How to pick an e-reader?

trip1eX wrote:

It's a workaround. I'll have to read more about Savory. But a quick glance gives me a few reservations. Folks want to keep the docs in the pdf format. Problems with pdfs with images too from the looks of it. Bugs too.

And that's only half the problem.

Look at the Amazon reviews on the DX. According to those PDF support isn't ready for primetime and the DX natively supports PDFs.

No zooming in is a big complaint. I imagine (the lack of that) would be worse on the regular 'ole Kindle.

PDF support on any device isn't ready for the primetime, but for what's available, Savory seems as up to the job as anything supported natively thus far.

trip1eX wrote:
unntrlaffinity wrote:
trip1eX wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

The Kindle is to E-books what the iPod was before Apple went open standard, DRM free.

The analogy doesn't quite work.

Ipod could read the more popular music formats other than its own. Cds and mp3s were fair game.

The Kindle can read .txt, .mobi, and .doc, arguably three of the more popular text formats that aren't .azw. And many PDFs and ePub files can be converted into .mobi, with no more effort than ripping an audio CD to .mp3 would entail.

Yeah it's different though.

You had to rip audio cds. You didn't want an iPod to also be an optical disc player. The pdf barrier is artificial.

And a cd is an hour worth of music that you will listen to over and over and over.

A pdf might be 3 pages that will take you 3 minutes to read. Pain in the ass to spend a minute or two converting it.

It's still a valid analogy. Especially as CDs became less and less popular, in lieu of digital formats. Substitute "CD" for ".wma", ".ogg", ".flac", or any other format (did the original iPod support .wav? I can't remember.) It wasn't always just .mp3, but I'm pretty sure you realize that.

Although if you want to quibble over artificial barriers, compare it to the use of video formats on the iPod, or the Zune for that matter.

For me, one big thing would be using the reader to read, edit, and note cases from West or Lexis, the stylus on the Sony Reader and native PDF support is a must. More importantly, moving the files back and forth and then print notes for use. The problem is Amazon has the convenience I want, Sony seems to have the functionality I want. I demand a third party.

KingGorilla wrote:

For me, one big thing would be using the reader to read, edit, and note cases from West or Lexis, the stylus on the Sony Reader and native PDF support is a must. More importantly, moving the files back and forth and then print notes for use. The problem is Amazon has the convenience I want, Sony seems to have the functionality I want. I demand a third party.

If that's what you're trying to do, currently I don't think any ereader device has the functionality you want. It won't be fast enough, trust me. For reading, it's fine, but if you use Lexis or West at all like I do, you do a lot of skimming. And you'll skim a page way more quickly than the refresh rate will satisfy, and the touch interfaces won't be nearly responsive enough.

From what you're describing I think what you're looking for is one of the tablet devices that haven't quite exited the development phase. That or just a tiny, touch-screen, tablet laptop. So there's your third party. Or Apple, Microsoft, and possibly Asus and the makers of the "Crunchpad".

trip1eX wrote:

Barnes&Noble's upcoming eReader.
IMAGE(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/10/500x_2VIEWS_01.jpg)

Interesting. There's a small color lcd touchscreen on the bottom with the rest being a regular e-ink screen.

Made by Plastic Logic.

They're saying a price of $259, removable battery, support for ePub, Fictionwise, and PDF, and a microSD card slot. All excellent features that set it apart from the Kindle 2. And it's based on Android (does that mean anything? Anyone? I'm not familiar with why that'd be a positive or a negative.)

The feature I'd actually like to see most for the Amazon Kindle Store is to be informed when an item in my regular wishlist has a Kindle edition available, instead of my having to maintain two separate wishlists, one for Kindle books, and one for regular books. And even then, I have to add the paper copy of the book to my Kindle wishlist, because you can't add Kindle editions to a wishlist. Which seems idiotic.

And this:

And the eBooks purchased from BN.com will sync between your nook and other reading devices with the Barnes & Noble eReader app, so you always return to the last page you read.

