Questions you want answered.

Agemmon wrote:
Marsman wrote:

My 7 year old daughter asked me question this morning I couldn't answer. This in itself is not uncommon. But the question was interesting, so I'll pose it here.

"Do the Japanese have any bad hand signs?"

At first I was not clear on her question, but she further explained by giving me the finger.

"Oh, that kind of hand sign. I don't know."

I told her that giving the finger was pretty universal and that it represented the guy's hoo-ha. (She giggled, of course.) I told her it was the grand daddy of all bad swears and very, very rude.

I believe my exact quote was, "Don't do it at school or the teacher will kick your ass."

So, are there any particularly Japanese hand signs?

Tengu (Long-nosed goblin)
Describes a conceited braggart. A clenched fist held in front of the face, suggesting a long nose, like the goblin Tengu.

Pa! (Coo-Coo!, Crazy!)
Place a fist along side the head and open it quickly, suggests someone is stupid or crazy. Used both in fun or in criticism, as in the West.

While you're at it, feel free to explain the tongue+pulled-open eye thing, and the over-abused peace sign. I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for either.

wordsmythe wrote:

While you're at it, feel free to explain the tongue+pulled-open eye thing, and the over-abused peace sign. I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for either.

Do you mean the [size=20]☮[/size] sign or the V-sign? Either way, the first originated by combining the semaphore (as in one flag in each hand) signs for N and D, which stood for Nuclear Disarmament. Just sorta got picked up from there. As for the V-sign it started as a shortening for victory, but got picked up by the hippie movement and used as a greeting between themselves along with saying "peace" or "love". Guess it just entered normal culture after that.

Now the I really don't understand which gesture this "tongue+pulled-open eye thing" is. You know where its from?

Agemmon wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

While you're at it, feel free to explain the tongue+pulled-open eye thing, and the over-abused peace sign. I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for either.

Do you mean the [size=20]☮[/size] sign or the V-sign? Either way, the first originated by combining the semaphore (as in one flag in each hand) signs for N and D, which stood for Nuclear Disarmament. Just sorta got picked up from there. As for the V-sign it started as a shortening for victory, but got picked up by the hippie movement and used as a greeting between themselves along with saying "peace" or "love". Guess it just entered normal culture after that.

But why do the Japanese do it in all of their pictures?

adam.greenbrier wrote:
Agemmon wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

While you're at it, feel free to explain the tongue+pulled-open eye thing, and the over-abused peace sign. I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for either.

Do you mean the [size=20]☮[/size] sign or the V-sign? Either way, the first originated by combining the semaphore (as in one flag in each hand) signs for N and D, which stood for Nuclear Disarmament. Just sorta got picked up from there. As for the V-sign it started as a shortening for victory, but got picked up by the hippie movement and used as a greeting between themselves along with saying "peace" or "love". Guess it just entered normal culture after that.

But why do the Japanese do it in all of their pictures?

Really don't know. I've studied some of this stuff, but never really got into Japanese at all. Got those above from a textbook we actually seldom use. Maybe they just don't understand the expression, yet use them anyway. Sorta like Americans getting Chinese signs without having a clue what it means

adam.greenbrier wrote:
Agemmon wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

While you're at it, feel free to explain the tongue+pulled-open eye thing, and the over-abused peace sign. I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for either.

Do you mean the [size=20]☮[/size] sign or the V-sign? Either way, the first originated by combining the semaphore (as in one flag in each hand) signs for N and D, which stood for Nuclear Disarmament. Just sorta got picked up from there. As for the V-sign it started as a shortening for victory, but got picked up by the hippie movement and used as a greeting between themselves along with saying "peace" or "love". Guess it just entered normal culture after that.

But why do the Japanese do it in all of their pictures?

I think that would explain it. Maybe they think it looks cool or something?

adam.greenbrier wrote:
Agemmon wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

While you're at it, feel free to explain the tongue+pulled-open eye thing, and the over-abused peace sign. I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for either.

Do you mean the [size=20]☮[/size] sign or the V-sign? Either way, the first originated by combining the semaphore (as in one flag in each hand) signs for N and D, which stood for Nuclear Disarmament. Just sorta got picked up from there. As for the V-sign it started as a shortening for victory, but got picked up by the hippie movement and used as a greeting between themselves along with saying "peace" or "love". Guess it just entered normal culture after that.

But why do the Japanese do it in all of their pictures?

@ word: Called akanbe in Japan and mon oeil in France and Québec, this is the act of pulling down one lower eyelid and sticking out the tongue and saying "Bii-daa!" (Japanese) or "Nyaaaah!" (English dub). A highly ritualized expression of disdain or disapproval, used exclusively by children and immature adults. Basically the same as the Western act of sticking out the tongue, cranked up a few notches.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...

V sign is that every one in Japan wants Va jay jay!

As usual, Wikipedia has an explanation.

adam.greenbrier wrote:

As usual, Wikipedia has an explanation.

So the answer is "somebody did it in the early 70s and it's somehow still cool"?

wordsmythe wrote:
adam.greenbrier wrote:

As usual, Wikipedia has an explanation.

So the answer is "somebody did it in the early 70s and it's somehow still cool"?

More or less. The answer I got from a Japanese friend of mine is that it's something that children have taken up as something you just do when you get your picture taken. It's like saying "cheese," without the added benefit of making you smile.

