Texas attempting to get away with negligent homicide?

Texas Governor Perry has replaced three state commission members that were investigating the state's execution of a man who now seems to have been innocent, two days before the commission was going to hold an open hearing about the case.

Today's development and some background:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/01/...

Very lengthy and disturbing New Yorker article that convinced me that Texas did indeed kill and innocent man, and furthermore, they should have known they were doing so:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...

Now I know this is Texas, but I have to imagine that Perry's move is only going to make this story a bigger deal than it already was. What consequences should a State and its agents face [if any] in a case like this?

Badferret wrote:

Now I know this is Texas...

No, you obviously don't. This is Texas. You count yourself lucky if you get a trial down here instead of a summary execution.

Perry won't suffer anything...in fact, this will probably help him against his biggest rival at the moment.

Little Raven wrote:
Badferret wrote:

Now I know this is Texas...

No, you obviously don't. This is Texas. You count yourself lucky if you get a trial down here instead of a summary execution.

Perry won't suffer anything...in fact, this will probably help him against his biggest rival at the moment.

Yep, gotta' agree. Most people I know (not in Texas) would view this story as "Well he had to have been doing something wrong to get himself in that situation. Even if he wasn't guilty of that crime I'm sure he was guilty of something." Not a ton of sympathy for people in prison (unless they're a family member) as evidenced by the general "thumbs up" attitude to the Gitmo detention practices.

Most people I know (not in Texas) would view this story as "Well he had to have been doing something wrong to get himself in that situation. Even if he wasn't guilty of that crime I'm sure he was guilty of something."

That's the staple of the argument the Soviet masses used to justify the purges.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

That's the staple of the argument the Soviet masses used to justify the purges.

Did you think "It's like a whole 'nother country" was just an advertising slogan?

Kehama wrote:
Little Raven wrote:
Badferret wrote:

Now I know this is Texas...

No, you obviously don't. This is Texas. You count yourself lucky if you get a trial down here instead of a summary execution.

Perry won't suffer anything...in fact, this will probably help him against his biggest rival at the moment.

Yep, gotta' agree. Most people I know (not in Texas) would view this story as "Well he had to have been doing something wrong to get himself in that situation. Even if he wasn't guilty of that crime I'm sure he was guilty of something." Not a ton of sympathy for people in prison (unless they're a family member) as evidenced by the general "thumbs up" attitude to the Gitmo detention practices.

I'm glad I'm not most people.

I think the fact that we give people the death sentence is appalling. Specifically for this reason, that they could be innocent but it's still carried out because of politics. Ugh.

It is a time honored tradition, on both sides of the aisle, to shirk responsibility whenever possible.

Ever hear of the "State Secrets" defense? It basically means that if the government says something can't go to trial because the details would compromise national security, the courts MUST take their word for it. Of course, the government has used it to avoid embarrassment and responsibility. In fact, the landmark case in which the precedent was set turned out to be precisely that. A soldier was killed in a plane crash and the US refused to have a public investigation because they claimed the report on the plane contained sensitive information. When that report was later declassified, it was found to contain absolutely nothing of the sort.

Fortunately, the Obama administration has put an end to that kind of nonsense... By promising they won't abuse it (they totally pinkie-swear, and you're not allowed to investigate).

Yes, I know it is unrealistic to expect someone in a case like this to have enough balls to say, "Yep, we totally killed that guy by mistake, Opps!" but it still would be nice.

The New Yorker piece indicated that proof of an innocent man being executed would be constitutional shot against the death penalty, as Scalia had previously specifically argued that the death penalty was A-OK because no one who was posthumously proven innocent had ever been executed. But, it now looks like Scalia is arguing that even the innocent don't have protection from execution.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/17/...

Yup, just another reason I generally oppose the death penalty.

The New Yorker article was an awesome piece of journalism. Long, but gripping.

Little Raven wrote:
Badferret wrote:

Now I know this is Texas...

No, you obviously don't. This is Texas. You count yourself lucky if you get a trial down here instead of a summary execution.

Perry won't suffer anything...in fact, this will probably help him against his biggest rival at the moment.

Little Raven, I understand that there's no sympathy for criminals, but is there that much enthusiasm for the politicians that people will turn a blind eye to that sort of chicanery?

It probably doesn't help that the guy was, by some accounts at least, not the nicest of people. You could, of course, argue that being an asshole isn't a capital offense (something I should probably more more thankful for) but that doesn't seem to sway people as much as it should.

Bullion Cube wrote:

Little Raven, I understand that there's no sympathy for criminals, but is there that much enthusiasm for the politicians that people will turn a blind eye to that sort of chicanery?

Not everyone, no, but the people that matter will.

Remember, Texas is a red state. R.E.D. The Republicans could run a sack of flour wearing googlie eyes and win the Governor's seat. So the only contest that really matters is the Republican primary. Whoever wins that wins the prize. The number of people that actually vote in the primary is staggeringly small...~20,000, I think. And those 20,000 are the reddest of red. The truest of the true. The Godliest of God's warriors.

Plenty of people will look at this and think it's shameful. Possibly even most people. But the people that count, the people that Perry needs to win over to keep his seat, will be at best indifferent. Many will actively cheer this decision.

