I know there's a rugby thread down there somewhere, but it's a new season and I really wanted to use this quote as a thread title. 
So the South are running around in Europe at the moment.
New Zealand has beaten Wales unconvincingly, Australia has beaten England more convincingly and the South African B-team lost to Leicester.
The Boks play France on Friday and I'm concerned. We haven't beaten France in France since 1997, our scrum is creaky and our players have been looking tired, and we are missing some key guys. A very weak defender at centre and we will miss Francois Steyn's 60+ m goal kicks and his strength at full-back.
France seem to have done their homework and I think they are going to be fighting fire with fire. Everyone who has lost to the Boks this year has complained that they played the better rugby, yet still went down. I'm pretty sure France is going to be different, they have selected a big pack and have an inexperienced, but hard running centre combination.
I see that Jonny Wilkinson is back for England and that the Aussies used this to their advantage to beat the English gameplay by scoring a try.
On the rare occasion that I can find rugby on TV here in the US, I really enjoy watching it. I don't know the rules too well, but I have a basic understanding. Since accessibility is my biggest hurdle, could someone recommend a good website or podcast that I could look to for news and highlights?
EDIT: A google search for "rugby" turns up, sadly, a Ralph Lauren link at the very top of it's list.
scrum.com is the espn rugby website. I also check out the Rugby Heaven website:http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/. The Guardian and the London Times sports pages have good rugby coverage as well.
Agreed with www.scrum.com, it covers a lot of the sport and has some nice guides and resources for newbies.
The best way to learn the game, imo, is to learn the field positions, which are simple, and watch the sport.
Good game last night between France and SA, DeVil was spot on with the point about goalkicking.
Couldn't get over the number of substitutions as well, at one point most of the French pack seemed to be numbered between 16 and 22. I'm all for interchange to a degree, but this started to look like gridiron.
Sometimes I hate being right. I didnt' actually watch due to lack of satellite TV, but I'm glad, tbh.
Reading the game analysis sounds like it was a very poor show from our guys. Lost the cricket, lost the rugby and our very poor soccer team plays Japan today, not hoping for any joy there.
So, big game for the Boks this weekend. Tri-nations champs vs 6 nations champs, Ireland.
The Irish media has made a big deal about this being a 'grudge match' due to this years B&I Lions eye gouging incident. Unfortunately the Irish media make the team sound like a bunch of graceless whiners, but I'm sure that's not true.
Should be a tough, physical game with a lot of kicking due to windy conditions.
Interesting that the Boks have broken policy and are playing with a few overseas based players, most based in Ireland. Jean DeVilliers is in, and I'm not sure why they didn't just call up Francois Steyn to play full back. He was a revelation with his huge kicks this year.
We also have fortuitous injuries that have led to selections that should have been made in the first place. It's going to be a much tougher Springbok team than the one that lost to France and didn't convince against Italy.
Looking forward to the game.
The rest of the weekends international fixtures.
28 Italy v Samoa Aalborg
28 Scotland v Argentina Edinburgh
28 Ireland v South Africa Croke Park, Dublin
28 Wales v Australia Cardiff
28 France v New Zealand Marseille
Didn't know Rugby was discussed here. Half time here in the game and things not looking good for us even though we are playing all the Rugby.
As far as the eye-gouging goes, the Irish like to play hard but fair and take a dim view violence like that. You would have heard the booing of Bergers Try and that is a direct result of that and nothing to do with the winning of the test series.
Anyho back to the game.
Not bad for a bunch of whiners 
As far as the eye-gouging goes, the Irish like to play hard but fair and take a dim view violence like that. You would have heard the booing of Bergers Try and that is a direct result of that and nothing to do with the winning of the test series.
That's fair enough, but it was found to be accidental contact, rather than a deliberate attack on the eyes. Rugby is a tough game, people do get hurt. Burger was banned for 8 weeks. Time to move on, IMHO.
Not bad for a bunch of whiners :)
Not at all, missed most of the game, but the Irish clearly defended like demons, and played a good territory game. 
A great second half on their part.
And I don't think the players are whiners, just the media. But that's the nature of all media, our team is going to get pilloried tomorrow and Monday.
A mostly great year for South African rugby, but it ended poorly.
Axon wrote:As far as the eye-gouging goes, the Irish like to play hard but fair and take a dim view violence like that. You would have heard the booing of Bergers Try and that is a direct result of that and nothing to do with the winning of the test series.
