Alternatives to the Ipod?

I'm in the market for an MP3 player. Nothing fancy, I don't need video or games or any other bells and whistles.

I don't want an Ipod because I don't want to have to install Itunes. After Quicktime screwing with my computer, I don't want to use any Apple software.

I want an MP3 player with a decent memory capacity 80-120 gbs, preferably.

Any suggestions?

First off, you don't have to install iTunes to use the iPod. There are many alternatives.

Second, it depends on the size of storage you want. At this point, only Apple and Microsoft's Zunes are HDD players with 30+ GB capacity. If you're looking for less than 16GB, there you have a few more options.

And Third, this should probably be in the TECH forum

Yeah, but I was figuring I would get more recommendations here.

Your answer that the Zune and Ipod are the only players with 30gb+ capacity is the answer I was afraid I was going to get.

Quicktime screwing with your computer? O_o Exactly what happened?

I downloaded it and then QT refused to let me download any MP3s I wanted (such as podcasts), which was infuriatingly difficult to fix.

Point being, I don't want an Ipod, I don't want a Zune, I don't want anything with video.

I just want an MP3 player with a nice, large storage capacity.

Get the iPod Touch. It's a game machine too.

Lard wrote:

Yeah, but I was figuring I would get more recommendations here.

That excuse usually never flies with the mods

Your answer that the Zune and Ipod are the only players with 30gb+ capacity is the answer I was afraid I was going to get ... I downloaded [QuickTime] and then QT refused to let me download any MP3s I wanted (such as podcasts), which was infuriatingly difficult to fix.

I have to admit that I don't see what QT could possibly be doing to stop you downloading anything. Downloading things from iTunes? From...? Amazon? Seriously, can't figure that one out.

As I said, you can get any number of iTunes alternatives if you don't want to use iTunes for whatever reason. Hell, even Winamp has an iTunes module, IIRC. Not sure how any of these work, but if you just want to use MP3 files, I doubt it matters.

Point being, I don't want an Ipod, I don't want a Zune, I don't want anything with video.
I just want an MP3 player with a nice, large storage capacity.

You're going to have to travel back to about 2005 for that, I'm afraid. There used to be at least a handful of alternatives, but everyone has pretty much ceded the HDD market to Apple and Microsoft. Sandisk, Creative, Sony, and others still have solid state storage devices, but as with the iPod Touch, the max capacity is 32GB on those (and they tend to be much more expensive).

I personally think the Zune or the iPod Classic are great players, but if you want to see some of the other alternatives, you might want to check out this guy's site:

http://anythingbutipod.com/

DSGamer wrote:

Get the iPod Touch. It's a game machine too.

Seeing as he said he doesn't want to use iTunes or play videos, I think this might not be up his alley.

For the uses you're listing, why do you need something that huge?

I've got a 4gig SanDisk I've had for over a year that I've been using for just music and a few podcasts and I've yet to fill it up. Now I do grant you that my use isn't all that heavy, but still.

Even if you listen to a LOT of podcasts a week, all you'd need is some decent disk management habits to rotate the one's you've listened to off the box as you add new ones.

It doesn't need any library management software at all - it plugs in as a USB device and it acts like a thumb-drive. I paid $40 for it on sale at Radio Shack (plus another $25 for a pair of headphones that don't make the baby Jeebus cry). I think full price is around $70.

Lard wrote:

Yeah, but I was figuring I would get more recommendations here.

SommerMatt wrote:

That excuse never flies with the mods

Worth noting a second time, with a slight modification.

I can't think of the last time I saw anything that compared to the Ipod or Zune in storage capacity. You might be out of luck if you want the disc space but like has already been mentioned the iPod will work with other music software. No need to install Itunes.

If you want something that big, you're really limited to the Zune and the iPod Classic. Yes, there are some alternatives to iTunes for the iPod, and the Classic should be one of the models that these work with, but you're still at Apple's mercy to a degree -- there's always the possibility that Apple will do something in the future to block that access. It's unlikely, sure, but you never know

With the Zune, you're totally at Microsoft's mercy -- the Zune software is the only thing that can talk to it, and it's Windows-only, so if you ever decide to get a Mac you could run in to trouble.