You could, of course, argue that being an asshole isn't a capital offense (something I should probably more more thankful for) but that doesn't seem to sway people as much as it should.

We had a lot of people right here arguing that it was okay to kill a trespasser, as long as it was "a bad guy". I just saw it come up again in a non-P&C thread.

Malor wrote:
You could, of course, argue that being an asshole isn't a capital offense (something I should probably more more thankful for) but that doesn't seem to sway people as much as it should.

We had a lot of people right here arguing that it was okay to kill a trespasser, as long as it was "a bad guy". I just saw it come up again in a non-P&C thread.

I belive the proper term in TX is "he needed killin'".

Little Raven wrote:

The Republicans could run a sack of flour wearing googlie eyes and win the Governor's seat.

IMAGE(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8643/flour.jpg)

He's also against gay marriage.

He looks like the kind of sack of flour that I'd like to sit and have a beer with.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

He looks like the kind of sack of flour that I'd like to sit and make a beer from.

Fixed?

Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

He looks like the kind of sack of flour that I'd like to sit and make a beer from.

Fixed?

You, sir, win Friday, October 2nd. it is yours to do with as you please.

(And please don't make me any flour beer)

In other Texas related news: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33128108/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

AUSTIN, Texas - A cousin of Texas Gov. Rick Perry was shot and killed over the weekend in his backyard during an exchange of gunfire with sheriff's deputies, officials said Thursday.

Perry said Thursday that the death was tragic but stressed he hardly knew his cousin, 74-year-old Larry Don Wheeler, even though he was listed as a member of Perry's 2006 re-election steering committee.

"I'm not sure I would pick him out of a lineup," the governor said of Wheeler, who he said was a distant cousin on his grandmother's side.

Wheeler was sitting on his backyard deck after dinner Saturday night at his home at a Montague County country club when two sheriff's deputies showed up in response to a disturbance call, said David Gossom, an attorney for the family.

"We received a call ... of a man with a shotgun," Montague County Sheriff Paul Cunningham said. "Several citizens in the area were concerned."

Wheeler's backyard is near a golf course. Montague County is about 90 miles northwest of Fort Worth.

What happened next is unclear and under investigation. After an exchange of gunfire, Wheeler was dead and a deputy was shot in the hand. Gossom said bullet holes riddled the back seat cushion of the chair where Wheeler was sitting and the floor of his deck.

An autopsy is pending, said Montague County District Attorney Jack McGaughey. The Texas Rangers are investigating at Cunningham's request, as is McGaughey.

'Boom and he was shot'
Wheeler's wife, Jo Wheeler, was just inside the door and did not know the deputies were present, Gossom said.

"She'd been sitting out there with him for a while and had gone in the house," Gossom said. "All she knows is she'd been talking to her husband, they had dinner, he'd gone outside to sit for a while, and the next thing she hears is boom boom boom and he was shot."

Wheeler, a retired social worker, also is survived by two grown children and two stepchildren, Gossom said.

The two deputies involved are back on duty. Deputy Curtis Hamlin returned to light duty Thursday, but still needs surgery to have shotgun pellets removed from his hand, Cunningham said. Chief Deputy J.T. Mitchell came back Wednesday after a mandatory 72-hour administrative leave.

"You always want to give police officers the benefit of the doubt because they're doing a hard job," Gossom said. "But I'm having a difficult time — after having been out to the scene and talked to a few witnesses — to figure out why in the world this should have happened."

Rick Perry: In favour of blind nepotism or did he just throw a family member 'under the bus'? We repost, you speculate!

LobsterMobster wrote:
Little Raven wrote:

The Republicans could run a sack of flour wearing googlie eyes and win the Governor's seat.

IMAGE(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8643/flour.jpg)

He's also against gay marriage.

I want this....it will be mine =)

kung fu grip wrote:

Rick Perry: In favour of blind nepotism or did he just throw a family member 'under the bus'? We repost, you speculate!

I'm going for "under the bus". For a politician it's just a natural response. I believe it has either evolved as a part of every politician's DNA or an intelligent designer put it there. I haven't decided yet, but either way it's what a politician would naturally do in this situation.

Or he might actually not know the guy. I have some cousins I've met, like, once, and I have no idea what they look like.

kung fu grip wrote:

Rick Perry: In favour of blind nepotism or did he just throw a family member 'under the bus'? We repost, you speculate!

Those are not exclusive.

I think my opinion of Mr. Parry was pretty much crystallized in an interview with the NYT.

But don’t you think that homosexuals might also be interested in being loyal and thrifty? The argument that gets made is that homosexuality is about sex. Do you agree?

No. Well, then why don’t they call it something else?

That was a jaw-dropper for me.

Same source as Prederick wrote:

And instead of a shotgun-shooting merit badge, how about a gun-control badge? Now you’ve stepped across the line. Remember, you are talking to a Texan.

INTERVIEW CONDUCTED, CONDENSED AND EDITED BY DEBORAH SOLOMON*

*Before she was shot in the face by Gov. Rick Perry for insulting his honor.

Sorry, had to add my own ending to that interview after that hilarious closer.