Iraq and Osama

U.S. Appellate Court Judge Gilbert Merritt, one of 13 judiciary experts selected by the Justice Department to help Iraq build a judicial system, wrote in a report recently:

"Through an unusual set of circumstances, I have been given documentary evidence of the names and positions of the 600 people in Iraq closest to Saddam Hussein, as well as his ongoing relationship with Osama bin Laden. ... The list contained not only the names of the 55 'deck of cards' players who have already been revealed, but also 550 others. The document shows that an Iraqi intelligence officer, Abid Al-Karim Muhamed Aswod, assigned to the Iraq embassy in Pakistan, is 'responsible for the coordination of activities with the Osama bin Laden group.' The document shows that it was written over the signature of Uday Saddam Hussein, the son of Saddam Hussein."

Well, if that is accurate, so much for the 'no connection to al-Qaeda' argument.

And you criticize me for posting stuff without citing a source.

Actually, no I haven''t. I criticize you for shamelessly changing the topic to avoid answering a question.

Through an unusual set of circumstances, I have been given documentary evidence of the names and positions of the 600 people in Iraq closest to Saddam Hussein, as well as his ongoing relationship with Osama bin Laden.

It''s not like we haven''t heard the ""proof to be unveiled soon""-thing before.

Why should I believe it at all? No source! It could be from the Onion for all I know.

And the argument still stands that Osama hated Saddam Hussein. He called him ""infidel"" in his last message. If you bothered to read anything about his life, you''d know that he offered his support and the support of his Afghan fighters to protect Saudi Arabia in 1990 after Saddam took Kuwait. The royal family rejected him and called America, which started his ""hatred of America"" bent which culminated in the formation of al-Qaeda.

Judge Merritt obtained the document from a published source, the Babylon Daily Political Newspaper, published by Saddam''s son Uday Hussein. In the November 14, 2002, edition, Uday published a ""List of Honor,"" which included Saddam''s family and trusted administration officials. Halfway down the page is a notation translated: ""Abid Al-Karim Muhamed Aswod, intelligence officer responsible for the coordination of activities with the Osama bin Laden group at the Iraqi embassy in Pakistan."" Within hours of the paper''s distribution, Iraqi intelligence officials confiscated it from every newsstand and known buyer. The CIA is now reviewing the list for its authenticity.

As I said in the original post: if this is accurate...

So where''s the link so that we can look at in a proper context?

Here is the link

Well, if you can dismiss Joe Wilson''s assertions out of hand, I guess it wouldn''t be unfair for me to dismiss this without other sources. So far it''s just on man ""runnin'' his yap"" to one southern newspaper. You''d think he''d at least tell FOX News.

Sure thing Rat. There''s no difference at all between Party A sitting around drinking mint tea and chatting, and Party B having a copy of the newspaper he is basing his story on.

Like I said, way to look past the point.

I''m sorry, you had a point other than posting a conservative pipe-dream in the hopes of silencing legititmate questions about the case for war?

No one dismissed Joseph Wilson out of hand. Wilson didn''t come up with anything on his trip to Niger. That made the Niger report unverified. You took ""no evidence"" as evidence that Bush lied.

Judge Gilbert S. Merritt states that he has the documentation in his hand. You refuse to believe him, because of your dislike for me, Johnny Mojo, and George Bush.

See the difference?

"ralcydan" wrote:

Judge Gilbert S. Merritt states that he has the documentation in his hand. You refuse to believe him, because of your dislike for me, Johnny Mojo, and George Bush.

See the difference?

Forgive the bluntness, but who the f*ck is Judge Gilbert S. Merritt? Why did he only tell one minor news racket in the South? Why isn''t this being plastered all over FOX News right now? It''s just another one of those red-herring, random stories that come out of nowhere and then disappear.

If you two wanted to sound credible, you would have posted something on the Iraqi intelligence officer who was recently captured. He allegedly met with Mohammed Atta in Prague a few years ago. Unfortunately for your case, it is now believed that they weren''t in Prague at the same time at all.

Judge Gilbert Merritt served as chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. This position is one judicial level below the Supreme Court of the United States.

He is now on a committe of 25 judges sent to Iraq to advise and help rebuild the rule of law in Iraq.

As to why it hasn''t been picked up by other news sources, I have no idea. But that doesn''t change the veracity of the claim. It doesn''t change the fact that a former federal judge claims to have, in hand, a copy of the newspaper the list was printed in. Or that the strange conditions surrounding the recall of the newspaper was related to him by several Iraqis.

Can you give me your evidence that he is lying? Like I said, way to miss the point.

Why isn''t he holding a press conference? If this BS is true, then it would be the biggest boon to conservatives. Then again, previous history between the two in question do not support a link. Saddam is a Stalinist who repressed religious expression in his country; Osama is a radical Islamist who fought Communists. During his last message, Osama called on his followers to support the Iraqi people, not the Iraqi president.