My current MP3 player is a Sony Walkman; it's physically a really nice little device, and it works fine on any OS, using either MTP or USB mass storage. If you want a 16GB device, I'd definitely recommend the Walkman line. The only non-Zune, non-iPod device with anything like 80GB of storage is the Creative ZEN line -- you can get 32GB models that can also take a 32GB SD card, to give you a total of 64GB.

SommerMatt wrote:

I have to admit that I don't see what QT could possibly be doing to stop you downloading anything. Downloading things from iTunes? From...? Amazon? Seriously, can't figure that one out.

After I installed QT, every time I tried to download an MP3 from a site, instead of letting me download it, it would open in a new window. Simply would not let me download anything from any site. It took me 3 hair-pullingly long days to fix.

And momgamer - essentially because I am lazy.

I am constantly in the mood for different styles of music, and I have close to 700 cds. Basically I wanted to be able to dump them all on my MP3 player and not have to constantly switch content depending on what I feel like listening to.

pneuman wrote:

The only non-Zune, non-iPod device with anything like 80GB of storage is the Creative ZEN line -- you can get 32GB models that can also take a 32GB SD card, to give you a total of 64GB.

Now that's intriguing. How's their reputation for quality?

momgamer wrote:

For the uses you're listing, why do you need something that huge?

I've got a 4gig SanDisk I've had for over a year that I've been using for just music and a few podcasts and I've yet to fill it up. Now I do grant you that my use isn't all that heavy, but still.

Even if you listen to a LOT of podcasts a week, all you'd need is some decent disk management habits to rotate the one's you've listened to off the box as you add new ones.

It doesn't need any library management software at all - it plugs in as a USB device and it acts like a thumb-drive. I paid $40 for it on sale at Radio Shack (plus another $25 for a pair of headphones that don't make the baby Jeebus cry). I think full price is around $70.

I'm going to second the sandisk. I had one for a bit before I gave it to my fiancé, and I loved it. He really likes it, too. Very easy to use, and the one I had gave the options for deleting files off it without being connected to a computer; very convenient for podcasts and the like. Also has am/fm radio, which is nice if you go to the gym, or like listening to sports. I believe most sandisk use the mini usb cables as well, which is great because at one point I'd used the same cable for my camera, mp3 player, and wacom tablet : )

Creative Zen. I use 60GB Vision, but since you don't want video, you might choose other models. It's sturdy, reliable, with good batteries and you don't need proprietary software. Actually, you can just copy and paste your mp3s and the player does the rest, dividing it neatly into genres, artists, albums etc. Never had a problem with it and I use it for two years now. I can copy music to it directly from MediaMonkey as well, which is just great.

wanderingtaoist wrote:

Creative Zen. I use 60GB Vision, but since you don't want video, you might choose other models. It's sturdy, reliable, with good batteries and you don't need proprietary software. Actually, you can just copy and paste your mp3s and the player does the rest, dividing it neatly into genres, artists, albums etc. Never had a problem with it and I use it for two years now. I can copy music to it directly from MediaMonkey as well, which is just great.

Ditto from me. I've got a 32gb Zen with a 16gb SD card in it as well. Very reliable, recharges from your PC via USB, very easy to use. The Zen I have is SSD as well as opposed to HD, so is very small and effectively has no moving parts other than the on/off slider.

davet010 wrote:
wanderingtaoist wrote:

Creative Zen. I use 60GB Vision, but since you don't want video, you might choose other models. It's sturdy, reliable, with good batteries and you don't need proprietary software. Actually, you can just copy and paste your mp3s and the player does the rest, dividing it neatly into genres, artists, albums etc. Never had a problem with it and I use it for two years now. I can copy music to it directly from MediaMonkey as well, which is just great.

Ditto from me. I've got a 32gb Zen with a 16gb SD card in it as well. Very reliable, recharges from your PC via USB, very easy to use. The Zen I have is SSD as well as opposed to HD, so is very small and effectively has no moving parts other than the on/off slider.