Also, this little tidbit, besides being able to share or lend (I didn't notice it before, but when you lend a book, you won't be able to read it again until it "expires", kind of like using the library. An interesting compromise for licensing issues) books:

Perhaps the biggest advantage the Nook will have in the e-reader market is its retail support. With more than 700 stores, 40,000 retail representatives, and a site that is one of the top 20 on the Web, the company is in a great position to reach readers. Bring a Nook into a Barnes & Noble and you will be able to access customized content via Wi-Fi. You will also have access to the complete text of every book in the firm's eBook store – albeit only while you are in the store.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354518,00.asp

unntrlaffinity wrote:

It's still a valid analogy. Especially as CDs became less and less popular, in lieu of digital formats. Substitute "CD" for ".wma", ".ogg", ".flac", or any other format (did the original iPod support .wav? I can't remember.) It wasn't always just .mp3, but I'm pretty sure you realize that.

Although if you want to quibble over artificial barriers, compare it to the use of video formats on the iPod, or the Zune for that matter.

What were we talking about again?

OH yeah.

I guess my point is when you got an IPod back when it first came out,... you weren't annoyed about it not supporting formats or having to convert to a certain format. You were dam happy you could convert your existing cds and do so easily. And mp3 was the dominant digital format by far. And it worked on the iPod. At least that's how I remember things.

Kindle? I am annoyed about it not supporting certain formats like pdf which is a major publishing format. Or having to jump through hoops to support it with a 3rd party program. Or having support, but not 100% compatibility.

Another big difference. With an Ipod you didn't worry about not getting a certain song or album on the iPod. EVerything was released on cd worst case. You worry about that with the Kindle. Not all books are available in the ebook format.

Another difference is I think you could always get around Apple's DRM scheme by burning music to a cd, couldn't you? Not sure if the process of going to cd and back hurt the quality or how bad it hurt it, but that option was always there or there very early on.

And of course you could always avoid DRM by purchasing a cd. No analogous option with Kindle.

You want an ebook? Amazon is probably your only route.

So not sure the analogy works.

I am excited about this space though. Can't wait to see how it grows.

trip1eX wrote:

Kindle? I am annoyed about it not supporting certain formats like pdf which is a major publishing format. Or having to jump through hoops to support it with a 3rd party program. Or having support, but not 100% compatibility.

Another big difference. With an Ipod you didn't worry about not getting a certain song or album on the iPod. EVerything was released on cd worst case. You worry about that with the Kindle. Not all books are available in the ebook format.

Another difference is I think you could always get around Apple's DRM scheme by burning music to a cd, couldn't you? Not sure if the process of going to cd and back hurt the quality or how bad it hurt it, but that option was always there or there very early on.

And of course you could always avoid DRM by purchasing a cd. No analogous option with Kindle.

You want an ebook? Amazon is probably your only route.

So not sure the analogy works.

I am excited about this space though. Can't wait to see how it grows.

The analogy only ceases to work inasmuch as the markets are different (and especially the original music/CD market versus the current music market), not really because of device functionality or the theories and concepts behind the discussion. And while having the CD available is definitely an option in a way that having the paper books available are not, I think that now a person is much more likely to find a "ripped" copy of a CD than they are to actually purchase a physical disc, if they're MP3 fiends. So if an eBook isn't available, and you want to read it on your device, you're likely to just find a pirated copy online rather than go to the trouble of scanning it, or even grumbling about it's lack of availability in ebook format.

From a consumer standpoint, Apple's restrictive DRM and store is limiting in the same way Amazon's DRM and store is limiting, with artificial barriers (that they eventually relented on). And the .azw DRM can be circumvented too, but yeah, it's an annoying step.

But the existence of the Savory program means that statements such as "You want an ebook? Amazon is probably your only route" because suddenly ePub and PDF, and .doc are all available. And sites like Feedbooks have all sorts of public domain works available in .mobi, which it natively supports. So the analogy of the analogy not working, is what doesn't work (okay, that's just me trying to be pedantic.)

The news coming out on the Nook is sexy. It has piqued my interest for now. My major concern is finding one.

In a round-about way, B and N may have just found a way to get them out of Bankruptcy, and keep a few stores open.

I also get your point about using it for cases. But I could never use a tablet. Way too high a cost, sacrificing usability. And I want to get away from doing so much reading off an LCD.