And I could comment on how you''ve consistently missed the point that Administration officials used evidence they didn''t trust in a speech before the American people to oversell a causus belli. But, what''s the point if you keep missing it like an American league pitcher in the batter''s box?

previous history between the two in question do not support a link. Saddam is a Stalinist who repressed religious expression in his country; Osama is a radical Islamist who fought Communists

You can logic your way to anything. By that reasoning, I can dispute that FDR, a freedom-loving Christian American who despised tyranny would never have collaborated with Joseph Stalin, a Stalinist tyrant who destroyed freedom and religious expression in his country.

Common enemies often make strange bedfellows...

I''m sorry, I missed the part where the Nazis supplied weapons to the US and the Soviets for them to further Hitler''s foreign policy back in the 20s and 30s.

Enemies don''t become friends overnight, especially when there is so much ideological differrence. They may not mind that the other is messing with the US, but they wouldn''t touch each other to claw each other''s eyes out. Why do you assume that everyone who hates America must naturally be allies?

I''m sorry. I also didn''t make comparisons about styles of dress or hair. Your point seems to be, ""these people shouldn''t like each other, therefore they have never worked together."" Sorry, but that doesn''t follow.

I don''t ""assume that everyone who hates America must naturally be Allies."" I look at the evidence: training camps for Al Queda in Iraq, Al Queda operatives living and receiving medical attention in Iraq, Reports of Iraqi officials who are liasons with Al Queda.

Why do you ignore evidence you don''t like? Why do you assume that anyone with an ideological difference must be so hate-ridden they could never find common cause (personal experience, maybe?)

"ralcydan" wrote:

I''m sorry. I also didn''t make comparisons about styles of dress or hair. Your point seems to be, ""these people shouldn''t like each other, therefore they have never worked together."" Sorry, but that doesn''t follow.

My point is that the don''t like each other, never have.

I don''t ""assume that everyone who hates America must naturally be Allies."" I look at the evidence: training camps for Al Queda in Iraq,

The site you''re refering to was not al-Qaeda and it was in the Kurdish-controlled north. It may be more factually accurate to accuse the Kurds of harboring al-Qaeda. But you wouldn''t want to accuse an ally of harboring an enemy, now, would you?

Al Queda operatives living and receiving medical attention in Iraq,

And then assassinated. No evidence the hospitality he received was at the behest of the Iraqi government, but his death was most likely government-related.

Reports of Iraqi officials who are liasons with Al Queda.

You mean this guy? Even the US dismisses the allegations.

Why do you ignore evidence you don''t like?

I''m not. You''re spinning the evidence into your light despite the facts.

Why do you assume that anyone with an ideological difference must be so hate-ridden they could never find common cause (personal experience, maybe?)

The NAACP and the KKK have both been targeted by the government at one time or another. What are the odds that those two will ever join forces?

Rat, I like how your argument against the claim is that it hasn''t been picked up by other news sources yet.

Since you think Bush is an idiot, who could possibly be behind a conspiracy so vast? I mean, they have forged documents, lied in a policy speech, killed a witness, forged an Iraqi newspaper and planted a story in a Tennesee paper, and obviously crushed the spirit of the Iraqi people who secretly long for Saddam''s return...

If it were a conspiracy, it wouldn''t be this bloody obvious.

I''ve state my belief that the war (which isn''t about oil) was forced down the throats of the American people by the ultra-hawks who convinced Bush to follow this course of action over the objections of his own Secretary of State. They have wanted this war for the last dozen years and didn''t give a crap who got in their way, and they''d be willing to make any half-assed connection and allegation to further prove their story. Why these people wanted Iraq so badly is anybody''s guess; that they wanted Iraq is a fact.

Edit:

Rat, I like how your argument against the claim is that it hasn''t been picked up by other news sources yet.

Wouldn''t it stand to reason that FOX News, the conservative broadcast network, would be jumping all over this? It pains me to say that even FOX might have journalistic integrity...

The Internet is a funny thing. Any hack could pose something as fact. Without corroboration from other sources, you can''t treat it as the truth.

The Internet is a funny thing. Any hack could pose something as fact. Without corroboration from other sources, you can''t treat it as the truth.

Sure. Are you suggesting that the Tennesseean has been hacked? Or that Judge Merritt was lying?

Or they (or he) could have been fed a bogus story. It happens, especially during war.

The Internet is a funny thing. Any hack could pose something as fact. Without corroboration from other sources, you can''t treat it as the truth.

Ah, irony.

You''se two should get a room. The passion is seriously turning me on.

Now lawyeron, you''re just jealous. You long for the days when you would be the one posting pages of well-crafted arguments to Rat Boy which he would completely ignore in his retorts... Admit it, you''re just feeling a bit neglected.

Nice set-up there, daisies, but as a pretty neutral observer I must say that most discussions here end up being point-cointerpoint so don''t give any sh*t about ignoring retorts

I love you all.

Nice set-up there, daisies

Is ""daisies"" an insult in the Netherlands? Somewhat ironic if so. Just curious and trying to expand my worldview...

Now lawyeron, you''re just jealous.

You''re right! Ratboy used to be all mine and now I have to share.

I hate to share, I guess that''s why I''m a Republican.