What's a good DRAG-AND-DROP MP3 player?

Sure, everyone wants a good MP3 player.

But me, I want a good drag-and-drop MP3 player. I don't have my music sorted by artist and album, I have my music sorted a couple different ways. I have my Music folder, and in that folder will be all the sub-folders, but ALSO in that folder is all of the one-off songs I have. Also in my Music folder I'll have [Genre] folders, e.g. Country, Movie OSTs, Game OSTs, etc. where all music falling into those genres is and then IN those folders it gets sorted by Artist\Album. And then if I have a one-off album or artist, that just goes in the main Music folder. So in the end, my music is all properly tagged, but that's not how I think of it, and to use a ID3 tag-sorted player is... painful.

So. As the subject says. What's a good drag-and-drop file browser-type MP3 viewer these days? Currently I use an iRiver H360 with Rockbox for that purpose, but I've gone through three of them and I'd like to get something a little more modern. Being able to buy it new instead of used would be a plus. :p

Thanks!

EDIT: Cliff's:

I want a DAP with a file browser view, not a database view.

There.

I have a Sony Walkman A818 and it's excellent -- it's very solid, the UI is clear and simple, the sound quality is excellent, and the pack-in earphones are an in-ear type and are actually worth a damn. You can browse it iPod-style based on Artist/Album tags, or you can just use the folder view. I'd definitely check out the current Walkman models to see if any take your fancy.

Thanks, I'll do that. Someone on another forum also mentioned the Sansa View, I'm also taking a look at the Creative Zen line.

You could go with an iPod (if you would like to own one) and use WinAmp. I tried RockBox on my iPod so as to get rid of iTunes. I didn't like RockBox for a number of reasons, namely the lack of battery life. So I got WinAmp 5.whatever, and re-installed the iPod firmware. You can set up the WinAmp Library to scan specific folders for music regardless of your physical organization, and you can simply drag each file onto the MP3 player (iPod or not). Plus, WinAmp will organize the mp3s just the same as iTunes or any other music program, without re-sorting the files themselves on the drive-- so your physical folders can be FUBAR and the music program will still show the mp3s in an organized fashion.

Also, if you want to share music on your iPod, install a WinAmp stand-alone on the player. Any computer you plug it into will be able to open WinAmp, then all you need to do is set the Music Library folder for that computer and you can share your music with friends (were you so inclined, you no-good music pirating thief ).

Aside from my iPod (I guess it's a 5th Gen Video now? I dunno, it's 60Gb though), I bought a Sansa Clip for my wife. A 2Gb player with nice battery life, good sound quality, and a small screen to show what's actually playing, unlike the iPod Shuffle.

PS. I speak so much about the iPods simply because they are pretty much the gold standard for MP3 players. Creative Zens are great now that they aren't laptop HDDs with a screen (I had a Zen back in the day-- 4 or 5 years ago. Nice if you want to buy a 120Gb laptop HDD and upgrade your player Horrible if you want to keep it in the pocket of your tight hipster pants). I've heard good things about the Zunes, but I never looked into them enough to know for myself. And my experience with Sansa's Clip makes me think the rest of Sansa's lineup probably isn't half bad, either.

WipEout wrote:

You can set up the WinAmp Library to scan specific folders for music regardless of your physical organization, and you can simply drag each file onto the MP3 player (iPod or not). Plus, WinAmp will organize the mp3s just the same as iTunes or any other music program, without re-sorting the files themselves on the drive-- so your physical folders can be FUBAR and the music program will still show the mp3s in an organized fashion.

Sorry I wasn't clear in my OP- that is exactly what I don't want. I want to look at my music as I have organized it, not as tags dictate.

Understandable-- but tags or not, WinAmp can still list the files and allow drag-and-drop onto the player I'm assuming, though, that you simply don't want a middleman type of software at all. In which case, I would recommend a Sansa player-- they are nice little deals and load up as a simple flash drive when plugged in. At least the Sansa Clip does.

Apologies if I'm being obvious, but have you checked out any newer iRivers? The older ones must have been to your taste if you went through three of them.

I'm a big fan of my little 1 year old 1GB S10, but I'm not sure what the bigger ones are like.

Edited since I can't type tonight...