That's fair enough, but it was found to be accidental contact, rather than a deliberate attack on the eyes. Rugby is a tough game, people do get hurt. Burger was banned for 8 weeks. Time to move on, IMHO.
Axon wrote:Not bad for a bunch of whiners :)
Not at all, missed most of the game, but the Irish clearly defended like demons, and played a good territory game.
And I don't think the players are whiners, just the media.
A mostly great year for South African rugby, but it ended poorly.
Well lets just agree to disagree on the eye-gouging but I can confirm that the Irish players were not happy about it. I myself have been gouged in my time and I think it a pretty cowardly act which is the general view over here.
Moving on, I thought we did well considering the Cian Healy is probably several years off International class scrummaging but that will get better. We are looking quite strong for the 6 Nations next year with serious depth in the squad now. Ourselves, France and to a lesser degree Wales are beginning to close the gap with the sudden hemisphere (some might say its gone) but on the flip side England and Scotland look like there are in Serious trouble which is bad for the game in general. Scotland looks like the have stopped the rot but England's quick-fix mentality of the Zurich league is finally coming home to roost. If there isn't provincial system similar to the rest of the world in England in the next 5 years they are in serious trouble.
Anyho, I mentioned France. New Zealand and France in a rugby match in the South of France. Sweet Zombie Jesus this will be good. The Haka. The Marseilles. Even I'll psyched up by kick off
Well lets just agree to disagree on the eye-gouging but I can confirm that the Irish players were not happy about it. I myself have been gouged in my time and I think it a pretty cowardly act which is the general view over here.
I do agree that gouging is a terrible thing and should be stamped out, as does any South African player or fan, that's why no-one complained about Burger's ban. Even though most people think it was a silly mistake rather than anything deliberate, on his part.
I do also understand why the Irish public and players may be disinclined to forgiveness.
I'm sure winning goes some way to helping the pain though. Nothing like beating the world champs at their own game.
Moving on, I thought we did well considering the Cian Healy is probably several years off International class scrummaging but that will get better. We are looking quite strong for the 6 Nations next year with serious depth in the squad now. Ourselves, France and to a lesser degree Wales are beginning to close the gap with the sudden hemisphere (some might say its gone) but on the flip side England and Scotland look like there are in Serious trouble which is bad for the game in general. Scotland looks like the have stopped the rot but England's quick-fix mentality of the Zurich league is finally coming home to roost. If there isn't provincial system similar to the rest of the world in England in the next 5 years they are in serious trouble.
Agreed there. It's good to see the 'smaller' Northern teams upping their game, the next world cup should be a very interesting thing.
Anyho, I mentioned France. New Zealand and France in a rugby match in the South of France. Sweet Zombie Jesus this will be good. The Haka. The Marseilles. Even I'll psyched up by kick off :)
Should be a cracker. I tend to support south>north, but a French victory will make us look a little better.
I watched the first bit of this, when they were talking about playing in Marseilles as opposed to the Stade Francais as there might actually be some atmosphere then. But one thing struck me for the first time.....why do the All Blacks do the haka away from home ? I can understand them doing it at home with the ritual/territorial challenge bit, but I don't really get why they do it on French soil, for example...and why the other nations let them do it. I'd just love to see someone say 'not on out turf, sunshine', and wade in there at the start.
Odd how I've never really noticed it before.
I do agree that gouging is a terrible thing and should be stamped out, as does any South African player or fan, that's why no-one complained about Burger's ban. Even though most people think it was a silly mistake rather than anything deliberate, on his part.
I do also understand why the Irish public and players may be disinclined to forgiveness.
I'm sure winning goes some way to helping the pain though. Nothing like beating the world champs at their own game.
Didn't hurt
Agreed there. It's good to see the 'smaller' Northern teams upping their game, the next world cup should be a very interesting thing.
I would like to see 6-8 real contenders for the world cup as opposed to the usual 1 or 2. Unfortunately, Wales looked dismal and France need to produce consistency.
Should be a cracker. I tend to support south>north, but a French victory will make us look a little better.
Damn French. One minute they could beat the Universe XV and the next lose to a small school team from Kilmallock. In fairness to the French, they probably need a machine gun emplacement on the gaol line to stop the All Blacks tonight. They looked like a team with a mission and were out for vengeance of the Dunedin result.
