Sons of Anarchy Catch-All (*Spoilers*)

Old Man Pi wrote:
Lucky Wilbury wrote:
Spoiler:

I've gotten that vibe a few times during the Clay/Gemma talks. The thing that I got off the Gemma reading from the manuscript was that of regret, like she hasn't always been acting on the best of intentions. Was it ever stated how Jax's dad dies?

Spoiler:

He was hit by a truck if I recall correctly. They mention it near the beginning of season 1

I don't think that's much of a spoiler, it seemed all along that Jax's father had a change of heart shortly before his death. I mean, it's even in the title of the manuscript. Him being a goody-goody wouldn't make for a very interesting season 3 of revelations, but as a guy who started the club with the best intentions (even if he didn't understand them), corrupted his own vision, and only realized it when it was too late... that's kind of an interesting tale to tell.

unntrlaffinity wrote:
Old Man Pi wrote:
Lucky Wilbury wrote:
Spoiler:

I've gotten that vibe a few times during the Clay/Gemma talks. The thing that I got off the Gemma reading from the manuscript was that of regret, like she hasn't always been acting on the best of intentions. Was it ever stated how Jax's dad dies?

Spoiler:

He was hit by a truck if I recall correctly. They mention it near the beginning of season 1

I don't think that's much of a spoiler, it seemed all along that Jax's father had a change of heart shortly before his death. I mean, it's even in the title of the manuscript. Him being a goody-goody wouldn't make for a very interesting season 3 of revelations, but as a guy who started the club with the best intentions (even if he didn't understand them), corrupted his own vision, and only realized it when it was too late... that's kind of an interesting tale to tell.

I'm thinking less and less that his change of heart got him killed, whereas previously, I was sure it had.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
unntrlaffinity wrote:
Old Man Pi wrote:
Lucky Wilbury wrote:
Spoiler:

I've gotten that vibe a few times during the Clay/Gemma talks. The thing that I got off the Gemma reading from the manuscript was that of regret, like she hasn't always been acting on the best of intentions. Was it ever stated how Jax's dad dies?

Spoiler:

He was hit by a truck if I recall correctly. They mention it near the beginning of season 1

I don't think that's much of a spoiler, it seemed all along that Jax's father had a change of heart shortly before his death. I mean, it's even in the title of the manuscript. Him being a goody-goody wouldn't make for a very interesting season 3 of revelations, but as a guy who started the club with the best intentions (even if he didn't understand them), corrupted his own vision, and only realized it when it was too late... that's kind of an interesting tale to tell.

I'm thinking less and less that his change of heart got him killed, whereas previously, I was sure it had.

I am not so sure on that. I think that if Clay had killed a brother before then that deal with Opie last season would not have been as hard.

He didn't seem to struggle with the decision too much from my perspective...

WipEout wrote:

He didn't seem to struggle with the decision too much from my perspective...

I think he was looking out for the club first and it wasnt till he saw the repercutions of his actions that he struggled with what he'd done.

OK maybe i have played way to many MMOs, but this show always makes me think of a guild/clan with the way they do things.

Clay is the guild leader that started or helped start everything and when the guy that was his right hand decides to move on (or dies in SoA's case) he digs in and keeps doing what he's used to trying to keep things going. Jax is the new guy who comes in and tries to help out and sees things from a new perspective and is used to hanging out with the new guys and hears the grumblings and complaints about the old leader. Tries to help steer things in a new direction to let everyone in on the fun, but butts heads against the leader over and over again about how.

*shrug* i'm drunk and it's late, but right now it makes sense.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'm thinking less and less that his change of heart got him killed, whereas previously, I was sure it had.

Agreed, Jax's dad seems like he was an out-of-control bastard who realized the errors of his ways after someone tried to kill him.

ranalin wrote:

OK maybe i have played way to many MMOs, but this show always makes me think of a guild/clan with the way they do things.

Clay is the guild leader that started or helped start everything and when the guy that was his right hand decides to move on (or dies in SoA's case) he digs in and keeps doing what he's used to trying to keep things going. Jax is the new guy who comes in and tries to help out and sees things from a new perspective and is used to hanging out with the new guys and hears the grumblings and complaints about the old leader. Tries to help steer things in a new direction to let everyone in on the fun, but butts heads against the leader over and over again about how.

*shrug* i'm drunk and it's late, but right now it makes sense.

Nerd! Drunk nerd!

This is basically a set of standards/archetypes of old vs. new, and, you know, Hamlet.

I'm pretty sure Jax's dad was the original founder, since it's the Sons of "Anarchy" and the Emma Goldman quote inspired him. Plus, Jax was raised in the club, so he's not really seeing things from a new perspective (except through his dad's diary, a new element). It's more of a generational gap story. Young buck challenges the old stag.

unntrlaffinity wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'm thinking less and less that his change of heart got him killed, whereas previously, I was sure it had.

Agreed, Jax's dad seems like he was an out-of-control bastard who realized the errors of his ways after someone tried to kill him.

What I think now is a likely scenario, is that John's growing paranoia and violence against his own, including his wife, drove Gemma to Clay, and they quite rightly feared the repercussions of John finding out, so they took action, or John did find out, and the resulting confrontation ended in his death, occurring in such a way that Gemma and Clay felt compelled to hide the truth. I think it's noteworthy that Jax always talks good game, but his temper is too strong for him to follow through (he was all about not brawling with the Nazis in the streets, until they knocked over his bike). Maybe Teller the Elder had the same difficulties.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

Nerd! Drunk nerd!

This is basically a set of standards/archetypes of old vs. new, and, you know, Hamlet.

