2008/09 Soccer Thread in Shock £50m Chelsea Switch! (And Other Ludicrousness)

Understood but I figured there'd be a few diehard USMNT fans here that caught them anyway.

93_confirmed wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:

Dare I ask if any of you Soccer gurus have watched any of the Gold Cup games? For the most part, it's been "C" team players for the USA and not too exciting. There are a few standout players (Holden, Arnaud) that have potential but not much else. Ching looks washed up but he's close with BB and probably already has a spot on the WC roster. Most of the guys from the Confed Cup are back at their respective clubs. If we win tomorrow against Hondurus, it should be a good final on Sunday (Giants Stadium) against the winnder of Mexico and Costa Rica.

Looking ahead past that, we've got a crucial WCQ against Mexico in Estadio Azteca, which is the same time when Mexico's coach gets back from the suspension.

Ok, I'll GTFO. Bye. :-)

I watched the four Canada matches, the US-Panama match and bits of other matches. Canada played well; we weren't hoofing the ball down at the lone striker, but our inability to finish and create chances in the final third did us in. Oh, and the officiating, not that it is surprising to have bad officiating in CONCACAF (it was a freaking bicycle kick, of course the guy's going to be falling toward the ground!).

The USA's depth is just incredible, especially in goal.

Been walking past the Tevez one all week, been driving the Reds apopleptic, which is super. There is also one in red, with 'Welcome to Stretford' on it and little Mickey Owen on a pair of crutches, but that appeared on a City forum so I'm assuming it's photoshopped.

Talking of apopleptic, City are really riling Ferguson now....considering he's not bothered about us and doesn't rate us, was there really any need to mention lickle City more than 10 times in his press conference yesterday ? His desperation is really obvious now...apparently Adebayor 'rang up United just before he signed for City'. I'm filing that in the same place as 'United were never prepared to pay £25m for Carlos Tevez', which directly contradicts an earlier press statement from their CEO.

Time for a cheeky bid for Vidic. methinks

I've watched all of the US matches and most of the Mexican matches for the Gold Cup. Outside of the first match US match vs. Grenada the rest have been pretty rough to watch. I did see the controversial Mexico v. Panama match.

Roke wrote:

The USA's depth is just incredible, especially in goal.

Troy Perkins seems better than Guzan? So hard to judge vs. "C" teams. I'd like to see what Perkins does when playing in and against "A" teams.

Ibrahimović will be unveiled on Monday. Meanwhile, Guardiola claims they're still looking to strengthen few areas. Assuming that Villa and Ribery deals are dead, their main targets right now are Javier Mascherano and... Dymitrij Chygryńskij from Shaktar Donetsk. Both would be really great additions. I saw Chygrynsky in UEFA cup final and heard about him few times before, and it looks like he has potential to be really great defender.

maxox wrote:

Troy Perkins seems better than Guzan? So hard to judge vs. "C" teams. I'd like to see what Perkins does when playing in and against "A" teams.

Sorry, I was using Canada as my point of comparison. Our #1 keeper was on the bench all year for his club, and after that it's really up in the air between old guys in North America Pat Onstad, Greg Sutton) or younger guys trying to ply their trade in England (Josh Wagenaar of Yeovil town and, hopefully, Asmir Begovic).

The nice thing for you is that you won't necessarily have to see Perkins against the 'A' teams unless there's an injury crisis; Howard is only 30, and he should be capable in the 2014 World Cup.

Well, THAT was embarrassing to watch.

It was. The US looked "good" in the first 45 but then they came out flat after the half. The offside traps failed on multiple occasions and the D was gassed. Ching looked awful. There were so many balls that he could have chased down but he gave up. Davies would have gotten most of them and at least given the US a few more offensive chances. Arnaud is inconsistent and hasn't done much. Oh well, now we look forward to the WCQ game on 8/12 at Azteca.

And so, the great John Terry circus ends at least, with him stating that he 'never thought of leaving Chelsea'.

Oh yeah ? Then why wait until everyone at the club but the kitman had opened their traps ? Could it have been that you were scuttling off to see the moneylaunderer with a copy of City's offer and asking what he was going to do about it ?

I think City have dodged a bullet with that one.