Plus, I printed two cases last night, 40 pages for them, with keys and headnotes. Not just for the green reasons, but for convenience and weight, having an e-reader for that would be very nice. If the Nook or Sony reader can load pages as fast as my web browser, I can live with that. If it is like waiting for a Polaroid to develop, not so much. And with Sony's or the Nook's touch scrolling, it seems that skimming is a tick easier. But I can actually test drive the Nook before I plop down any money, and that is really cool.

I added the Kindle app to an itouch last night and downloaded a free novel off of Amazon. Very easy and the wireless worked great. After reading a few chapters of the novel, I decided that reading off a 3.5 inch screen is not something that can substitute for a paperback, but it's very convenient. I wouldn't want to do all my reading on it, but it's an alternative to a dedicated E-readers in a lot of situations.

One thing I liked about it: backlit screen+adjustable typesize made it easy to read in dim light.

Amazon is ditching the U.S. only eReader and has dropped the price of the international version (now the only version) to $259. If you bought it at the higher price, they're automatically issuing a $20 refund.

Also, the refurbished Kindles seem to have disappeared from the storefront, and the "2" moniker has be dropped. Now the international Kindle is the only Kindle. Which is actually kind of clever.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/international-kindle-price-drop-us-version-killed-off/

I think feature for feature, the Nook is still in the lead. However, opening up the formats, and a few other adjustments could easily win me over in lieu of copying the LCD navigation bar.

I have a Kindle, but I think I am going to pick up the Nook. I like the Fictionwise support, the lending possibilities, plus the color screen seems like a very nice touch. My only concern is the financial health of B&N - I'd hate to buy this thing only for them to go sneakers up in a year.

I dunno, I have a hard time getting all excited by "Look, it reads all the public domain and non DRM'd books!" arguments when what I HONESTLY want to do is read the next book from (insert one of 20 well known authors here) the day it comes out.

I have really been happy with the Kindle and the 9.95 day of release pricing etc... That being said the fact that the Nook will support pdb files (which means eReader.com and Fictionwise), ePub, native PDF, etc... really opens up the utility of the Nook. Fictionwise has some phenomenal deals and while books published from them wont show up in the gucci color screen, the fact that you can use them is a bonus. I like the fact that it uses Android as well - that leaves open some significant capability due to the open architecture (I suspect a fairly decent web browsing client). If anyone picks up one before Christmas let me know how you like it.

SpyNavy wrote:

If anyone picks up one before Christmas let me know how you like it.

I will. My big thing is that anything I buy at Amazon, ties me to the Kindle because it is a proprietary file format. But if I get a Nook, I can buy from B & N, Sony, raid the Guttenberg Project, Ebooks.com, and so forth. And then if Sony comes out with better player in a couple years, or Amazon opens up, or Apple, Microsoft, Asus, whatever I can swap without leaving any purchases behind.

rabbit wrote:

I dunno, I have a hard time getting all excited by "Look, it reads all the public domain and non DRM'd books!" arguments when what I HONESTLY want to do is read the next book from (insert one of 20 well known authors here) the day it comes out.

Support for ePub is more than just non-DRM and public domain. Amazon bought Mobipocket awhile back, so they own it. If Amazon got on board with ePub, it would be an international standardized format that could lead the way for making your content mobile. And it does support DRM, so you could possibly do things like "lend" books, receive support for library checkouts, and any number of other opportunities across devices. It feels a lot like .docx vs. .odf, "open" standard vs. "open standard".

And I think predictions of Barnes & Noble's doom are premature. It's definitely feeling the hit, like most retailers, but eBooks are a space they could make strides in. Especially if college textbooks become more popular as eBooks. Most colleges I've visited in the past 4 or 5 years now have their bookstores run and owned by Barnes & Noble. And you can't discount those relationships. Textbook companies could very well feel more comfortable with the people who handle a huge portion of their sales already.

I'm not sure how many titles they're offering compared to Amazon, but considering that the traditional book market still dwarfs eBooks, it's not hard to imagine publishers hedging their bets and selling their eBook editions through both. I doubt any publisher or any number of 20 well known authors are committed to limiting their sales based on loyalty to a single company or service like Amazon or B&N.

