Left 4 Dead 2 - Catch All

Podunk wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

All "perception" issues and whatnot aside, which is what I think the real hubub is about, the most legitimate problem with this announcement is turning the first L4D into a ghost-town ahead of its time. What I really, really want from this game is full-on integration, with L4D1 - so I can see all VS games spanning campaigns from both maps in the same engine. If that doesn't happen, L4D1 will be abandoned, as everyone will just naturally gravitate to the later. I still have fun playing maps like No Mercy and whatnot, and I feel like announcing a sequel to L4D without any support for the old game would just be "replacing" content rather than "adding" content.

I am with you 100% on this.

Add another 100%. The only thing tampering my excitement is sadness of leaving L4D so soon.

Does it seem likely that the art design will take a bit of a grittier look before release? It looks a tad cartoony now, which I'm hoping is either because A) Valve is smarter than me or 2) the art will likely continue to progress before November.

Podunk wrote:

I don't have a link to back this up yet, but I'm being told that the original L4D campaigns will be included in L4D2, and that Valve will continue to support L4D.

If this pans out as true, then I will have a hard time deciding if Valve is even smarter than we thought by letting people get pissed just to soothe them soon after, or just a bit clueless for not making it known right with the announcement. If this is true than it changes everything.

Have they announced that they will no longer provide any updates with L4D? If not, then I'm not sure that LfD2 kills any of the potential in updates. It limits it, sure, but it isn't as if we have any idea how many and when would be coming anyway.

Really, really REALLY glad I didn't pay full price for L4D now. I'm still sad though because I'm just starting to get the hang of the game, and it sounds like by the holidays everyone else will have moved on.

Atras wrote:
Podunk wrote:

I don't have a link to back this up yet, but I'm being told that the original L4D campaigns will be included in L4D2, and that Valve will continue to support L4D.

If this pans out as true, then I will have a hard time deciding if Valve is even smarter than we thought by letting people get pissed just to soothe them soon after, or just a bit clueless for not making it known right with the announcement. If this is true than it changes everything.

I think he said in the podcast that community made maps made in L4D will work in both.

I pre-ordered L4D, got it on release day, and probably have over 200 hours in it thus far.

I'm good with this. Here's the thing, L4D was an external game that got picked up by Valve late. L4D2 is a Valve game from the beginning. So, with a lot of the balance issues, and other problems it had, likely won't be happening. Now, I can see this easily getting pushed back to 2010.

I do have to wonder if with L4D, they didn't run into MAJOR blocking problems with the source engine that they needed to upgrade before they could really do it. From how it looks, engine upgrades with the same game don't play too well.

I do have to say, Valve likely knows that this hurts a bit of goodwill. And I've got enough faith in them to think that they'll do something to win everyone back in the end.

evilseed wrote:
Atras wrote:
Podunk wrote:

I don't have a link to back this up yet, but I'm being told that the original L4D campaigns will be included in L4D2, and that Valve will continue to support L4D.

If this pans out as true, then I will have a hard time deciding if Valve is even smarter than we thought by letting people get pissed just to soothe them soon after, or just a bit clueless for not making it known right with the announcement. If this is true than it changes everything.

I think he said in the podcast that community made maps made in L4D will work in both.

How do they work? Since most servers are hosted non-locally, how do you 'spread' a game map?

As much as I love free stuff, L4D2 looks like it will contain changes that will certainly cost a bit of money to produce: voice acting for the new characters, some fundamental engine changes (severing limbs, the director dynamically moving terrain), etc.

I'm not sure how I feel about the daytime setting and the color palette they've chosen. Also, did some of the music strike anyone else as comical? At times I felt like I was watching scenes from High School Movie 4, albeit with zombies. I really hope they sort out the scare-factor a bit better by the time we see it.

The only other thing that jumped out at me is that if you shoot someone wearing a hazmat suit with a tracer round they're still going to burn... they'll just be burning inside the suit. I kinda wish they'd come up with some other excuse for why some of the common infected are fire-proof.

You know, there's also always the "SURPRISE, SUCKERS!" option from Valve.

Seriously, you know it could happen. The entire world would go from being disappointed in Valve, to loving them even more. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of E3 Gabe said: "Wait, about L4D2... It's an update. Someone messed it up. I need to fire him."

The new zombie gore is fantastic. I can't wait to see this in a year

I love L4D, poured 130+ hours into since November but I've always felt it was unfinished in a way - Valve took 4 months to release the survival pack and the SDK is still in beta, I guess they were working on this all along. I will probably pick up L4D2 but apart of me feels disappointed, very un-Valve like to see a game out the door so fast. Guess we'll know the pricing closer to the date.

If you haven't listened to the RPS podcast with Chet Faliszek, it's really good. It addresses a lot of the points that have been raised here and reveals a bunch of details about the game.

