Rugby - A thug's game played by gentlemen

El_Duder wrote:

Damn you. Fortunately, you have an awesome avatar.

Yeah. The girl's pretty hot too.

pop58 wrote:

Six month ban for Julien Dupuy. The Stade Francais boss, Max Guazzini, says the penalty is political and anti-French. http://www.scrum.com/europeancup/rug...

Well now, I guess even rugby has been invaded by the spin doctors. I suggest Mr. Guazzini have another look at the video posted above. I haven't seen a more blatant example of eye gouging.

Stade Francais and Ulster play again tomorrow in Brussels. I will definitely have to PVR that one.

Agreed, it was clearly deliberate. Why does it seem to happen to the Irish all the time?

pop58 wrote:

Has anyone seen Invictus yet? I've read the book and I'm curious as to how the two compare.

I haven't seen it yet, but most reports are pretty good. And South Africans tend to dislike being poorly represented in movies, so positivity is a good sign.

I'm going to try get to it during the week, I'm on leave and the GF is working, so I don't need to drag her along.

Missing in action from this thread! Exams and a sick wife take there toll on your life So lets see where rugby stands in Europe.


Pool 1

Munster pulled of back to back wins against the heavily favoured Perpignan. After crossing the line 3 times in Thomand Park and losing by a single point, everyone expected Perpignan to take Munster to task in their own fortress, Stade Aimé Giral, where they have won the last 44 out of 45 games. Munster had a different idea.

With Munster to play Treviso and then Northampton in Thomand you would be forgiven for thinking that this is a done deal.


Pool 2

Biarittz are running away with it. They have some quality players in key positions, Damine Traille for me is one of the best players in the world, and look capable of beating anyone in the knock-out stages. They played the Dragons back to back the last few weekends getting two wins and a bonus point. Highlights here


Pool 3

The Ospreys are flying the flag for the Welsh here. They have done all they had to do by racking up the 10 points against Viadana. However the two heavyweights in the shape of Tigers and Clermont had two titanic battles, first with a 40-30 try fest in France

And then a gritty tussle in Welford

which has left the pool finely balanced. Two will qualify from the group thank to the best runner up slot but we can't tell which two just yet.


Pool 4

The story of this pool will have little to do with the rugby. Eye-gouging, suspension and freak weather will be the narrative over the next few weeks. Ulster went to Stade with a good chance of winning but the game had to be moved due to the abnormal weather here in Europe. Travelling twice in a week takes its toll on a team and we will never now if Ulster had a real chance of doing over Stade. Many would have loved to have seen it given Dupuy cowardice. Can't find a vid of the game as I don't think it was televised due to the change. Stade to progress unless we see an upset.


Pool 5

Toulouse to progess. Do I even need to offer qualify my opinion? Sale are in a good spot to get the other runners up spot. Here they are against the second best team in the group, Sale. When the French play like this it hard to find yourself rooting for them.


Pool 6

A two horse race here between London Irish (Or London South Africa as its called in rugby circles) and my old club, Leinster. Leinster look like the are on form and in the driving seat. Both sides will be playing for a home quarter final or a runners up spot over the two remaining matches. Leinster's last match can be viewed here. Can't find the highlights of the last Irish one but it didn't go well as a game of rugby.

So we take a break until the 15th of January but it looks like the French and Irish are going to compete over the spoils this year.

Axon wrote:

Exams and a sick wife take there toll on your life

Hope the exams went well, and the missus is ok.

Interesting write up, thanks.

France and Ireland look more dangerous each year. I'm looking forward to a more balanced North/South rivalry in the next few years. Although SA and Australia didn't cover themselves in glory during the end of year tours, so things are looking more even already.

Axon wrote:

London Irish (Or London South Africa as its called in rugby circles)

If our government could figure out how to tax exports on Rugby players our economy would be way stronger.