Amazon is a huge company now, but B&N is still a billion dollar company, and it's primary focus is still books.

(Not meaning to come off as lecturing and stating the obvious. I'm a happy Kindle owner, but there's so much more digital formats and devices that support them can accomplish that Amazon so far isn't investing in.)

The whole market is still developing. Witness The Gathering Storm, which is available digitally from neither from B&N nor Amazon--but you can already get it as an audio book.

Well I am definitely getting a nook. The additional format support is pretty much solidifying my decision. Post your thoughts since I will have to wait for Christmas for mine.

Kurrelgyre wrote:

The whole market is still developing. Witness The Gathering Storm, which is available digitally from neither from B&N nor Amazon--but you can already get it as an audio book.

That's the most irritating thing. What use is the device if you can't get pretty much everything you want? I did a similar exercise recently. I bought two books at B&N. Upon checking, one wasn't available for Nook or Kindle and one was free on Nook and 80 cents cheaper than the paperback on Kindle. Meh.

ColdForged wrote:
Kurrelgyre wrote:

The whole market is still developing. Witness The Gathering Storm, which is available digitally from neither from B&N nor Amazon--but you can already get it as an audio book.

That's the most irritating thing. What use is the device if you can't get pretty much everything you want? I did a similar exercise recently. I bought two books at B&N. Upon checking, one wasn't available for Nook or Kindle and one was free on Nook and 80 cents cheaper than the paperback on Kindle. Meh.

It's reminiscent of, dare I say, the PSP Go in this respect.

I do not necessarilly see this as completely ending me buying paper books. Any more than Steam stopped me getting games on DVD-sometimes Amazon or GoGamer have insane sales.

But on classic literature alone, this purchase will pay for itself.

ColdForged wrote:

Upon checking, one wasn't available for Nook or Kindle and one was free on Nook and 80 cents cheaper than the paperback on Kindle. Meh.

Don't look at the prices on popular hardcovers coming out this month from Amazon and Walmart. $9.

I may have missed this bit of info on these pages, but I read, that they e-readers support formats like .doc, etc. I'm wondering, if you can only buy/download books from certain places, or can you just upload a document from your computer to it? A friend of mine wrote a long story once, and I can't bring myself to sit at the screen, and read it, and I'm hoping an e-reader would help there.

The availability of books here is ridiculous. Trying to find a translated book is less possible, than finding it in English, which is also impossible.
I used to order them online, but everywhere in Europe the e-prices are too high, and from the US Amazon they are cheap, but also take 1-2 months to arrive, whereas from Amazon.de it only takes a week.
I can only see getting an e-reader as an option.

Denny wrote:

I may have missed this bit of info on these pages, but I read, that they e-readers support formats like .doc, etc. I'm wondering, if you can only buy/download books from certain places, or can you just upload a document from your computer to it? A friend of mine wrote a long story once, and I can't bring myself to sit at the screen, and read it, and I'm hoping an e-reader would help there.

Most offer both options (licensed content and transferable content), although formats may be limited. Some readers read Mobipocket, some ePub, and some damn near everything.

Amazon has a surcharge for using their wireless service to purchase a book when traveling (or residing) outside the U.S. Perhaps that's how they're addressing international licensing issues.

However, I don't see anything that would stop you from signing up for an American Amazon account and downloading the books manually and transferring them via USB.

That must be a good friend, to consider dropping $200+ to read his story.

If your document is mainly typed text, converting any file to a format your eReader can handle is relatively easy.

In other fun news: Barnes & Noble sued over Nook Design.

There's definitely a resemblance, and I know you can patent damn near everything now (including finger gestures, which is idiotic), but other than the concept itself (using an LCD screen), the Nook seems to have improved on a lot of the functions. So they might have stolen the concept, but I'm not sure you can patent the general idea like that, especially if you can't prove they're using your code or schematics.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

There's definitely a resemblance, and I know you can patent damn near everything now (including finger gestures, which is idiotic), but other than the concept itself (using an LCD screen), the Nook seems to have improved on a lot of the functions. So they might have stolen the concept, but I'm not sure you can patent the general idea like that, especially if you can't prove they're using your code or schematics.