I had a Creative Zen Vision:M 32GB. It was a fantastic MP3 player. Easy to use and as others said, easy to manage in terms of your music library. You've got lots of transfer options and I used to use Winamp with it. While this isn't a feature you were looking for, I LOVED that you could just copy DivX movies right to it and not need to transcode for playback.

I switched to an iPod because I ended up with a hard drive issue with it after it was out of warranty (which was fixed in future versions) and I wanted something larger in capacity that could scrobble my portable listening to Last.fm.

I will also give my vote to Creative for a great, larger capacity iPod alternative that also isn't a Zune.

Keep in mind that Creative does NOT make the "Zen Vision M" any longer. If you want one, you're going to have to go through eBay or some other reseller.

Their current model is the "X-FI," and that no longer uses HDD storage (maxes out at 32GB). AND, from what I've heard, it didn't do so well and Creative is already getting together a new player. Still, you can get the 32GB model right now for around $229.

Question-- I've also heard that the SD card expansion is not seamlessly integrated into the player's built in memory. Is this true? What I mean is, if you put a 16GB sd card into the player, does the player show up as having "48GB," or does it give you two separate file stores?

SommerMatt wrote:

Question-- I've also heard that the SD card expansion is not seamlessly integrated into the player's built in memory. Is this true? What I mean is, if you put a 16GB sd card into the player, does the player show up as having "48GB," or does it give you two separate file stores?

My Sansa shows up as having two storage areas. Probably the same with the Creative players just based on how Windows reads things.

garion333 wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

Question-- I've also heard that the SD card expansion is not seamlessly integrated into the player's built in memory. Is this true? What I mean is, if you put a 16GB sd card into the player, does the player show up as having "48GB," or does it give you two separate file stores?

My Sansa shows up as having two storage areas. Probably the same with the Creative players just based on how Windows reads things.

Does that mean that you can't "shuffle all," but rather have to change directories to access the other songs?

Isn't Apple expected to come up with a refreshed iPods line sometime in September? It might be wise to hold on with purchasing anything big-ticket (say >$200) until then.

That excuse never flies with the mods.

This is exactly right. Please don't make us move threads around because you want to bend the rules.

SommerMatt wrote:

Keep in mind that Creative does NOT make the "Zen Vision M" any longer. If you want one, you're going to have to go through eBay or some other reseller.

That's a good point to note. I didn't mean to come off recommended only that specific model.

SommerMatt wrote:

Does that mean that you can't "shuffle all," but rather have to change directories to access the other songs?

That would be a shame, considering one of my favourite things about it (again referencing the Vision:M specifically) was that you had one button you could configure to whatever you wanted. I always set it up as Shuffle All in case I got bored of a particular playlist and wanted to instantly shuffle the deck.

SommerMatt wrote:
garion333 wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

Question-- I've also heard that the SD card expansion is not seamlessly integrated into the player's built in memory. Is this true? What I mean is, if you put a 16GB sd card into the player, does the player show up as having "48GB," or does it give you two separate file stores?

My Sansa shows up as having two storage areas. Probably the same with the Creative players just based on how Windows reads things.

Does that mean that you can't "shuffle all," but rather have to change directories to access the other songs?

The Sansa shuffles everything. It just don't show up as one "entity" in Windows.

I'm still confused, no offense, on why iTunes is stopping you from considering the iPod and why iTunes won't work for you. What OS? Is it tweaked significantly? I've been running iTunes for 3 years or so on anything from a cheap laptop to a high-end $700 laptop.

momgamer wrote:

I've got a 4gig SanDisk I've had for over a year that I've been using for just music and a few podcasts and I've yet to fill it up. Now I do grant you that my use isn't all that heavy, but still.

My collection of The Cure cds is probably over 4 gigs.

There are two types of people, those who listen to hits and others who listen to albums.

I have 80 gigs of music on my iPod and I like the convenience of being able to listen to any album I want whenever I want. It's all in there.

stauf7 wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

Does that mean that you can't "shuffle all," but rather have to change directories to access the other songs?