The Springboks have issued a request to match citing commisioner, Douglas Hunter from Scotland, reporting an instance of alleged eye gouging against Irish eighth man, Jamie Heaslip, who they believe to have put his finger in Heinrich Brüssow's eye. The incident took place in the first half of the match between the Springboks and Ireland on Saturday at Croke Park.The request from the Bok camp does not necessarily mean that it will be investigated.
Eye gouging is an emotional subject in Ireland given that Springbok flank, Schalk Burger was banned for eight weeks in July after being found guilty of making "improper contact" with Irish player Luke Fitzgerald's eyes during the British and Irish Lions tour to South Africa.
Burger's misdeads have been highlighted on a daily basis by the local media and he was loudly jeered when his name was read out before the match.
He had the crowd silenced for a moment with an early try in the match, and also kicked the ball into the crowd, but eventually the Springboks could not keep their effort alive and were caught from behind for the fourth time on this tour after being ahead at halftime.
I hope the request is taken seriously, although unfair play against the Springboks tends to be ignored. I also hope it's found to be untrue, or accidental, we really don't need more bad blood in the sport.
*edit*
On a lighter note.
The Irish counted in AfrikaansDublin - When Victor Matfield realised at the second lineout of the match that Irish lock, Paul O'Connell, was counting with him in Afrikaans, he could not believe it.
And, he admits, it had the Springboks baffled for a while.
"It was a bad day for us," Matfield said after one of the Boks poorest performances to date in the lineouts. Lineouts have always been one of the Boks' strengths.
"After the second lineout we discovered that Gert (Smal) had to have given the Irish some Afrikaans lessons, because they could read the calls. We tried to change things thereafter, which did not work either. In the second half, it went slightly better, but this was the worst lineout contest I have ever had in my life," said Matfield after his team lost 10-15 to Ireland.
Smal had been involved in South African rugby for the last decade before he was snatched up to become Ireland's forwards coach. This has come back to bite the Boks' heels rather unexpectedly.
"Gert knows our lineouts very well, but we thought that we could get away from that with Afrikaans calls," said Matfield.
Guess we can't rely on a totally unique language for secrecy anymore, they're going to need to code the calls better.
I hope the request is taken seriously, although unfair play against the Springboks tends to be ignored. I also hope it's found to be untrue, or accidental, we really don't need more bad blood in the sport.
Well, lets see the video evidence then or at the very least the maul/ruck it is alleged to have occurred in. I would be disgusted at any Irish player resorting to any such tactic but I will add that I do know Jamie personally, played with him as well, and would be very surprised if he did. Lets just wait and see.
You really think the Springboks get the rough end of the stick when it comes to unfair play? OK then. I can't speak for the Ozzies or the Kiwis but up here that statement would raise and eyebrow or two
Guess we can't rely on a totally unique language for secrecy anymore, they're going to need to code the calls better.
South Africans have been playing up here for quite a while.Mike Catt played for England for years and in several World Cups, for example. If the Springboks were relying on the uniqueness of Afrikaans for their lineout calls then that was really very silly.
You really think the Springboks get the rough end of the stick when it comes to unfair play? OK then. I can't speak for the Ozzies or the Kiwis but up here that statement would raise and eyebrow or two :)
Nah, people push the envelope from all sides. But in all honesty, without any partisan fervor, some tackles on South African players during the Tri-nations were appallingly blatant.
Hitting the jumper in the air, shoulder charges, all sorts of shenanigans took place and were totally disregarded by the citing commissioners. Yet a legal clear out of a ruck by Bakkies Botha got a ban, even though he was cleared out of the same ruck in an identical manner not 3 seconds later.
Some say his action was illegal, then the rules need to be applied consistently.
You will never hear the players mention these events though, that's not how they roll. Although they did eventually have the armband protest that caused such a stir.
MrDeVil909 wrote:Guess we can't rely on a totally unique language for secrecy anymore, they're going to need to code the calls better.
South Africans have been playing up here for quite a while.Mike Catt played for England for years and in several World Cups, for example. If the Springboks were relying on the uniqueness of Afrikaans for their lineout calls then that was really very silly.
Yeah, I'm sure they are coded, but Gert Smal was intrinsic to the Springbok forwards training under Jake White, so he knows the routine better than anyone else alive. Time for a rethink.
There's a bit of controversy at the moment over the Springbok conditioning. They seem to be lacking in stamina, which is very concerning.
Hitting the jumper in the air, shoulder charges, all sorts of shenanigans took place and were totally disregarded by the citing commissioners. Yet a legal clear out of a ruck by Bakkies Botha got a ban, even though he was cleared out of the same ruck in an identical manner not 3 seconds later.
