Borderlands (catch all)

Edwin wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Reading the wiki, it kind of reminds me of that Galactic Arms Race tech demo, where weapons are procedurally generated.

Yes, a shotgun with a yellow sticker on it is still a shotgun, but a revolver that shoots shotgun shells is a little cooler.

They have those in real life you know, the Taurus Judge. It was even used in Max Payne, the movie.

The Colt revolvers in Blood Meridian used rifle cartridges, which I always thought was pretty cool. Disappearing cats! If Borderlands lets me make cats disappear, then it becomes a must buy.

This game has sort of had the 'Too Human' effect on me as well; every new update or preview I see makes me less and less interested in the game.

Any word on how the single-player component is panning out? I thought I read an article in game informer a year or so ago where they talked about a 'rich world to explore offline or online', something like that.

Norfair wrote:

I kinda wonder if you get to make your own char or if they give you four to choose from L4D style. All the current screen shots seem to show the same four. That could just be a marketing thing I suppose.

Stengah wrote:

Wikipedia says that it's four set characters, but that you can choose from different skill paths for each.

The four 'characters' are basically classes, but instead of typical class names, the devs gave them people names. Supposedly each will have their own play style and 3 skill trees to develop.

Puce Moose wrote:

Any word on how the single-player component is panning out? I thought I read an article in game informer a year or so ago where they talked about a 'rich world to explore offline or online', something like that.

The game dev president did some interviews at this year's E3, and I remember him saying that your character's progression is persistent, whether you play alone or co-op (which can be played online or split screen).

I found one of the interviews in which he explains the character classes and the co-op.

http://www.incgamers.com/News/16769/...

I've been looking everywhere but i can't seem to find any interview or bit of info that confirms it:

When you play single player are the rest of the characters AI squad mates or are they just NPCs in the world? It's just that every video i've seen shows all four characters running around together.... like that one for the brawler (Brick?) where the rest of the squad were killing things/people before he got to them..... i got the sense that it wasn't other people who were doing that from what they were saying whilst playing. Does anyone know?

Also, is there any word about activation DRM on PC?

Pleasebegood pleasebegood pleasebegood.

Still sort of undecided about this one based on what I've seen, but I really want it to be good. The idea of Diablo, but FPS just excites me for some reason.

If the random loot generation is such a key feature I wish they'd go over it in a little more detail than "87 bazillion guns!" A trailer showing a few choice randomly generated weapons and how they act in-game would be really nice.

I also wonder if there's a direct relationship between the 4-player co-op and the 4 characters. Can you only have one of each character in a game? Does that mean we all need to maintain at least 4 characters just to be "safe?"

MeatMan wrote:

The four 'characters' are basically classes, but instead of typical class names, the devs gave them people names. Supposedly each will have their own play style and 3 skill trees to develop.

Yep, and the sexy female character is the spellcaster. DUH. The only other thing she'd be good for is Piecrafting, and that's hardly a basis for a combat character (even if they can sell ammo to clowns with the appropriate level 8 Hilarity skills).

Anyone got links to a good gameplay demo? I've seen one from E3 2008, and there's clips from 2009, but no extended periods of just gameplay.

Also, what's the tune for the trailer? I'd love it if they've got something similar in-game, as it's really would be a break from generic tension music, generic exploration music and generic fight music.

LobsterMobster wrote:

If the random loot generation is such a key feature I wish they'd go over it in a little more detail than "87 bazillion guns!" A trailer showing a few choice randomly generated weapons and how they act in-game would be really nice.

There was a lengthy preview of Badlands in a game mag a year or two ago. There are tons of gun mods, so each mod you apply to your gun makes it a new gun in their eyes. The loot system sounded pretty cool overall--a bit like the one in Diablo 2 taken a few steps further. If this game stinks it will be more a matter of gameplay than anything else.

complexmath wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

If the random loot generation is such a key feature I wish they'd go over it in a little more detail than "87 bazillion guns!" A trailer showing a few choice randomly generated weapons and how they act in-game would be really nice.

There was a lengthy preview of Badlands in a game mag a year or two ago. There are tons of gun mods, so each mod you apply to your gun makes it a new gun in their eyes. The loot system sounded pretty cool overall--a bit like the one in Diablo 2 taken a few steps further. If this game stinks it will be more a matter of gameplay than anything else.

In my opinion, one of Hellgate's biggest problems was that combat was unsatisfying and combat was unsatisfying because the enemies wouldn't react at all to your hits. It looks like there's some gore in Borderlands, so here's to hoping the enemies will notice when you shoot them.