All is well, thanks for asking

Don't bet on the Northern countries courting the South as much as they did in the past. England has destroyed its rugby by buying in quick fixes and Ireland and France are beginning to favour their own over players you aren't eligible to the national team. The folly of filling key positions such as Tight-head and Out-half with foreigners has really hurt all nations up here and people at the coal face know it. The problem for England is the clubs are not tied to the national rugby union so they do whatever suits them. Ireland, Scotland and Wales players are all centrally contracted and France's civic structure means the national unions can dictate a policy with more coherence.

Very long ball stuff but one worth keeping in mind as the subtext in the run up here in the North to the next world cup. As far as competing goes, France can beat anyone if the fit takes them and Ireland has gone from being plucky losers to offering a real threat anyone. We could even win the next cup if we get a rub of the green, if you excuse the pun.

The Super 14 pre-season is starting. Starts with bad news for my team

Argentina star Juan Martin Hernandez ruled out of Sharks' Super 14 campaign

Sharks fly-half Juan Martin Hernandez has been ruled out of the Super 14 tournament, the Argentina Rugby World Cup requiring surgery to correct a long-standing back injury.
Hernandez, who joined the Sharks in 2009 on a one-year deal from Paris-based club Stade Francais, will not be fit to return before the expiry of his contract in May.

"The loss of Juan to the Sharks comes as a great disappointment to us, obviously," Sharks head coach John Plumtree said.

"He was an integral part of our backline during the Currie Cup, and his development and integration in the team was set to reach new heights during this year's Super 14, after having spent the last six months with the squad.

"He was a consummate professional who was well-liked by his teammates, and in turn had embraced the culture of the Sharks with relish, having enjoyed his stay with us immensely.

"We will certainly miss him, not only as a player but also a true gentleman of the game."

Hernandez is expected to return to France in May to link up Parisian outfit Racing Metro 92.

The loss of the Argentina Rugby World Cup star means Springboks Ruan Pienaar, who prefers to play scrum-half, may start once again at fly-half because the Sharks have only Monty Dumond fit and ready to play.

Guy Cronje is also recovering from foot surgery.

Dumond has been recalled from a loan to the Cheetahs.

Pienaar, who recently underwent surgery on a long-running knee injury, is racing time to be fit for the Sharks' opening match of the Super 14, against the Chiefs in Durban on February 13.

Round Five of the ERC is now over and it looks as if Ireland and France will dominate the competition. Munster, Leinster, Biarritz and Toulouse look to be those that will command a home quarter final spot while Stade, Clermont, Leicester and London Irish make up those that will travel. The Ospreys will have a big say and still have a chance to get into the knockout stages themselves at the expense of an English side. In other words, the game of the coming weekend is the Ospreys and Leicester.

As for this weekends highlights, the best backline in the world served up a cracking try against Brive

And more importantly....Super League starts soon

davet010 wrote:

And more importantly....Super League starts soon ;)

Yep our beloved Summer game kicks off at the end of January. For us it's a trip to Wrexham a week before almost everybody else.
In rugby league related news Terry Matterson (the Castleford Tigers coach) has lost a finger in an accident in France. He got it caught in a fence while trying to recover a ball.
The best part is his quote "It's not ideal. I'd like to have the finger but a lot worse things happen to you. I was playing table tennis with the boys afterwards."

davet010 wrote:

And more importantly....Super League starts soon ;)

League?!?

*hack*
*spit*

Actually, I know nothing about league, it simply isn't played here. I must read up a bit.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
davet010 wrote:

And more importantly....Super League starts soon ;)

League?!?

*hack*
*spit*

Actually, I know nothing about league, it simply isn't played here. I must read up a bit.

Well imagine union but with 2 less forwards and all the boring bits taken out, you know, like lineouts, endless penalties and kicking, mauls and generally thuggery. Add in pace, people who can pass without it going to ground 2 times out of 3, skill and entertainment.

There, that's rugby league

Sounds like the rugby equivalent to 20/20 cricket. :p

Or, as one of my Union loving colleagues described it

"It's the NFL with 6 downs and no forward passing.."