Now let's sign up Hangeland (which will give Roy H more money to go in and swipe Crouch away from 'Fingers' Redknapp, so a real win-win), Lescott and then let's get ready for next season

Saw Spurs yesterday against Celtic on the telly (well, Celtic reserves more like, I don't think I've ever seen more squad numbers in the 40s and 50s), and they stumbled to a 2-0 defeat. 'Arry pointed out that the week before last season started they battered Roma 5-0, so preseason isn't always a good indicator. Given that Spurs were basically at home, he'd better hope that a 1-1 with Barcelona 3rd XI and a 2-0 defeat by Celtic reserves isn't a precursor of things to come.

YOU STAY AWAY FROM OUR SEXY, SEXY NORWEGIAN CENTER-BACK WHO WAS BORN IN TEXAS APPARENTLY

And i'd argue that missing Terry is good because he's (whisper it) not actually that good.

Prederick wrote:

YOU STAY AWAY FROM OUR SEXY, SEXY NORWEGIAN CENTER-BACK WHO WAS BORN IN TEXAS APPARENTLY

And i'd argue that missing Terry is good because he's (whisper it) not actually that good.

I agreed with that Pred, hence me saying we'd dodged a bullet.

And sorry if we are R_____ F_____, but we are only a small club who don't know our place, accidentally allowed into Harrods and we are knocking everything over like a confused tourist...according to Sir PurpleNose, who's even given up slagging off Rafa to devote some time to us. How nice of him

PS - Hangeland is only plan C, I think, you might get away with it. We could send Benjani to you no charge if that would help ?

davet010 wrote:
Prederick wrote:

YOU STAY AWAY FROM OUR SEXY, SEXY NORWEGIAN CENTER-BACK WHO WAS BORN IN TEXAS APPARENTLY

And i'd argue that missing Terry is good because he's (whisper it) not actually that good.

I agreed with that Pred, hence me saying we'd dodged a bullet.

Oh? Three days ago you thought that he would bring "leadership" and "defensive organisation" to the team But yes, you've probably got lucky with that bid.

davet010 wrote:

PS - Hangeland is only plan C, I think, you might get away with it. We could send Benjani to you no charge if that would help ?

Cheeeeky So who's plan B, then, assuming that Lescott is A?
edit: Oh, Toure.

Yes, I still think that Terry has some qualities which City are still lacking (and probably would still be lacking if they got Toure and Lescott), but which they need in terms of leadership and organisation. Whether this would outweigh Terry's other deficiencies is open to debate.

I'm just wondering whether anyone other than the most starry-eyed Chelsea fan believes his nonsense about never even considering moving to City. He could have just said 'not interested' on day 1, and it would have all been over. I'm still of the opinion that if he could have come up with a way of leaving that didn't make him look like a complete git, then he'd have been off like a shot.

On another tack, I was wondering whether despite all of Laporta's bluster about Barca not spending mad money on players, the Eto'o deal might actually be close to Ronaldo.

Think about it

€40m in fees
Hleb on loan for a season (say €3m of value)
Samuel Eto'o (a conservative price for him would be €40m)

Sure looks like a lot to me. Suffice to say that there are many in Barcelona who are less than enamoured of this, and I'm not sure that Pep is turning cartwheels of delight, particularly not when €40m would probably have snapped up David Villa and they could then sell Eto'o to someone else.

davet010 wrote:

Yes, I still think that Terry has some qualities which City are still lacking (and probably would still be lacking if they got Toure and Lescott), but which they need in terms of leadership and organisation. Whether this would outweigh Terry's other deficiencies is open to debate.

I'm just wondering whether anyone other than the most starry-eyed Chelsea fan believes his nonsense about never even considering moving to City. He could have just said 'not interested' on day 1, and it would have all been over. I'm still of the opinion that if he could have come up with a way of leaving that didn't make him look like a complete git, then he'd have been off like a shot.

On another tack, I was wondering whether despite all of Laporta's bluster about Barca not spending mad money on players, the Eto'o deal might actually be close to Ronaldo.