Hope all these origin stories of the V sign and peace symbol are new to someone. I was still talking within the confines of Japanese mannerisms.

The 'V' for victory sign came from the battles between the French and English. The English had deadly long-bowmen and whenever the French caught one, they would cut off his bow fingers. Waving the two fingers, still attached to the hand, at the French became in insult.

Link

('V' for victory is done with palm in. Peace is done with palm out.)

wordsmythe wrote:

Hope all these origin stories of the V sign and peace symbol are new to someone. I was still talking within the confines of Japanese mannerisms.

Educating the masses one thread derail at a time.

I derailed my own topic!

Marsman wrote:

The 'V' for victory sign came from the battles between the French and English. The English had deadly long-bowmen and whenever the French caught one, they would cut off his bow fingers. Waving the two fingers, still attached to the hand, at the French became in insult.

Link

('V' for victory is done with palm in. Peace is done with palm out.)

Actually, V for victory is more commonly palm out these days (I think Churchill did it both ways) to distinguish it from the palm in 'two fingered salute' which is the UK equivalent of the middle finger. We don't tend to do the middle finger in the UK but most people would understand it. I remember as a teen and being confused when I saw people using the middle finger in films. Fortunately, the context in which it was used soon gave me a clue as to it's meaning.

wordsmythe wrote:

Hope all these origin stories of the V sign and peace symbol are new to someone. I was still talking within the confines of Japanese mannerisms.

Think of it as a thumbs up sign, on a much more culturally integrated scale. We don't really equate it with peace, it's just a commonly used hand sign when having our picture taken.

How does the "credit rate" thingie work exactly? I've seen it pop up many times at GWJ, and I understand the basic premisse behind it, but I'm very eager to find out more.

Where I live (Opwijk, Belgium, Europe) my VISA expenses for the prior month are substracted automatically from my normal bank account. This always happens right after my paycheck appears on my account, which is very handy/dangerous (depending on how adventurous one is). Over here there's no plethora of credit cards either. Visa pretty much dominates the market, although some supermarkets are starting their alternative too. Mastercard is a small player.

When we negotiate a loan at the bank, they pull your debt numbers out of a central database and compare it to your paycheck and your savings up to that day. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that of course, but that's the jist of it. Is the credit rate like a loan database where every customer has an easy way of interpreting it through a score in numbers? Or am I getting it wrong?

Higgledy wrote:

Actually, V for victory is more commonly palm out these days (I think Churchill did it both ways) to distinguish it from the palm in 'two fingered salute' which is the UK equivalent of the middle finger.

Now does that require a simultaneous raspberry or is that optional?

Quintin_Stone wrote:
Higgledy wrote:

Actually, V for victory is more commonly palm out these days (I think Churchill did it both ways) to distinguish it from the palm in 'two fingered salute' which is the UK equivalent of the middle finger.

Now does that require a simultaneous raspberry or is that optional?

You only include the raspberry when the person your targeting is of a higher class than you.

Noted!

Oh, I heard talk that the word "ninja" was, well not exactly a dirty word, but maybe a bit vulgar in England/the UK (see "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles"). Is there any truth to that? If so, what's the explanation.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Noted!

Oh, I heard talk that the word "ninja" was, well not exactly a dirty word, but maybe a bit vulgar in England/the UK (see "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles"). Is there any truth to that? If so, what's the explanation.

According to IMDB they thought "ninja" was too violent for UK children. Strange.

Zelos wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Noted!

Oh, I heard talk that the word "ninja" was, well not exactly a dirty word, but maybe a bit vulgar in England/the UK (see "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles"). Is there any truth to that? If so, what's the explanation.

According to IMDB they thought "ninja" was too violent for UK children. Strange.

There is no good reason to object to the word ninja as far as I can see. It isn't a match for any vulgar words in the UK. I guess they must have thought it was too violent or too mystical maybe. A weird decision considering that, whatever they were called, the turtles were still wielding samurai swords.

Ninjas are vulgar bottom-feeders that can't stand the light of day. Now, pirates on the other hand ... .

Zombie ninja pirates!

IMAGE(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1218/1003417846_204d7eeb8f.jpg)

I don't know, that looks more like a ninja pirate zombie robot.

adam.greenbrier wrote:

I don't know, that looks more like a ninja pirate zombie robot.

Or like a zombie pirate robot breakdancer.

wordsmythe wrote:

Ninjas are vulgar bottom-feeders that can't stand the light of day. Now, pirates on the other hand ... .

Sounds like someone's got a case of Katana-envy.

lostlobster wrote:
adam.greenbrier wrote:

I don't know, that looks more like a ninja pirate zombie robot.

Or like a zombie pirate robot breakdancer.

Get down corpse, g'won, get down. Get down lich, g'won, get down!

Ethical dilemma. Earlier today I saw a pair of rare books by holocaust-denying nutjob historian David Irving at a thrift store. They're worth $$$ on eBay. Should I buy these abominations, if my sole intent is to sell them?

ExitPursuedByBear wrote:

Ethical dilemma. Earlier today I saw a pair of rare books by holocaust-denying nutjob historian David Irving at a thrift store. They're worth $$$ on eBay. Should I buy these abominations, if my sole intent is to sell them?

Well, if they are at a thrift store, he isn't getting any money from the sale.

Yeah, and then use the money for good to annoy him, and balance it all out.