recommendations.

Should be pretty solid. The 5770 will, I believe, mate well with a 1680x1050 monitor.

It's working well for me right now

I'm going to newegg now, but I'd like to hear some recommendations.

Probably whatever Phenom 2 or Core 2 Duo you feel you can afford. I'd probably go Phenom. Just make sure you get a board/chip that has DDR2 support if you want to use the current RAM. (most Phenom IIs have gone DDR3; I believe at least some of them are also compatible with DDR2, but I'm not sure all of them are, so double-check.)

If you can't find a Phenom that seems to match well, any Core 2 Duo at 2.4Ghz or higher should be fine.

Malor wrote:

If anything, you're probably a little long on processor and short on video, relatively speaking, but that'll also give you some headroom for a new video card later on.

Agreed.

Malor wrote:

On power supply: This Corsair 550W is a single-rail supply in the same power neighborhood. It's probably a little more than you need. A 450W single-rail would likely be adequate for anything but a super-hyper-turbo video card. The 550 will give you some extra overhead, if you want to spend the extra $25 or so.

Ignoring the multiple rail aspect, it appears that the Antec is rated at 70% efficiency, which is pretty darn low. The Basiq is the bottom of the barrel for Antec. If you want to stick with the brand, I'd move up to the Earthwatts, like this.

Also, there are only two sata power connectors on the Basiq, so unless everything you have runs on molex connectors, this wouldn't be good. There is also only one pci-e connector, which is fine for the 5770, but in the future if you get a different video card it might require two pci-e connectors.

Lex Cayman wrote:

I'm going to newegg now, but I'd like to hear some recommendations.

I would recommend a AM2+ motherboard (support for Phenom II CPU's, but with DDR2 slots) like Gigabyte's MA770-UD3 rev2.0. Combine that with a Phenom II x2 CPU and you've got an inexpensive, but quite capable setup!

My current rig, built last summer was quite cheap and plays most games beautifully, I've been enjoying Warhammer 40k; DoW2 lateley, at 1920x1200 with everything set at "high".

Gigabyte MA770-UD3 Rev.2 (AMD 770+710 chipset, DDR2, FireWire, etc)
AMD Phenom X3 720BE, 2,8GHz. clocked at 3GHz.
2x 2GB. PC6400 DDR2 RAM
Radeon 4850 512Mb ("Vapor-X" cooling, runs very quiet)
1TB Samsung Spinpoint harddisk
I stuffed it with the obligatory dvd burner in a small Antec case with 380watts (!) PSU.
(Use one of those online PSU calculators, usually one doesn't need a 550 or higher PSU...)