Unfortunately, being in Manchester I'm a little stuck for a team....Salford remind me too much of them from Old Trafford (shudders), St Helens is too far away and I refuse to have the lobotomy which is required to spend much time in Wigan, though I am quite fond of pies. Yorkshire teams are out (obviously), so I guess I shall keep one out for the Catalan Dragons in my usual contrary way.

Interestingly enough, there was a series running on ESPN over Xmas called the History of Rugby, which while concentrating largely on the 15 man game, did have significant portions on the split between RU and RL around the turn of the 20th century, and also a section on the popularity of RL in pre WW2 France and the collaborationist tactics of French RU teams and officials to essentially squash the game during the war and post-war period.

Some sad news today with the death of veteran BBC rugby commentator Bill McLaren. He'd been involved in rugby for so long I couldn't believe it was 8 years since he retired, even for someone like me who's not a huge RU fan. Another voice from my childhood disappears

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...

league is a simpler version about the game. It is more about possession where union is more about territory. There are more tries in league and it seems that the major criticism of rugby union in Australia is the lack of tries vs league. A member of the team I follow in the league was busted for dealing drugs this year and other players are under investigation so I may need to pretend Australia is taking this year off.

I really like the territorial aspects of Union, take out the line-outs and field kicks and you are left with a bunch of dudes running around grabbing each other. No doubt league is fun to watch and accessible, but there would definitely seem to be something missing.

I remember last years tri-nations, the one NZ/Australia game was being lauded as one of the great tests by the Aussie comentators. To me it looked like schoolboy rugby, especially since neither team could hang on to the ball.

i prefer union to league and agbut I think looks can be decieving. The hits in rugby league are harder because there is no thought of need to get the tackled player into position. You just want to knock them back. Also the tackled player doesn't have to think to play the ball back so there is no reason to stop the momentum at any point. Having an interchange also has a big effect on how fast the big men up front can play.

Thats probably true, but all the good dirt happens in the scrums.

Not necessarily, just ask John Hopoate (aka Stinkfist) for details

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ho...

What's dirty is the golden gloves and cleat fencing you don't see.

I played flanker for 5 years at school - and this was back in the 80's when mauls, clearing out and shoe pie were less obviously policed.

The Super 14 starts soon. Interestingly, the refs have committed to policing various areas of the game more tightly, where things have been allowed to slip. A fetcher is going to have to be a lot more careful, and clear-outs are going to be a bit more gentle.

People have been complaining about the game slowing down and tacklers having too many advantages the way the rules were being blow, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Full story here.

In what smack of an admission of culpability referees have been told to tighten up on the way they blow the breakdown in an effort not only to speed up the game by eliminating the “jacklers” but also to address the most vexed facet of the game – what’s legal at a tackle.
...
The key change is that the tackler will no longer have unfettered rights to the ball because, I can’t resist saying, referees will be “blowing the law as it is written.”
...
Players not making a clean release after the tackle and getting fully to their feet before going for the ball will be penalised.

The result of this should be that the tackled player should have more time to either pop the ball to a support player or to place it while their should be fewer pile-ups caused by the tackler attached, limpit-like, to the ball carrier as well as the overly violent “cleaning out” that has crept into the game.

It turns out that the changes are the result of a meeting last year between referees and three coaches representing the Super 14 teams – Todd Blackadder (Crusaders), Rassie Erasmus (Stormers) and David Nucifora (Brumbies).

The four key areas referees have been told to tighten up on are:

Tackled Ball:

“The tackler, once hitting the ground in the tackle, must release the ball and the ball carrier. This gives the ball carrier a chance to ‘play the ball’, and will tidy up the tackle-ball area which has previously been weighted towards the tackler. As well, any player involved in helping make a tackle, who is in contact with the ball carrier when he is taken to ground, must then release the ball, before then attempting to contest possession, even if he is on his feet. This ensures that in Super 14, we are truly refereeing the Law at the tackle, and it provides the ball carrier with his rights, having been tackled. After this tackle, any player then on his feet, in a position of strength (his side of the tackle) may then contest possession.”