WipEout wrote:

Understandable-- but tags or not, WinAmp can still list the files and allow drag-and-drop onto the player I'm assuming, though, that you simply don't want a middleman type of software at all. In which case, I would recommend a Sansa player-- they are nice little deals and load up as a simple flash drive when plugged in. At least the Sansa Clip does.

I think the main thing the OP wants is filesystem-level browsing on the device -- it's how the iPod handles files solely based on tags that's the problem, not the software needed to copy it over.

I'd also back up the Creative and Sandisk recommendations. Creative devices use MTP, rather than running as USB mass storage devices, but AFAIK (I'm a Linux user, so I've never tried myself) Windows Explorer makes MTP devices look like filesystems transparently. iRiver, Samsung, and Cowon are good options, too, though I still prefer my Walkman

pneuman wrote:

I'd also back up the Creative and Sandisk recommendations. Creative devices use MTP, rather than running as USB mass storage devices, but AFAIK (I'm a Linux user, so I've never tried myself) Windows Explorer makes MTP devices look like filesystems transparently. iRiver, Samsung, and Cowon are good options, too, though I still prefer my Walkman :)

I used to have a Creative Zen Vision:M (30GB) and it was great for drag-&-drop transfers from Windows Explorer. I believe if you install their software it also adds the device to your "Send To" right click commands so it's even easier.

The Sansa player, at least as of about eighteen months ago, was a complete disaster when used as drag-and-drop. The only way it would work properly was by using the included, horrible Best Buy software. I believe it only understands tags, and if you drag-and-drop, it doesn't scan them properly, resulting in a horrific mess. I don't remember the exact details anymore, but my simple goal was:

A) Load music onto the device;
B) Select an album to play and have it play start to finish.

That's it. This was not possible without the Best Buy software. Listing by album or artist just didn't work if you dragged-and-dropped.

I don't remember any ability to navigate file structures, but I don't use my players that way, and my memory is much poorer than it once was.

Interesting OP. Why don't you want to use modern database-based mp3 playing software?

Seems like it is the best of both worlds. You can still view your music anyway you like. And you get the convenience of the automatic labeling and sorting among many other features.

....."You can even change the information to suit your needs.

For example, you might want to:


Group individual movements on a classical CD into one work by indicating the movement (for example, “Piano concerto in A Minor, Op. 54”) in the Grouping field.


Group songs that are part of a compilation together in your library by selecting the “Part of a compilation” checkbox. Then choose iTunes > Preferences, click Advanced, and then select “Group compilations when browsing.”


Identify the individual artists on a tribute album in the Artist field, and then type “various” in the Album Artist field.


Create your own genre category by choosing Custom from the Genre pop-up menu.


Change the order in which tracks on a CD play by changing the numbers in the Track Number fields.


Create a Smart Playlist that includes only songs that are just the right speed for your workout by adding the number of beats per minute to the BPM field.


Identify a movie as a music video (click the Video tab and then choose Music Video from the Video Kind pop-up menu).


Click the Sorting tab and enter custom text to sort by.
"

Well, number one, I don't like iPods or iTunes. I used both for several months (had a previous-gen nano). I would like Rockbox's database more if I could interface with it through a computer program, though.

Number two, here's what my music folder looks like:

www.aldstella.com/temp/musicfolder20... (can't get the img tag to work and no time to fix)

There's a portion of my music folder. I have collection folders with albums and/or artists inside them (e.g. Trucking Songs), individual artist folders (e.g. Tori Amos, VNV Nation), album+artist folders (e.g. the Trocadero folder, the Warner Bros folder which is 4 CDs worth of music). I've had my music sorted in that haphazard way for years, and it's how I think of my music. I also had a Zune 80GB for several months but I hated having to create OTF playlists that way. I don't think "Hm, lets listen to [insert genre/album/artist]", I think, "Hm, lets listen to [this song from one genre] then [this song from another genre]", so on and so forth. I very rarely listen to a whole string of music that's one album/artist/genre. Oh, and OTF playlists are important because I don't create playlists at my computer, I create playlists hundreds of tracks long while I'm doing whatever I'm doing, adding songs as the mood hits me. That's not too relevant but whatever.

I'll expand more later if you're curious, I've got a funeral to run to now!

P.S. FWIW I went from a Zune 80GB to currently using a Zune 8GB for listening to podcasts and audiobooks.

Yeah I don't think I quite get it.