I'm pretty sure Jax's dad was the original founder, since it's the Sons of "Anarchy" and the Emma Goldman quote inspired him. Plus, Jax was raised in the club, so he's not really seeing things from a new perspective (except through his dad's diary, a new element). It's more of a generational gap story. Young buck challenges the old stag.

Drunk nerds, the best kind.

I dunno if it was an interview, or in an ep, or what, but I've gathered that John Teller and Piney were the founders, and Clay was one of the original members.

From Wiki: "John Teller and Piermont "Piney" Winston co-founded SAMCRO in 1967 following their return from service as paratroopers during the Vietnam War"

Holy sh*t that was an incredible episode. I love and hate so many characters at the same time.

WiredAsylum wrote:

Holy sh*t that was an incredible episode. I love and hate so many characters at the same time.

holy sh*t indeed. Which ones do you love and which do you hate?

Looking forward to tonight's episode. This sh*t is getting real!

At the end of last week's ep, I thought, "Okay, things are at the bottom and now Jax is going to start to turn them around." Then I watched the preview for tonight and realized that I was wrong.

Can't ******* wait for next week.

What I think now is a likely scenario, is that John's growing paranoia and violence against his own, including his wife, drove Gemma to Clay, and they quite rightly feared the repercussions of John finding out, so they took action, or John did find out, and the resulting confrontation ended in his death, occurring in such a way that Gemma and Clay felt compelled to hide the truth. I think it's noteworthy that Jax always talks good game, but his temper is too strong for him to follow through (he was all about not brawling with the Nazis in the streets, until they knocked over his bike). Maybe Teller the Elder had the same difficulties.

In about 2 or 3 episodes, I'm waiting for this band of traveling motorcycle actors to show up and Jax will have them do a "special play" for Clay and Gemma. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Nomad wrote:
What I think now is a likely scenario, is that John's growing paranoia and violence against his own, including his wife, drove Gemma to Clay, and they quite rightly feared the repercussions of John finding out, so they took action, or John did find out, and the resulting confrontation ended in his death, occurring in such a way that Gemma and Clay felt compelled to hide the truth. I think it's noteworthy that Jax always talks good game, but his temper is too strong for him to follow through (he was all about not brawling with the Nazis in the streets, until they knocked over his bike). Maybe Teller the Elder had the same difficulties.

In about 2 or 3 episodes, I'm waiting for this band of traveling motorcycle actors to show up and Jax will have them do a "special play" for Clay and Gemma. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. ;)

Happy is an official nomad in SAMCRO. Coincedence? Also, maybe Jury comes back into play?

90 minutes next week!!! So stoked!

Well, the sh*t is going to hit the fan now! What an episode!

Just tagging thread so I can keep up. Just recently found this show, but I've been enjoying it quite a bit.

Wow, just wow.

LiquidMantis wrote:

Wow, just wow.

Yeah, that end kicked this up a notch from "A fun show I like" to "extraordinary".

I've just watched a handful of episodes but I like the show and watched the finale rerun last night.

Also, why can't biker clubs just be in it for the fun in tv/movies?

This is the best written show on currently on TV.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
LiquidMantis wrote:

Wow, just wow.

Yeah, that end kicked this up a notch from "A fun show I like" to "extraordinary".

That was an awesome last scene. They should've had "For your Emmy consideration" scrolling across the bottom.

SOA is dangerously close to unseating the Wire as my all-Time favorite TV show after last night.

Tig has turned himself into the most interesting character in the show. For now, at least. I swear, it seems like every other episode, one of the characters that are either generally disliked or simply disregarded turns into an amazing and well-developed character that is instantly liked in spite of prior events-- all within the span of an hour. Or in Tig's case, the span of 5 minutes. He went from reprehensible to brutally awesome in less than 5 minutes. It saddens me to think that the season is almost over.

What a great episode.

WipEout wrote:

Tig has turned himself into the most interesting character in the show. For now, at least. I swear, it seems like every other episode, one of the characters that are either generally disliked or simply disregarded turns into an amazing and well-developed character that is instantly liked in spite of prior events-- all within the span of an hour. Or in Tig's case, the span of 5 minutes. He went from reprehensible to brutally awesome in less than 5 minutes. It saddens me to think that the season is almost over.

Definitely. I think the hallmark of a good drama is when you can go from despising to empathizing with a character (sometimes several times) while remaining consistent with their character.

Anodyne wrote:

What a great episode.

WipEout wrote:

Tig has turned himself into the most interesting character in the show. For now, at least. I swear, it seems like every other episode, one of the characters that are either generally disliked or simply disregarded turns into an amazing and well-developed character that is instantly liked in spite of prior events-- all within the span of an hour. Or in Tig's case, the span of 5 minutes. He went from reprehensible to brutally awesome in less than 5 minutes. It saddens me to think that the season is almost over.

Definitely. I think the hallmark of a good drama is when you can go from despising to empathizing with a character (sometimes several times) while remaining consistent with their character.

Gotta agree with both of you. Tig went from being a scummy jackass to someone I could completely empathize with in minutes. Great performance. Anyone else get the feeling his thing with Gemma had happened before?

While I enjoyed the scenes with Tig, I'm kind of pissed at the fart in the wind non-resolution of Donna's murder. Clay virutally ignoring Piney's taking a shot at him rings in the same hollow way.

In my view, the only thing that will satisfy Opie openly waiving his right to vengance was if it's part of some larger plot between him and Jax to bring down Clay. I got a hint of that with their private conversation prior to the sit down.

I dunno, I'm just thinking the truth about John Teller is really what's supposed to bring down/revolutionize the Sons and the writers are bludgeoning us in that direction. Still my favorite show on TV right now. I can forgive a few plot twists. I just think those two were way out of character.

I watched this weeks episode twice now, it just gets better. Such an action packed non action week.

2 episodes left this season actually has me upset.