Some salient points:

  • Left 4 Dead maps will work with L4D2.
  • Updates for L4D1 will continue to be released despite L4D2 coming out.
  • Left 4 Dead 2 will be bigger content-wise than Left 4 Dead 1 was, "by far."
demonbox wrote:

Does it seem likely that the art design will take a bit of a grittier look before release? It looks a tad cartoony now, which I'm hoping is either because A) Valve is smarter than me or 2) the art will likely continue to progress before November.

I talked with my friend at Valve about L4D2 this afternoon. He didn't really let me know anything we don't already know, but he did say that he only got to play the game for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and that it was an early build and was missing a lot of stuff. So I don't know, it's possible that the look could change a lot in the coming months.

Yeah, I don't know. I love L4D and have played a lot of it but I'm starting to get burned out, I can't muster the will to play more than one Versus game a week. L4D2 looks like it will play almost exactly like L4D and I'm worried I'll get bored with it soon after release.

Call me in...!

Switchbreak wrote:

If you haven't listened to the RPS podcast with Chet Faliszek, it's really good. It addresses a lot of the points that have been raised here and reveals a bunch of details about the game.

Some salient points:

  • Left 4 Dead maps will work with L4D2.
  • Updates for L4D1 will continue to be released despite L4D2 coming out.
  • Left 4 Dead 2 will be bigger content-wise than Left 4 Dead 1 was, "by far."

If these points are true then it's a very big plus for be.

Podunk wrote:
demonbox wrote:

Does it seem likely that the art design will take a bit of a grittier look before release? It looks a tad cartoony now, which I'm hoping is either because A) Valve is smarter than me or 2) the art will likely continue to progress before November.

I talked with my friend at Valve about L4D2 this afternoon. He didn't really let me know anything we don't already know, but he did say that he only got to play the game for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and that it was an early build and was missing a lot of stuff. So I don't know, it's possible that the look could change a lot in the coming months.

Yikes, you have a friend at Valve. I guess I'll have to be nicer next time I see you in L4D then.

It's just odd to me how some peeps reaction is naturally to assume it's all about the monetary. I asked this question a few weeks ago on the podcast (about Starcraft and BioShock 2) but it surpises me that certain studios don't get more of a pass on some decisions. I guess the discussion here about L4D2 is mostly positive, but at this point if Valve doesn't earn at least the space to fail by content, then I don't know who does. I would have to imagine that, despite even the info that's been given by them-- which could just be PR-- chances are if it's a new release then the content will likely be there to justify it. If not, then they lose credibility. But until they do, it feels to me like they earn the space to see whats they gots.

Switchbreak wrote:

If you haven't listened to the RPS podcast with Chet Faliszek, it's really good. It addresses a lot of the points that have been raised here and reveals a bunch of details about the game.

Some salient points:

  • Left 4 Dead maps will work with L4D2.
  • Updates for L4D1 will continue to be released despite L4D2 coming out.
  • Left 4 Dead 2 will be bigger content-wise than Left 4 Dead 1 was, "by far."

I'm sold. But why do we have to find out about this in a podcast as opposed to at the event?
Huge marketing fail.

complexmath wrote:

I'm not sure how I feel about the daytime setting and the color palette they've chosen. Also, did some of the music strike anyone else as comical? At times I felt like I was watching scenes from High School Movie 4, albeit with zombies. I really hope they sort out the scare-factor a bit better by the time we see it.

I think the daytime setting is cool, I'm sure they will create a fair amount of tension regardless of the time of day. As far as comical, the music didn't jump out at me, but a frying pan? Seriously!? Fail.

But overall I have high hopes, I think the director upgrade will be sweet. One of the biggest problems with L4D right now is the redundancy in both versus and campaign. Hopefully the director can make enough of a impact so the levels stay "fresh" longer. I also appreciate the new zombie models, hopefully they add a decent amount more. I realize that the game generates subtle differences in the models as is, but all I see when a zombie is charging me is "cop" or "soldier" etc.

Oh well, I look forward to seeing future videos and screen shots.

I remember talking to my best friend who I play L4D with all the time. He played the beta that you got with pre-ordering the game off Steam. What I've gathered from him is that between the Beta he played and the finale version a lot was changed. Heck from what I've seen on their developer blog I am 99.9% sure that L4D2 will look nothing like it does now when it comes out in November.

P.S. Till a few minutes ago I started to lose the hype and think critically. Is L4D2 another sequel runoff from EA? Nope I am sure this was planned.

Edit: I forgot to mention this. The music some say is comical is mainly just the L4D music we have now but with a new orleans twist on it. If you haven't noticed most of the scenes from 1 of the campaigns is in New Orleans or a city in very close resemblance.

Wolfen Victrocious wrote:

Edit: I forgot to mention this. The music some say is comical is mainly just the L4D music we have now but with a new orleans twist on it. If you haven't noticed most of the scenes from 1 of the campaigns is in New Orleans or a city in very close resemblance.

Yes, it sounds a lot like traditional New Oreleans funeral music. Very cool.