Think about it

€40m in fees
Hleb on loan for a season (say €3m of value)
Samuel Eto'o (a conservative price for him would be €40m)

Sure looks like a lot to me. Suffice to say that there are many in Barcelona who are less than enamoured of this, and I'm not sure that Pep is turning cartwheels of delight, particularly not when €40m would probably have snapped up David Villa and they could then sell Eto'o to someone else.

Eto'o is in the last year of his deal and supposedly wont resign. Barca pretty much have to move him but the deal is still in silly season territory.

Fair point, but there are probably only about 20 clubs in Europe who can afford to pay Samuel the sort of ding that he is looking for, and of them at least half have already sorted themselves out at CF. I'm just surprised that Barcelona didn't ask for a straight swap or swap plus Hleb loan (yeah, how's that dream move to Barca working out for you, Aleksander ?) for Ibrahimovich.

I'd still have had him at City over Adebayor, though

davet010 wrote:

I'd still have had him at City over Adebayor, though ;)

Well, I'd have him over Adebayor and Santa Cruz. However, it was sure that if he goes somewhere, it will be Barca. At least he's honest about it: he saw them play, felt like his career was going nowhere in Italy, so he decided to leave for Spain. Quite reasonable of him.
Same applies to Moratti, espn piece on Ibra's transfer has some interesting quotes:

"More than once in the last few months he has shown his desire to change clubs,'' he told Gazzetta dello Sport. "It wasn't forced, he told us that he saw his career developing elsewhere. We're talking about someone rather indifferent on a sentimental level, a professional.''

Ibrahimovic's agent claimed recently the player had been thinking of a move to Barca for over a year, but Moratti refused to be drawn.

Moratti said: "If that is true I must say he did an incredible job at not letting it out. I don't think anyone could have guessed his desire was away from Inter given he's leaving as the league top scorer.

"We are all thankful for what Ibra has done for us over the years.''

Moratti feels that the deal is of mutual benefit to both Inter and Barca, and has reassured fans that the only reason Eto'o cost so little was because he has a single year left on his contract with the Catalans.

"It seems to me an intelligent move by Barcelona to begin new paths,'' he added. "And for Inter we're talking about a positive deal also in the financial sense.

"You have to bear in mind that Eto'o's value as a player is not that of his low transfer value. It was great business for both. I can't recall a deal of this level between European clubs.''

Oh no UC, I'm not talking about Ibrahimovich, I don't rate him at all. I was on about Eto'o.

If Wenger sells Kolo to City its the definition for him falling for his own genius. Even if he reportedly replaces him with the Hagelend rumors its a step backwards on the pitch and forwards on the balance sheet.

The quote of him saying the team has 7 cb's is also infuriating as one of them is Sylvester who if anything should be sold and not Kolo because the value is right for a guy his age.

The only knock on Hageland is that he's only done it for one season, and I'm not sure that everything about Fulham's defence was due to him.

Still, out of the big 4 I'd rather give money to Arsene than the other bandits.

I'm thinking that one of his 7 CB's is Senderos ? If so, that's not very good, because that guy is pure pony. Taking him on loan to AC Milan was the final straw for a lot of their fans with Ancelotti.

jowner wrote:

If Wenger sells Kolo to City its the definition for him falling for his own genius. Even if he reportedly replaces him with the Hagelend rumors its a step backwards on the pitch and forwards on the balance sheet.

The quote of him saying the team has 7 cb's is also infuriating as one of them is Sylvester who if anything should be sold and not Kolo because the value is right for a guy his age.

Its a mystery to me. Arsenal is not exactly flush with dependable cbs and Kolo has been a pillar of the defence.

jowner wrote:

If Wenger sells Kolo to City its the definition for him falling for his own genius. Even if he reportedly replaces him with the Hagelend rumors its a step backwards on the pitch and forwards on the balance sheet.

Well, what's really infuriating in this is price tag. I'd accept selling him for 20-25m, but around 12?

btw: If we're going to buy DM, we will have to find new position for Song, who's developing very nice. It might be possible that Wenger will use money to finance transfer of decent DM, and will use Song, Vermaelen and Gallas as three main CBs, with Djourou, Silvestre, Senderos to support them.
That would make sense, provided Song and Vermaelen are up to the task.

davet010 wrote:

I'm thinking that one of his 7 CB's is Senderos ? If so, that's not very good, because that guy is pure pony. Taking him on loan to AC Milan was the final straw for a lot of their fans with Ancelotti.