Jumpers get f*cked over all the time. You have to throw elbows up there while running your call and with a whole pack ready to kill you when you get near the ground.
You really think the Springboks get the rough end of the stick when it comes to unfair play? OK then. I can't speak for the Ozzies or the Kiwis but up here that statement would raise and eyebrow or two
yeah you would get some raised eyebrows in Australia for sure as well.
Ok then, seeing as this is the official rugby thread, lets switch focus from the November Internationals to the European Cup. I'm sure you down unders won't mind seeing as your season is over. Round 3 kicks off this week and with Round 4 following next week it really shapes the future for many teams in Europe.
So lets take a look at the line up
12/12/09 15:00 P1 Northampton Saints v Benetton Treviso
11/12/09 20:00 P1 Munster v Perpignan Thomond Park
11/12/09 19:30 P2 Glasgow Warriors v Gloucester Rugby
13/12/09 13:45 P2 Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque v Newport Gwent Dragons
12/12/09 14:30 P3 Viadana v Ospreys
13/12/09 16:00 P3 ASM Clermont Auvergne v Leicester Tigers
13/12/09 15:00 P4 Bath Rugby v Edinburgh
12/12/09 13:35 P4 Ulster Rugby v Stade Francais Paris
12/12/09 15:45 P5 Cardiff Blues v Toulouse
13/12/09 12:45 P5 Harlequins v Sale Sharks
12/12/09 18:00 P6 Scarlets v Leinster
12/12/09 19:00 P6 Brive v London Irish
Munster will probably have their pool sown up by next week and Biarritz are probably certain of a home quarter final even at this stage. Pool 3 is anyone's but Clermont and Leicester will be a huge battle, game of the weekend no doubt. Can Ulster get out of the group stages and join the other Irish provinces in our dominance of Europe? This weekend against the pink attired Stade will answer that question.
Can't help but feel everyone else is making up the numbers with Toulouse in Pool 4 although I'd love to see Cardiff get a little more from the competition. Finally the group of death is anyone's to play for and frankly impossible to call.
So the match to watch if you are neutral is Clermont v Leicester @ 16:00 CET.
MrDeVil909 wrote:Hitting the jumper in the air, shoulder charges, all sorts of shenanigans took place and were totally disregarded by the citing commissioners. Yet a legal clear out of a ruck by Bakkies Botha got a ban, even though he was cleared out of the same ruck in an identical manner not 3 seconds later.
Jumpers get f*cked over all the time. You have to throw elbows up there while running your call and with a whole pack ready to kill you when you get near the ground.
Yeah, that's part of the game, but when the chaser puts his head down and sweeps the legs without even pretending to challenge for the ball it is a serious offense. Our poor scrum-half, Fourie Dupreez has developed a baldspot from being dumped on his head so many times during the Tri Nations.
Ok then, seeing as this is the official rugby thread, lets switch focus from the November Internationals to the European Cup. I'm sure you down unders won't mind seeing as your season is over.
It should be pretty interesting to learn a bit about the Northern competitions a bit. Are those 24 teams the full complement?
On a side note, anyone find Richie McCaw's selection as IRB Player of the Year a little odd? He's a great player and captain, but he spent most of the year injured and came back to lose the Tri-Nations. I would think that Fourie Dupreez or Brian O'Driscoll would be better candidates, they were central to their teams winning their relative competitions.
Yep, its the full complement. The Celtic League (Ireland, Scotland and Wales), The Premiership, Top 14 (France) and Super 10 (Italy) are the domestic competitions. I'm not too keen to cover all those :). European Cup is the club competition though.
I think McCaw won it because Ireland and South Africa got Coach and Team of the year. In my mind O'Driscoll was head and shoulders above anyone else but he won it before which went against him. Never underestimate politics coming into play with the IRB.
Yep, its the full complement. The Celtic League (Ireland, Scotland and Wales), The Premiership, Top 14 (France) and Super 10 (Italy) are the domestic competitions. I'm not too keen to cover all those :). European Cup is the club competition though.
So similar to the Super 14, cool, should be interesting to follow.
I think McCaw won it because Ireland and South Africa got Coach and Team of the year. In my mind O'Driscoll was head and shoulders above anyone else but he won it before which went against him. Never underestimate politics coming into play with the IRB.
That was my feeling as well, actually. The All Blacks had to get something in their worst year in a long time, so give them Player of the Year. I do think McCaw is great, but not this time.