You want your mp3 player to have the ability to manually create playlists with no help from the computer?

That's one of the things I want, yep.

You should look at Rockbox. The default config isn't very pretty (although you can make it more so if you want to), but if you look at the feature list, you'll get an idea of what I'm looking for. I realize I won't find that feature set anywhere else, but hey, I can dream.

Maybe it's easier if I say that, even though all of my music is properly tagged, that's not how I sort it and that's not how I want to listen to it.

I add my vote to getting anything from the Creative Zen line! They work great, and it's rare for them to have any kind of problems. If they do, you can fix it yourself and don't have to send it off.

Mine is a discontinued model from 4-5 years ago and it still works amazingly well. Not to mention they're very sturdy, so if you drop it, it won't die on you.

General Crespin wrote:

Maybe it's easier if I say that, even though all of my music is properly tagged, that's not how I sort it and that's not how I want to listen to it.

Well I don't think that helps, but....

I think I am getting to the bottom of what you are trying to say though.

This is how I understand you after reading a few posts:

You have a specific requirement that the next mp3 player you buy handle your music natively in the Windows file system format.

Nothing to do with listening to your music how you want because you can do that on the Ipod and probably the Zune and whatever else. Those systems also have custom sorting options and the ability to easily make OTF playlists or at least the iPod does.

So is that more accurate?

I think he's also saying that he just wants to browse his filesystem and pick music that way, not abstracted through a database.

Malor wrote:

I think he's also saying that he just wants to browse his filesystem and pick music that way, not abstracted through a database.

Yeah that's about what I said afaik.

I guess I didn't pay total attention because I see that someone else sort of said that too in one of their replies, but I missed it.

Anyway to each their own. I guess I saw the word painful and didn't quite understand, but it more about the OP wanting his music in a folder format than anything else.

trip1eX wrote:

Nothing to do with listening to your music how you want because you can do that on the Ipod and probably the Zune and whatever else.

Yeah, that was probably a bad choice of words on my end. But hey, you understand now.

And I'm all the better for it. I just gotta learn the language.

Dominic Knight wrote:

I add my vote to getting anything from the Creative Zen line! They work great, and it's rare for them to have any kind of problems. If they do, you can fix it yourself and don't have to send it off.

Mine is a discontinued model from 4-5 years ago and it still works amazingly well. Not to mention they're very sturdy, so if you drop it, it won't die on you.

Are you talking about the Creative NOMAD Jukebox Zen? Because that had a laptop HDD in it (as did all the NOMAD players, until Creative dropped the NOMAD line and continued with the much-simpler "Zen Micro"), and after I dropped mine in the elevator of my old job the HDD disk shattered to pieces inside. It finished the 1 track that was in the buffer then wouldn't play anything anymore. That's when I found out you could replace the HDD with any laptop drive, reformat it and re-install the firmware and have a 120Gb MP3 player (was the largest laptop HD available at the time). The problem with the Nomad Jukebox was that it couldn't be recognized as a flash drive in Windows unless you manually install the drivers on the computer to which you want to hook the player up. A huge PITA when you need to transfer large files from home to school, the main reason I bought a 60Gb MP3 player in the first place.

WipEout wrote:

Are you talking about the Creative NOMAD Jukebox Zen? Because that had a laptop HDD in it (as did all the NOMAD players, until Creative dropped the NOMAD line and continued with the much-simpler "Zen Micro"), and after I dropped mine in the elevator of my old job the HDD disk shattered to pieces inside. It finished the 1 track that was in the buffer then wouldn't play anything anymore. That's when I found out you could replace the HDD with any laptop drive, reformat it and re-install the firmware and have a 120Gb MP3 player (was the largest laptop HD available at the time). The problem with the Nomad Jukebox was that it couldn't be recognized as a flash drive in Windows unless you manually install the drivers on the computer to which you want to hook the player up. A huge PITA when you need to transfer large files from home to school, the main reason I bought a 60Gb MP3 player in the first place.

Hmm.. I believe so. Mine is a Creative Zen Touch. It's discontinued, but mine still works after having been dropped twice on the sidewalk while walking home from school.

Their older mp3 players definitely had a lot of faults, but their newer ones are at least improving. Not to mention the sound quality is really amazing.