Scrum engagement:

“The scrum engagement must follow a true sequence, starting with all props required to touch, on the touch call. Props must also have their head and shoulders above their hips, and then hit straight on engagement. This enhances the chance of the scrum being contestable, and to stay up resulting in less resets.”

Players in front of the kicker:

“Players will be forced to comply with standing still or retiring in relation to being in front of the kicker. This will see referees calling for a player to stop advancing – if he continues to advance, he will be penalised and players must retire from within 10m of the receiver of a kick – otherwise an immediate penalty will be given where these players look to contest the kick. The objective is that this will improve the time and space for players to counter attack, when receiving kicks in general play, and reducing some of the aerial ping pong people we have been seeing in rugby.”

Formation of the maul:

“At the time that a maul is formed, players supporting the ball carrier will not be allowed to obstruct the opposition. This is intended to at least make the maul defendable at the set up stage.”

Bray said these initiatives are a return to the laws of the game (see my column “It’s just not rugby”) and do not represent any change in law, but are simply limiting room for interpretation and should create clarity and certainty for coaches, players, officials and fans.

It’s a move in the right direction, in theory at least. Let’s see whether the referees are able to stick to their guns in practice because a number of players (refer to my intro) are going to be penalised a great deal if the standard is to be imposed.

davet010 wrote:

I played flanker for 5 years at school - and this was back in the 80's when mauls, clearing out and shoe pie were less obviously policed.

I LOVE busting mauls. If you just split people and disguise a trip you feel LIKE A GOD.

davet010 wrote:

Not necessarily, just ask John Hopoate (aka Stinkfist) for details

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ho...

Well rather that happen then this

Six Nations starts today. I have no idea what that is, but apparently it involves Morgan Freeman.

Prederick wrote:

Six Nations starts today. I have no idea what that is, but apparently it involves Morgan Freeman.

I think it's where the 5 most boring union and France, get together to play each other while wishfully thinking that they knew how to pass. Although England and Wales have just taken up the whole quota of tries for the whole tournament with 5 in one game!

So, i've been watching Six Nations games since I signed up for Setanta-i, and I get them. And it's certainly less confusing than Cricket. However, can someone point me to a "Rugby for Americans" FAQ or guide? And how could England have "edged" the game with Wales if they won by 13 points?

The ESPN site scrum.com has some pretty decent info for the beginner, there is a whole section about laws etc. The Wikipedia entry is also quite good.

13 points isn't a huge margin, it's less than 2 scores. It's possible to score 2 tries and convert them quite quickly, so 15+ points is considered a comfortable margin. And I didn't watch the game, but the scoreline can be deceptive if Wales had a bad bounce or two, or a bad pass that prevented a score.

Hopefully you can watch the Super 14, that is rugby.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

The ESPN site scrum.com has some pretty decent info for the beginner, there is a whole section about laws etc. The Wikipedia entry is also quite good.

13 points isn't a huge margin, it's less than 2 scores. It's possible to score 2 tries and convert them quite quickly, so 15+ points is considered a comfortable margin. And I didn't watch the game, but the scoreline can be deceptive if Wales had a bad bounce or two, or a bad pass that prevented a score.

Hopefully you can watch the Super 14, that is rugby.

That, my friend, is debatable. Without wishing to confuse Pred, referees in the two hemispheres have slightly different rules govening the sport, and also differing interpretations of them. To my mind, Super 14 is a bit like limited overs cricket, but that's a personal preference.

Oh, and Pred...there is another sort of rugby as well...Rugby League.

I'm pretty sure the rules were unified after the Super 14 last year. I do know the refs are going to be more strict with the interpretations this year so there will be more consistency.

davet010 wrote:

Oh, and Pred...there is another sort of rugby as well...Rugby League.

Which is like 20 over cricket. :p

*edit*

Speaking of 20 over cricket. Rugby Sevens is fun to watch. Super short games, all running and passing. It's shallow, but pretty entertaining.

Except that we are the world champions and lagging in 7th on the log.