The issue is that evidently Spring was in discussions with B&N, signed NDAs, and have shown them early prototypes. According to Spring, B&N took a gander at prototypes, then stood them up, stole the idea, and went to bed with Que.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
unntrlaffinity wrote:

There's definitely a resemblance, and I know you can patent damn near everything now (including finger gestures, which is idiotic), but other than the concept itself (using an LCD screen), the Nook seems to have improved on a lot of the functions. So they might have stolen the concept, but I'm not sure you can patent the general idea like that, especially if you can't prove they're using your code or schematics.

The issue is that evidently Spring was in discussions with B&N, signed NDAs, and have shown them early prototypes. According to Spring, B&N took a gander at prototypes, then stood them up, stole the idea, and went to bed with Que.

Right. Which is a dick move, but not necessarily illegal unless the concept itself can be protected (my knowledge of what NDAs cover is limited to non-existent) or they can prove B&N wasn't developing something similar already. I mean, it's conceivable that the two units could have been in production at the same time, considering their announcement and release schedules.

I don't think they were, personally, but it is possible.

ColdForged wrote:
Kurrelgyre wrote:

The whole market is still developing. Witness The Gathering Storm, which is available digitally from neither from B&N nor Amazon--but you can already get it as an audio book.

That's the most irritating thing. What use is the device if you can't get pretty much everything you want? I did a similar exercise recently. I bought two books at B&N. Upon checking, one wasn't available for Nook or Kindle and one was free on Nook and 80 cents cheaper than the paperback on Kindle. Meh.

Yes but then I wait till most everything is in mass market paperback anyways, and by then if I cant find an e-book for it in a store there are many other ways to find, other digital copies of the books. Or in some cases where the authors have refused to put the books in e-book format I.E. the Harry Potter Series which I have to say I like(you can mock me all you want but its a nice easy read)

I am now torn between the Nook and The E-Reader by Sony. I can see both ups and down to both. I think one of the biggest ups for the Nook is that there are tons of B&N's up here in the seattle area and one right down the hill from my house, one a few miles from work and in or close to all the malls around here a BIG plus when it says you can read all their e-books free when in their stores. However the EReader does have .txt file compatibility but I can always convert it to .pdf. However Sony doesnt have expandable memory and only has 512mb where as the Nook has 2gig built in and can hold up to a 16gig MicroSD card for pretty much unlimited books and lots of options.

The other think I like about the Nook is its OS. Android is an Open Source OS as compared to the Kindle and Sony's which use proprietary OS's. I am not saying there is anything bad about either since Amazon must be doing something right since until recently they have cornered the market. Android is also relitivly new so you do have to take it slow with it.

Has anybody tried their hand at Sony's or B&N's?

Denny wrote:

I may have missed this bit of info on these pages, but I read, that they e-readers support formats like .doc, etc. I'm wondering, if you can only buy/download books from certain places, or can you just upload a document from your computer to it? A friend of mine wrote a long story once, and I can't bring myself to sit at the screen, and read it, and I'm hoping an e-reader would help there.

Mobipocket offers a "converter" suite that allows you to take HTML, DOC, TXT and turn them into Kindle-friendly .prc files. I use this thing constantly.

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/downloa...

Caliber also offers a pretty significant conversion and transfer package. I use it all the time to convert stuff and transfer over to my Kindle. The database/list function is pretty robust as well when you have hundreds of books you own, read, want to read etc...

SpyNavy or SommerMatt do either of those programs work for mac? If not then they are out for me

Matokin wrote:

SpyNavy or SommerMatt do either of those programs work for mac? If not then they are out for me

Says it supports OS X. I am not a Mac guy so I cant tell you about that flavor.

calibre is a one stop solution to all your e-book needs. It is free, open source and cross-platform in design and works well on Linux, OS X and Windows. calibre is meant to be a complete e-library solution and thus includes library management, format conversion, news feeds to ebook conversion, as well as e-book reader sync features and an integrated e-book viewer.