That would be a shame, considering one of my favourite things about it (again referencing the Vision:M specifically) was that you had one button you could configure to whatever you wanted. I always set it up as Shuffle All in case I got bored of a particular playlist and wanted to instantly shuffle the deck.

garion333 wrote:

The Sansa shuffles everything. It just don't show up as one "entity" in Windows.

OK, so it integrates everything instantly in the menu on the player? As in, if you search alphabetical by "Artist," it will take everything from the onboard memory and the sd card and put them in seemless order?

If so, then that seems like a solid, inexpensive solution.

interstate78 wrote:
momgamer wrote:

I've got a 4gig SanDisk I've had for over a year that I've been using for just music and a few podcasts and I've yet to fill it up. Now I do grant you that my use isn't all that heavy, but still.

My collection of The Cure cds is probably over 4 gigs.

There are two types of people, those who listen to hits and others who listen to albums.

I have 80 gigs of music on my iPod and I like the convenience of being able to listen to any album I want whenever I want. It's all in there.

There are also those who put all their songs in some kind of lossless codec, and others who don't care all that much. 4 gigs of The Cure? I'm guessing you're one of those lossless types, aren't you?

I have over 5,000 songs on my ipod, taking up about 25GB. Most of them are ripped at 192kbps, though, so it's very easy to have your entire collection on a much smaller player.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Isn't Apple expected to come up with a refreshed iPods line sometime in September? It might be wise to hold on with purchasing anything big-ticket (say >$200) until then.

Good god, I frigging HOPE so. I've been waiting for a 64GB iPod Touch for two years, and I hope Apple finally delivers in Sept.

So far, what I've seen is a YET AGAIN redesigned Nano with a camera on the back, as well as a new model Touch with a camera.

DSGamer wrote:

I'm still confused, no offense, on why iTunes is stopping you from considering the iPod and why iTunes won't work for you. What OS? Is it tweaked significantly? I've been running iTunes for 3 years or so on anything from a cheap laptop to a high-end $700 laptop. :)

I honestly still don't get this either. I mean, I know that if you click on a link to an MP3 file that your browser will launch the QT plug-in and start to play it, but that is solved by a simple right click "save target/link as" command.

The connector on my Zune got damaged (through no fault of its own or my own, but let's just say I've learned my lesson about 3rd party power adapters!).

So I'm in the market for an MP3 player again.

I dig the Zune a lot, as I've been a major Zune supporter here, but I have grown weary of the fact that it's encrypted "handshake" has kept it locked out of Linux. iPod Classics, meanwhile, are well supported via libgpod, which a lot of music manager software uses.

The other thing I missed on the Zune is the iPod's programmable playlists. The Zune has very remedial programmable "autoplaylists", but with the iPod, I was able to use a few layers of logic to create my own "radio stations" of sort.

One thing I have to have, which disqualifies a lot of music players, is solid native podcast support. I listen to podcasts during my commute almost every workday. A player that doesn't have native podcast handling (which means organizing them separately, listing their names and stuff by what's in the RSS feed and not their usually-malformed ID3 tags, and cleaning out listened-to podcasts after I've played them) is simply not an option.

What players besides the iPod and Zune have this sort of podcast capability? Players like the Zen sound interesting, but posts like this make me think twice.

My ideal would be something that handles podcasts, is usable from within Linux (though I will deal with VMs if necessary), and has the Zune's audio quality and "automatic" (if not perfect) gapless playback. The iPod Classics are close, any chance the latest revisions improved the audio quality? The iPods have gapless playback but that metadata has to be calculated by iTunes, I think... so I don't know if I would get gapless playback by managing through a libgpod player (have to look into that).

EDIT: It looks like libgpod may indeed support the iPod gapless metadata. Hmmmm. I just wish the Zune had real programmable playlists and Linux support, I wouldn't even consider anything else. I'd really miss the Zune landscape video screen going to an iPod Classic, and I'm certainly not spending a bajillion dollars to get an iPod Touch that isn't pathetic in storage space.

If you have a decent rig, iTunes is not that big of a deal. It will run the iPod and Bonjour service in the background and you can disable Quicktime from running at startup if it bothers you. I play games with iTunes running sometimes and haven't had any problems. The music is .99 now and DRM free, so it is a good service.