You could read between lines of latest Wenger's interviews that he's really desperate to sell him. However, I doubt there are any potential buyers who would offer decent money. And there's no point in selling him for, let's say, 2-3m, when we're going to sell Toure.

davet010 wrote:

I'm thinking that one of his 7 CB's is Senderos ? If so, that's not very good, because that guy is pure pony. Taking him on loan to AC Milan was the final straw for a lot of their fans with Ancelotti.

Senderos really doesn't seem to belong on a first division team. On the other hand, Wenger does seem to have a bit of a blind spot for Bendtner too.

pop58 wrote:
davet010 wrote:

I'm thinking that one of his 7 CB's is Senderos ? If so, that's not very good, because that guy is pure pony. Taking him on loan to AC Milan was the final straw for a lot of their fans with Ancelotti.

Senderos really doesn't seem to belong on a first division team. On the other hand, Wenger does seem to have a bit of a blind spot for Bendtner too.

You're not helping.

Blimey, it's like a Gooners rave-up in here. Do I get in on sufferance due to my oft-expressed admiration for Arsene and his methods ?

Meanwhile, talking of billboards, here's one that might possibly be photoshopped

IMAGE(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs130.snc1/5575_1179638167303_1118615732_30563120_5139339_n.jpg)

Looks photoshopped, still funny though.

anyone whos interested in the money side of the game the Deloitte money list is out a week ago.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-...

Interesting stuff. The maddening part for Arsenal fans is theres no way the club is so strapped for cash that they need to be selling players. Ade I could understand anything more and I'm going to lose my mind figuring out what the hell the plan exactly is.

davet010 wrote:

Blimey, it's like a Gooners rave-up in here. Do I get in on sufferance due to my oft-expressed admiration for Arsene and his methods ?

Didn't you know, Dave? Arsenal is the new Man U. Its been trendy to be a fan for years.

jowner wrote:

Looks photoshopped, still funny though.

anyone whos interested in the money side of the game the Deloitte money list is out a week ago.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-...

Interesting stuff. The maddening part for Arsenal fans is theres no way the club is so strapped for cash that they need to be selling players. Ade I could understand anything more and I'm going to lose my mind figuring out what the hell the plan exactly is.

I've had a flip through the Deloitte document - I do that sort of thing for a living, so it wasn't too hard to follow. I've spoken to a couple of people in their football team a few years back, and while they are good at collating information, they don't really delve beneath it - and I'm pretty sure that with an internet connection and a free supply of coffee I could have put that document together in a couple of weeks, albeit without the glossy pictures. Even the non-numbers stuff about future plans reads as though it has been cut and pasted from the operating statement. I think there are a couple of issues within Arsenal that haven't made it totally into the document.

1. Unlike most of the other clubs on that list above them, Arsenal have a board with 2 strong (and competing) factions...Usmanov and Kroenke. Some of the ideas which have been put forward by Usmanov, such as a capital increase, have been nixed by the other side, as they try to jockey for position while not tripping the 30% ownership mark. This has almost led to a lack of a strategy that everyone is buying into.

2. The work done concentrates on revenue, but any accountant knows that this is only part of the story. Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd are all carrying huge debt burdens - estimated at £300m for Arsenal (Emirates stadium) and £450m/£700m for Liverpool and Man U as the new owners banged the debt they incurred in taking over the clubs onto the balance sheet, along with the repayments. Hence while Arsenal look good in review terms, their accounts for 2007/08 do show interest charges of around £15m per annum. It must be said, though, that they did make a record profit in 07/08.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9384323/Ar...

3. I think the real reason is that Arsene wenger, even from his first appearance in 1996, does not like splashing out loads of cash on well-known players, indeed it might be said that some of his largest transfer errors (Jeffers, Richard Wright, Reyes) have come about when he has done just that. I think the real answer to jowner's question is that his plan is what it always has been - sell players who he believes have reached their primary resale value (Toure, if he comes) or are unsettled (Adebayor), and bring in others whom he can develop. He said at the start of summer that he had money available, and now there's more as City will have paid on the nail, but I think he believes that his system works better spending £5m on young unknowns that splashing out top dollar on big names. It's also worth mentioning that Arsenal do seem to maintain a very strict wage framework, which is good from a control point of view, but dissuades the very biggest names from coming, and also can cause problems when existing stars are coming to the end of their deals and are looking for significant hikes in wages. In a sense, the Arsenal youth policy is a hedge against that.