Dysplastic wrote:

I'm sold. But why do we have to find out about this in a podcast as opposed to at the event?
Huge marketing fail.

Yeah, Valve has been really sh*tty about communicating pretty much everything related to their intentions for L4D. I imagine that's where part of the ill will comes from: Gabe Newell is on record saying all sorts of stuff that didn't make it into the full game, and making promises that have since been broken, and Chet Faliszek was out there calling the DLC for shortly after Christmas. It's mind boggling, especially when you look at the masterful way they ran stuff like the last big patch for TF2.

This news suprised the heck out of me. It seems far too soon for a whole new sequal. However I am heartened to see that they are pretty much adressing almost every player complaint EVER. Not to mention adding a lot of ideas that players have come up with. The charger which is probably what you see in the trailer is a fan creation. I argued long and hard for melee combat and despite all the naysayers its going to find a place.

Can't wait!

say what now?!

Awesome

Podunk wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

I'm sold. But why do we have to find out about this in a podcast as opposed to at the event?
Huge marketing fail.

Yeah, Valve has been really sh*tty about communicating pretty much everything related to their intentions for L4D. I imagine that's where part of the ill will comes from: Gabe Newell is on record saying all sorts of stuff that didn't make it into the full game, and making promises that have since been broken, and Chet Faliszek was out there calling the DLC for shortly after Christmas. It's mind boggling, especially when you look at the masterful way they ran stuff like the last big patch for TF2.

I believe Valve is going to have their own presentation at E3, yes? Something I heard on Listen Up gave this impression at least. It was mentioned that they would be a part of the Microsoft presentation but would then later have their own to talk about the game they announced (which we know to be L4D2, and sadly not HL Ep3) in a further presentation at the event. So, maybe they will go more in depth about what exactly this game will be. Maybe.

Six wrote:

Like a 6 person party or something, or even integrate the two groups of survivors from both games for bigger online game play.

Didn't they try larger groups during development and find that once you had more than 4 survivors, everyone felt comfortable subdividing the group and inadvertently ruining the experience?

The only thing that would make this worthwhile is if the level layouts became randomized. Otherwise it really will feel more like a L4D-1.5.

It is strange how opposed to change I am to the L4D concept. I see this new change of time (daytime), these new weapons, new zombies and it only leaves me with a kind of uneasyness. I do have full confidence in Valve making a new great game, but somehow I would have rather have them build these things in the game I already know so well.

The thing I like the most right now is the gauntlet part (from the RPS preview), that really sounds awesome.

It will be interesting to see if this splinters the community, it sounds like Valve is taking steps to prevent this happening by making the game more of a platform. The good news is it will make L4D really cheap which should make the community to continue to grow. Also L4D 2 will probably be cheap on the PC, I got my copy of L4D for $36 on Amazon on release date.

The bad is if you don't own a PC. To me L4D was a proof of concept, I have faith Valve will continue to update it. However, I'm not sure it was worth the $60 people paid for it on the console (especially since M$ and $ony don't appreciate free content). Sure this sequel will have improvements, and more content. But, it will be interesting to see how fast the price of the console version of L4D 2 drops on the Console.

I just hope L4D2's maps are a little less linear leaving more places for playable zeds to spawn. A little more sandbox-ish, rewarding survivors who venture far off the path for supplies but risking delaying forward progression and more zed attacks.

Some of the indoor maps in L4D, specifically the office building with the cubicles, were essentially "free rides" for the survivors. And since it constituted virtually half of that map, it made it hard for a team that's down to catch up.

And speaking in that regard, they need to do something about balancing non-playable special zeds. I've seen too many games with one team getting no tank, or having the witch spawn in some side room while the other team has her spawn directly in the path to progress. That's fine for clan games where people are used to playing together but in games with people who do not play together frequently, the game can easily turn into a blowout rendering the game as fun as a root canal.

Love the melee addition and I'm hoping they add the melee tweak they did in L4D. After all, someone can only swing a sledghammer or chainsaw a few times before their arms become fatigued.

Also little zeds. I want little zeds. Children. In L4D, zeds were like pigeons; you never see the young. Maybe that could be a 5th special playable zed; a child zed that leads a little pack of 8 or so other child zeds that attacks in quick swarms.

There also needs to be optional content that survivors can utilize to give them additional points. For instance, a mini "escort" mission where survivors stumble across an NPC survivor with no weapons who needs an escort to the next safehouse. Or perhaps a child NPC that when "picked up" reduces the speed of one of the survivors as if they were giving the kid a piggyback. The player can still shoot but can no longer melee "risking shaking the child off". Or if they do melee, the kid gets shaken off and bolts for the nearest hiding place making the survivors have to retrieve the little brat again.

I think little bonus objectives like this might help level out the game a bit and make it a little more possible for teams that are down to catch up. Likewise, a team that is winning could get cocky, decide to try a bonus objective to widen the point gap, and have it turn into a clusterf*** making the game even closer than they intended.

Just some ideas. *shrug*