Honestly, despite everything, I'd still have to offer up the iPod. It can do playlists without a PC handy, and as for keeping your music organized as it is, do it by genre, with every top level folder being one. Or shoot, every folder containing mp3s as one. From there, drag and drop to the iPod, and you're done. Tell it not to organize your music, and presto, you're set.

That said, I can understand not wanting one, though.

I totally say the Zen line is totally cool. I got a Zen Photo 30 gig(?) and a 8 gig Zen micro and they are both easy to use. Just drag and drop music in and then I can just go random on a tracks or select by album, or artist or even search for a track using keyword.

I have only messed with an iPod for a short time the main reason why I avoided them is because of all the crappy DRM but I think that is all going away so I might check them out if one of my zen's die.. but they are pretty rugged as I was running for exercise with my photo zen with a HDD before it dawned on me I was swinging a moving HDD around like mad while doing this.

Raising up the thread.

My second ipod shuffle died this week. I am interested in a drag and drop mp3 player about the size of a first or second generation ipod shuffle with a clip on it. 1 gig would be fine.

I do not like the third generation ipod shuffle and my first generation and second generation shuffles died after 2 years of moderate use. So I am willing to give something else a try. I only use it during exercise.

Any suggestions?

I have a Sandisk Sansa that works that way, has better audio quality than any of the few iPod's I've ever heard, and still works after a year and a half or so of heavy use and now the occasional use for very specific things.

I don't know what they have in the tiny 1gb clip-on style, but I'm sure there's something.

One more vote for a Sansa (the older "e" series in particular).

With Rockbox, you can indeed navigate through files the same way you navigate through the music database on the device itself. From the computer, you can access the player's memory from your computer like a USB stick instead of navigating through some marketer's fever dream version of usability. I often use mine for hours at a stretch to listen to podcasts while working around the house, and this <$50 miracle box still works like a champ after an insane amount of abuse over the last couple of years.

The last update to the Rockbox software has made significant battery life improvements. Even after playing around with it all day, the battery shows up as nearly full.

I bought a Sansa for my mother from Best Buy. It was not drag-and-drop -- it did not correctly parse id3 tags unless the music was loaded with the horrible Best Buy software, sort of like a special-ed iTunes. It was awkward and stupid and hard to use. The wheel on the front was so sharp that it cut the skin on my thumbs from spinning it.

The sound quality was reasonable, though not great -- better than my 1G iPhone by miles, but nowhere near as nice as my old 40G iPod from years back.

Overall, I was Not Impressed. What I wanted was a player where I could just drop a bunch of folders into it and it would figure it out. It did not do this without help from the software on the computer, and the computer software was HORRIBLE. I do NOT recommend Sansas _at all_.

I don't know if Zunes are drag-and-drop, but they might be an option.

Malor wrote:

Overall, I was Not Impressed. What I wanted was a player where I could just drop a bunch of folders into it and it would figure it out. It did not do this without help from the software on the computer, and the computer software was HORRIBLE. I do NOT recommend Sansas _at all_.

The default software on Sansas is indeed garbage, both on the computer and device side. Combined with a Rockbox firmware replacement, though, you have inexpensive, solid hardware and a really powerful set of tools to make it work for you. I wouldn't trade mine for any other player in the world.

I'll repeat my recommendation from the top of the thread -- check out the Sony Walkman range. The devices themselves are well designed and very solid (Sony usually makes pretty nice hardware), have excellent sound quality, and the current models are all simple drag-and-drop, with no software required. I routinely move mine between Mac OS X and Linux, and I've occasionally plugged it in to a Windows machine too, and it's always worked very well.

Malor wrote:

I don't know if Zunes are drag-and-drop, but they might be an option.

I think they're actually worse than iPods -- you do need the Zune software, and it only runs on the one platform. MS could so easily support drag-and-drop, too, since the Zune uses the MTP standard, but it uses a bastardised version of it that only works with the Zune software.

Malor wrote:

I bought a Sansa for my mother from Best Buy. It was not drag-and-drop -- it did not correctly parse id3 tags unless the music was loaded with the horrible Best Buy software, sort of like a special-ed iTunes. It was awkward and stupid and hard to use. The wheel on the front was so sharp that it cut the skin on my thumbs from spinning it.

What model was that? Mine came from Best Buy, came with no songs, and was drag-and-drop out of the box.