That's a strategy that has worked in the past, either with youngsters like Fabregas or reclamation projects like Henry, and if it works the manager looks like a genius. However, it's often difficult for the more casual fan to follow, particularly when they see other teams splashing out on big names and monopolising the press. It'll remain to be seen with all the top 4 teams just how stable their overseas fan bases are if they start to slip.

The difference in the Arsenal debt from the others is its structured and theres a purpose (building a stadium vs owners leveraging a club they never had the money to buy). Pretty sure its 20m per annum ending around 2020 when the naming rights on the stadium by Emirates expires.

I understand the philosophy but I think there are times where Wenger out thinks himself or isn't flexible enough within his own philosophy.

Is 15m good for Toure? Yea its not a bad fee for player who relies on athleticism and is currently 28, its the definition of selling just before his expiry date. Problem is all the scenarios don't help Arsenal win anything this year just make the balance sheet even more impressive. This is also a good thing but theres one problem, the debt on the stadium isn't flexible to be paid off early because Wenger has been extra efficient. Instead the club will just turn extra large profits and watch them ship a nice chunk off to the government.

Going back to the Deloitte numbers Arsenal is also dependent on match day revenue (2nd highest in Europe only to United) which could take a serious hit this year with hospitality (box seats) taking a dip. To offset any of this they are going to need make more in broadcast money and commercial. Problem is both are very tied into how well the team does. Hard to sell Arshavin jerseys in SE Asia if the club is taking backsteps in the squad and they see an early CL exit and even harder to bump up broadcast rev which are fixed besides prize money from how deep you go into the CL if they actually do exit early.

Right now the United strategy seems to be win everything under the sun and make so much money they can pay off and restructure their debt so the Glazers can actually own the team. The Real strategy is buy every marketable player so even if you don't win everything people are paying over the moon for your broadcast rights that you control, selling your commercial rights at an absurd price because everyone is watching and then selling more jerseys then people reasonably need.

The Arsenal strategy if they sell Kolo? Hold on to 4th? Pretend to be competitive in the league and CL? Survive till 2014 when they can renogiate the shirt sponsorship? till 2020 when the stadium is payed off? I could understand if the club was teetering between minor profits and being forced to borrow to survive but like you mentioned the club is turning record profits instead. If anything its the time to take a page out of Uniteds book at the least and don't sell and keep players like Kolo, Eboue and Senderos for depth. Save the Real strategy for after 2020... its not like any big name player will come to England and Arsenal anyways right now with 50% tax rates. Its almost as if the club is determined to turn such high profits that the government can lower the tax rate again ;P

Good points, well made. Just a few from me...

1. The tax rate thing is a bit of a red herring. Yes, the top rate in the UK is 50%, but a lot of countries are roughly the same, plus a variety of local taxes that make comparisons different. The 23% rate is a special Spanish rate for particular groups of foreign employees, but let's face it - there are only 2 clubs in Spain who can afford significant transfer fees and wages, and I'm not sure that they are hiring right now. And let's face it, if I actually do end up paying 50% tax, me and my accountant are not going to be the best of friends - you can set up a company with you as the sole employee and opt to pay corporation tax, for a start.

2. You mention the Glasers....well, despite MU winning things they haven't actually done any restructuring of the debt yet - indeed, it is at quite prohibitive interest rates so there's no impetus for the bank to do so while they are getting a rate of approx 10%. Ronaldo's fee, assuming RM actually did pay it all on 1 July, will just cover their interest charge for the year.

In the short term then, Arsenal might (and I say might because they do have a lot going for them) struggle a bit. But a bit of struggle is good for the fans as a reality check. In the longer term, I think that Arsenal followers will have a lot to thank Wenger for - they might just need to keep the faith and not decide to swing the axe if they don't win a trophy this year.