Some nastiness on the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE9Ze2Qq1UQ&feature=player_embedded
Some nastiness on the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE9Ze2Qq1UQ&feature=player_embedded
O.O
Wow, that is pretty terrible. Life ban stuff that.
On a lighter note, I'm busy reading Captain in the Cauldron, John Smit's autobiography. It's very interesting stuff, he really doesn't pull punches regarding screw-ups by sport administrators even though he still works for some of them.
*edit*
Some other cool news.
Argentina and Namibia to be represented in the Vodacom Cup. Basically our provincial second division.
Argentina will field a “very competitive” squad comprising a number of international players when they take the field in their first Vodacom Cup competition next season.While they may not have the services of their European stars, local fans will be able to see a number of players who have already played test rugby in their ranks.
SARU last week announced that as part of their outreach programme to Argentina, a team would compete in next year’s Vodacom Cup in the Southern Section, while Namibia would be competing in the northern section of the competition.
According to Argentinean Sevens manager Juan Garcia Iturralde, an announcement of the squad is likely later this month and South Africa will host a strong Argentinean side in the tournament.
Garcia Iturralde is well-versed in the planning of the team, and is ironically the brother-in-law of Sharks flyhalf Juan Martin Hernandes, and believes that his country’s entry into the Vodacom Cup will provide a platform for young players to experience international rugby and improve the standard of the game in his country.
The team will not be known as Los Pumas and according to Garcia Iturralde not even as the Jaguars – the traditional name for the second stringers. Rather, a new identity will be launched along with the coaching staff later this week and the team will begin their training regime on January 11.
But what sort of squad can South Africans expect to see in the competition in the coming months.
“They will be mostly locally based players, but they will all be part of the new system that the Argentinean Rugby Union has put into place. It is comparable to an academy. They are a regiment of semi-professional players who are getting paid and do train every day. But they also continue with their jobs and studies part time,” Garcia Iturralde told SuperSport.com
“Many of the players will have played in the Autumn internationals for Argentina in Europe in November. Players such as Santiago Fernandes, who played at flyhalf, for instance, will be part of the squad There are a lot of players who played for the Pumas in the last tour that will be here.”
Others that South Africans can expect to see in action are the likes of fullback Martin Bustos Moyano, centre Horacio San Martin and winger Mauro Comuzzi. Only the foreign-based players are likely to be excluded when the team is named.
While South Africa’s top 150 players will be busy with the Super 14, Argentina still expects to find tough games to hone its players skills.
“I think we will have a very competitive team. I know that even without the top 150 players, South Africa has enough depth in their rugby and the teams that they will fill will be strong. Argentina will be able to put a strong team into the championship.
“We know we need competition and we know we need to compete against the big three of World Rugby. It may not be enough to get us onto that level but it is the first step. With someone like Hernades already playing for the Sharks, it is a big step to have Argentina already experiencing what a Super 14 championship will be like.”
“If we look ahead to the 2012 Tri Nations (where Argentina will join the tournament), the more Argentinean players that receive a chance to experience this level of play, the better for our rugby. I think this is a good start. Hopefully we can get more competition against top teams but we need to play against the Springboks more often to improve our rugby.”
Garcia Iturralde says there is “a lot of excitement” about the opportunity that SARU have created for the South Americans and that they are “forever grateful” .
“Argentinean rugby will always be thankful to South Africa. They have always helped to develop the game there and the rugby people are excited back home about this possibility. We will prepare professionally and hope our players will improve their skills in the competition.”
“Three months in South Africa sharing ideas and talking rugby will do us well,” he added.
The team is likely to follow the same game plan as the national side in the Vodacom Cup.
I feel that the growth of Rugby Union is really brilliant, and South Africa seems to be working hard to try aid this.
Six month ban for Julien Dupuy. The Stade Francais boss, Max Guazzini, says the penalty is political and anti-French. http://www.scrum.com/europeancup/rug...
Well now, I guess even rugby has been invaded by the spin doctors. I suggest Mr. Guazzini have another look at the video posted above. I haven't seen a more blatant example of eye gouging.
Stade Francais and Ulster play again tomorrow in Brussels. I will definitely have to PVR that one.
Say what you will about Stade Francais, they look good in those jerseys.
Has anyone seen Invictus yet? I've read the book and I'm curious as to how the two compare.
And without them?
http://boutique.stade.fr/boutique_us...
Only the French.
Damn you. Fortunately, you have an awesome avatar.
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