I recommend an iPod, or better yet, an iPhone if your contract is coming up. Having one less device to tote around has been great. I love mine. The browser is horribly slow, even over WiFi, but other than that it is great.

Other then the iPod, I would say Zune. It is great player and it supports podcasts. Last time I used the software, though, it was REALLY slow. That was quite a while ago so I hope they fixed it or just went with WMP.

If you want just a cheap and dirty mp3 player, the Sansa Clip is amazing. It is amazing because it sounds incredible. Pair it with a good pair of cheap headphones (Koss Porta Pros, Koss KSC75's, Sennheiser PC100s) and you will be in portable musical bliss. Podcasts just show up as music tracks though. Bummer.

*Legion* wrote:

What players besides the iPod and Zune have this sort of podcast capability? Players like the Zen sound interesting, but posts like this make me think twice.

That Zen linked above isn't the most current model from Creative, AFAIK. Maybe things have improved.

I'm surprised you're not waiting for the Zune HD (although your other problems with the Zune in general might not be solved in this new iteration I suppose).

The MP3 player market has really shrunk these past few years. If you want more than 32GB of storage, you have no other choice BUT an iPod or a Zune.

SommerMatt wrote:

I'm surprised you're not waiting for the Zune HD (although your other problems with the Zune in general might not be solved in this new iteration I suppose).

Zune HD is - initially, at least - a flash memory device instead of hard-drive based, meaning you can expect a similar price/storage configuration as the iPod Touches. Paying a ton of money for 16GB of storage is a no-go for me. The hard drive Zunes will eventually get updated as well, but from what I read (though I haven't been keeping an extremely close eye), the hard drive players will get updated eventually, but not right away.

But, like you point out, this isn't likely to solve my main issues with the player. Cracking the MTPZ handshake probably isn't on the horizon. And the programmable playlist thing is just dumb, because Windows Media Player 11's programmable playlists do everything the iPod/iTunes' ones do. But the Zune software is crippled in this regard. So lame.

It's so disappointing because I simply can't say enough good things to say about the hardware itself. It's been an awesome device, the software support (and its encrypted handshake keeping all 3rd party software out) is just failing it. At least in the areas I want, which certainly are more demanding, "power user" stuff. I still won't hesitate to scream "Zune!" at a typical Windows user wanting a good MP3 player.

That Zen linked above isn't the most current model from Creative, AFAIK. Maybe things have improved.

Yeah, I was throwing that out there in hopes someone that's actually touched a Zen might speak up with some first-hand knowledge.

The MP3 player market has really shrunk these past few years. If you want more than 32GB of storage, you have no other choice BUT an iPod or a Zune.

This is quickly becoming apparent. It's very disappointing. Flash memory storage just isn't there - 32GB isn't a lot, but it sure costs a whole lot!

SommerMatt wrote:
stauf7 wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

Does that mean that you can't "shuffle all," but rather have to change directories to access the other songs?

That would be a shame, considering one of my favourite things about it (again referencing the Vision:M specifically) was that you had one button you could configure to whatever you wanted. I always set it up as Shuffle All in case I got bored of a particular playlist and wanted to instantly shuffle the deck.

garion333 wrote:

The Sansa shuffles everything. It just don't show up as one "entity" in Windows.

OK, so it integrates everything instantly in the menu on the player? As in, if you search alphabetical by "Artist," it will take everything from the onboard memory and the sd card and put them in seemless order?

Yes. Yes.

My biggest gripe with the Sansa is playlists. There's one called the "Go" that you can add songs to while using the player, but to make playlists otherwise is such a pain in the ass I've yet to be able to figure it out. Someone made a program to do it, but it wasn't compatible with my model and firmware version. Otherwise the Sandisk Sansa has been great for me as an alternative to an iPod. I just refuse to pay so much for something. Sorry, Apple.

Oh, and based on legions link about the Zen, the Sansa (or whatever Sandisk is making now) allows you to resume from last stop. And it has fm and voice recording (and pictures and videos if you have a screen). And the battery last FOREVER. And. And. And.