I'm really looking forward to this game, I'm very optimistic on this one.

Gearbox does shooting well, and Hell's Highway, for whatever flaws it may have had, was polished, intense and visceral.

I'm looking forward to seeing them move out of WWII and the tactical framework of the BIA games. I thought Borderlands looked pretty cool even before the "concept art" makeover, and now I'm really pretty damn excited about it.

This for sure a pc day 1 if it is on steam. Otherwise I am not sure.

Not in English but this clip has a ton of in game footage.

Arovin wrote:

Not in English but this clip has a ton of in game footage.

Congratulations. You have my full attention.

Best part of that video; an enemy's head is electrified and the player punches him in the face.

One nice thing is it doesn't appear to be a series of dungeon crawls going through levels 1-4 to get to mission hubs or having mission objectives to just clear out areas.

Giantbomb's Hands on:

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/we-played-borderlands/1590/

Gerst-Man wrote:

Borderlands is a relatively easy game to describe. It takes the character building and equipment hoarding of something like Diablo, gives it a quest style that makes it feel a bit like a massively multiplayer RPG, and drops it all into a first-person shooter. With a ton of guns. But that doesn't really tell you anything about how it all feels. As it happens, the feel of a game like this is a make-or-break piece of the puzzle. Because that same exact description could be used to describe Hellgate: London. That game? Not so good. The good news is that after sinking into a chair and shooting my way through the first 45 minutes or so of Gearbox's upcoming action-RPG, it definitely feels like it's on the right track.

1Up has a few videos up. Honestly, they don't look very good or satisfying. The melee attack is a good idea so hopefully that'll help make things a bit more "tactile," but otherwise it looks like the combat feels a lot like Hellgate. I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't look like a very engaging shooter, and if the FPS portion of your FPS/RPG isn't good, your gimmick is holding you back.

Very pessimistic from just a short gameplay video, I know, but I'm bitter after Hellgate.

The way difficulty tends to ramp up in these games is that enemies get more armor and HP, so you need to think about doing what's in this video against something that takes a long while to go down. Unless I feel engaged in combat, it's just watching a progress bar. Diablo II was much the same but it had good enough loot to keep me coming back for more. I'd really like to know more about the Borderlands loot system, beyond "OMG SO MANY GUNS YAY!"

It's good to finally get some slightly more in-depth wordage on the game.... would still like more though but i'm definitely leaning towards getting this now.

lobstermobster wrote:

The way difficulty tends to ramp up in these games is that enemies get more armor and HP, so you need to think about doing what's in this video against something that takes a long while to go down.

That does worry me too.... some of the dudes in those videos took 10-20 rounds to go down. :/

Duoae wrote:

That does worry me too.... some of the dudes in those videos took 10-20 rounds to go down. :/

To my eyes it looked like they were missing a bit or using some EMP ammo (electrical sparks)

LobsterMobster wrote:

1Up has a few videos up. Honestly, they don't look very good or satisfying. The melee attack is a good idea so hopefully that'll help make things a bit more "tactile," but otherwise it looks like the combat feels a lot like Hellgate. I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't look like a very engaging shooter, and if the FPS portion of your FPS/RPG isn't good, your gimmick is holding you back.

Very pessimistic from just a short gameplay video, I know, but I'm bitter after Hellgate.

The way difficulty tends to ramp up in these games is that enemies get more armor and HP, so you need to think about doing what's in this video against something that takes a long while to go down. Unless I feel engaged in combat, it's just watching a progress bar. Diablo II was much the same but it had good enough loot to keep me coming back for more. I'd really like to know more about the Borderlands loot system, beyond "OMG SO MANY GUNS YAY!"

What are you looking for? I am curious because we seem to have differing opinions on what is engaging. I enjoyed the shooting in hellgate so much that all of my hardcore chars were marksmen builds.

It was really no different to me then fighting a boss mob in a Source game. I am thinking specifically of the ships and the giant bugs in Episode 2.

Simply put, I want what I'm shooting at to acknowledge that I have shot it. Flinching, recoiling, staggering, it's all good. In other words, if a monster comes at me and my shooting is not slowing it down or distracting it in the slightest (like anything in Hellgate), I want to think, "holy crap, it's not stopping, I should probably run away." In order to get that gut reaction, it needs to be the exception, not the rule (such as the tank in L4D).

You're entitled to like or dislike whatever you wish, but the sales figures would indicate that most people found the combat in Hellgate to be unsatisfying.

I will be giving this a look. I would like to hear what really sets the game apart. Last thing I remember was Randy asking "How many games have more than one shotgun?"
Doom 2, Deus ex, STALKER, Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Fallout...

KingGorilla wrote:

I will be giving this a look. I would like to hear what really sets the game apart. Last thing I remember was Randy asking "How many games have more than one shotgun?"
Doom 2, Deus ex, STALKER, Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Fallout...

It's an even sillier question in the context of "shotgun + sticker = new shotgun." The math on that comes down to, "our game has stickers."

LobsterMobster wrote:

Simply put, I want what I'm shooting at to acknowledge that I have shot it. Flinching, recoiling, staggering, it's all good. In other words, if a monster comes at me and my shooting is not slowing it down or distracting it in the slightest (like anything in Hellgate), I want to think, "holy crap, it's not stopping, I should probably run away." In order to get that gut reaction, it needs to be the exception, not the rule (such as the tank in L4D).

You're entitled to like or dislike whatever you wish, but the sales figures would indicate that most people found the combat in Hellgate to be unsatisfying.

Sheesh man, I was just curious what you were looking for not attacking what you thought, nor did I say you were wrong, I was genuinely curious what you meant by that. I remember Hellgate's mobs reacting differently, but it was a while ago so my memory may be off by now.

So is it lack of stopping power or visual feedback aka bloodspatter?

WiredAsylum wrote:

So is it lack of stopping power or visual feedback aka bloodspatter?

It's mostly the lack of stopping power, but failing that some good bloodsplatter can mask the problem. I think Hellgate's guns failed to satisfy me because they not only had no stopping power and very little (if any) bloodsplatter, but also crappy firing sounds and graphics and no recoil. I felt like my enemies weren't reacting to my shots because I was shooting BBs at them.

So somehow, Hellgate managed to make a gun that shoots beetles unsatisfying.

Rock Paper Shotgun has a very complimentary preview up.

Kotaku made a salient point in their preview of it (must be some sort of embargo that's just been lifted):

Smaller details could prove to be irksome if the game's emphasis on gathering loot isn't accompanied with an efficient system for managing a bulging inventory and swiftly selling the excess.

Of course, from the sounds of the kotaku piece, Gearbox didn't show off the inventory system... :/

RPS wrote:

It isn’t a tactical shooter, and it isn’t a talky RPG. It steps back to the base level of both genres and then piles style and energy on top. It’s the opposite of feature creep – returning to why people wanted to shoot monsters in the face and collect shiny things in the first place. From what I played, it wouldn’t be wrong to call it shallow. It would be wrong to call that shallowness a bad thing. Pitchford again: “we’re dancing around innovation more than we’ve ever done before.” In the land of the endless cover systems, unbound carnage is king.

I like the sound of that. Having played through Serious Sam recently (before I knew a PC version of the revamp was coming), I like a game that knows what it is and gets on with it.

LobsterMobster wrote:
WiredAsylum wrote:

So is it lack of stopping power or visual feedback aka bloodspatter?

It's mostly the lack of stopping power, but failing that some good bloodsplatter can mask the problem. I think Hellgate's guns failed to satisfy me because they not only had no stopping power and very little (if any) bloodsplatter, but also crappy firing sounds and graphics and no recoil. I felt like my enemies weren't reacting to my shots because I was shooting BBs at them.

So somehow, Hellgate managed to make a gun that shoots beetles unsatisfying. :(

Hellgate, for me(As well as Mass Effect oddly), (And I suspect Conan, War, and Tabula Rase) was that Hellgate did not have the player depth I expect from an RPG. The skills, upgrades, loot did not have the customization and power I would expect from an RPG even 5 years ago. And the action was very repetitive, without much AI challenge. In other words, the RPG fan in me was more impressed with The Witcher, or Oblivion, and the Shooter/action Fan in me was more interrested in Half-Life 2 Episodes.

My hope for Borderlands is that is is much more STALKER and Deus Ex than Hellgate or Fallout 3. I have a feeling that it will fail or succeed more on the world than the character sheets or weapons. And for all its problems, The Zone is one of my favorite game worlds ever.

Duoae wrote:

Of course, from the sounds of the kotaku piece, Gearbox didn't show off the inventory system... :/

What kind of a Diablo clone can you play for a half hour without even looking at the inventory system? A game about loot where you can't equip the loot?