Persona 4 why do you hate me?

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It's been a while since I posted a "why do hate me?" rant, in which I complain about something that frustrates me about a good game. Alas, nothing lasts forever, and frustrations inevitably occur. Here we go.

OK Persona 4, I get it, you're incredibly stylish, you're one of the best JRPGs to show up in recent years. I should love you. I do love you, I want to love you. But after 7 hours you punched me in the face with a boss I can't defeat. This is the first true boss (after you have a three person party). Let that sink in, I had to go through 7 hours of gameplay before the game told me 'you're doing it wrong.'

The 'you're doing it wrong' moment is something that I've come to accept from my RPGs. There is almost always a distinct moment at which I am informed that I have done something noobish and stupid while leveling that has handicapped my character to the point of frequent and inevitable 'game over' screens. My problem with Persona 4, is that it took so long to get to this point, that the possibility having to return to the beginning makes me kind of want to vomit.

My second problem is that I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm not sure if I need to spend more time in the dungeons, or fuse more Persona's, or build more social links? I simply don't know, and I don't want to sink another 4-5 hours into finding out.

Finally in a tangentially related topic. In a game that focuses on 'spells' so heavily, it seems like the skill points are unnecessarily limited. I think the amount that your characters get to use are fine, but (up till this point) there are very few items that replenish those points. I can't seem to buy any in the stores, and I'm not finding enough to effectively maintain my crew in battle.

You need to do some grinding in the early part of Persona 4 to get through the game. Run up and down the dungeon a couple of times and you'll be good to go. Also make sure you are always fusing personas when you leave the dungeon... you'll get more powerful ones and have spots available to fill up when you head back in.

I still have a long ways to go in the game and kinda took a break from it but plan on heading back. The spell point issue eases up not long after the boss fight you are on I believe. It is really tough to start but if you can make it over this hurdle the game does get a bit easier. More things will click for you, you'll have more time to grind before having to face a boss and you'll get access to things that make the spell points less of a concern.

Stick with it if you can. Grind the dungeon a bit to level up, get some new personas and you should be fine. Bosses are tough because they really are battles of attrition. Normal combat is all about knocking down enemies and getting combos going. Boss fights are about finding the right skills to use and holding out longer than the boss can.

I had a similar problem with that boss. As I recall, my solution was to generate a persona that nulled fire to keep my main char alive, cast defense and attack down on the boss, and just wail on it with physical attacks. It took me a couple tries, and I feel I got pretty lucky at the end, so I definitely feel your pain. I don't remember what level I was, but I generally didn't run from encounters on the way up the tower, and I still felt I could have used one or two additional levels.

Also, you can buy drinks from the vending machines in town; these drinks replenish your "magic" points, but you can only buy a limited number and they only restock every week or so.

Unless you're playing on Easy, don't expect to finish the dungeon in one shot, especially early on before you are better able to replenish SP. Use the save point to warp out, fuse some personae, sell materials to get better weapons/armor, and take the long way back up to the top to grind levels.

If the idea of grinding back up is abhorrent, restart now while your investment is small. I am playing on Easy and there is still enough challenge to be engaging, but the experience is relaxing rather than tense. (This may or may not be a good thing, depending what you're looking for.)

As everyone else is saying, the difficulty curve is weird; it definitely gets easier. Once you get your first persona with "Spirit Drain" the whole game changes.

Remember that guarding stops the knockdown effect on a character weak to a certain magic type, so if it looks like you'll get hit by an elemental spell next turn guard with the people who have that elemental weakness. The real damage always comes when the boss gets a second turn.

Otherwise welcome to Persona, where grinding isn't just suggested, it's required. The only other thing I can suggest in general is remember that unlike Final Fantasy games stat effects really do matter in the SMT games, so raising your evasion/hit/attack and lowering your enemy's evasion/hit/attack are absurdly worthwhile.

bnpederson wrote:

Otherwise welcome to Persona, where grinding isn't just suggested, it's required. The only other thing I can suggest in general is remember that unlike Final Fantasy games stat effects really do matter in the SMT games, so raising your evasion/hit/attack and lowering your enemy's evasion/hit/attack are absurdly worthwhile.

Oh yeah seriously... even on Easy, the combat is so much more tactical than the "everybody attack with your weapon every round until it dies" that I'm used to on RPGs. Between that, and the scarcity of SP versus HP, you really have to forget a lot of the genre conventions for this game.

As for grinding, it's probably obvious: I'm a big advocate for playing on Easy. I like RPGs but I don't like a lot of grinding (which is bizarre I know) so this hits the sweet spot for me.

I loved Persona 1 and 2, and can't get much more than 5 hours into 3 and 4. Sucks. :\

Ok update time.

After some serious grinding I did manage to beat that boss. I think I'll be able to make it through the game on normal now that I've got a sense for the amount of grinding I'll need to do and how to fit it into the games schedule.

I do have to say I still have qualms with the games difficulty curve. As some of you have pointed out, it's more of a difficulty gentle slope which terminates in a difficulty brick wall, followed by more gentle sloping. For example after I beat that boss (but before the next person has gone missing) I went back to that dungeon to get my grind on. I made it through the entire dungeon in one go, using no items of any sort (and getting a paltry amount of experience for my trouble). Then I get to the replacement boss only to find that he has a single move that can KO all of my party members regardless of their current health.

I dig the game, and I really like the blend of the social aspect and the dungeon crawl but I really wish they had found a way to work the skills you develop fighting normal monsters (fun) into the boss battles (not fun).

Yeah, the boss battles in Persona 3 and 4 never really wowed me. Even the final bosses were visually pretty but not much more.

As far as those extra bosses you noticed, I found on Normal difficulty they were easy as hell once you've beaten the dungeon after the one they're in.

Basically my pattern was thus:

1) Run up to the top floor of a dungeon. (Save)
2)Go to previous dungeon, then back to current dungeon. (re-randomizes levels and gives more chests) (Save)
3) Start at the top of the dungeon and run down. (Save)
4) Go into previous dungeon, run all the way up and kill optional boss. (Save)
5) Try the current dungeon's boss to determine if more grinding is needed. If so repeat steps 2 and 3 until ready.

The extra dungeons are mainly there for money I think. Money's rather difficult to come by considering the price of weapons, but if you go into a dungeon one or two months back from your current the enemies can't even hurt you and you can just rush through them all. Also you should come across an SP refill at some point and that makes the game absurdly easy after a bit. Really, SP is the only limiting factor in Persona 4.

AmazingZoidberg wrote:

Ok update time.

After some serious grinding I did manage to beat that boss. I think I'll be able to make it through the game on normal now that I've got a sense for the amount of grinding I'll need to do and how to fit it into the games schedule.

I do have to say I still have qualms with the games difficulty curve. As some of you have pointed out, it's more of a difficulty gentle slope which terminates in a difficulty brick wall, followed by more gentle sloping. For example after I beat that boss (but before the next person has gone missing) I went back to that dungeon to get my grind on. I made it through the entire dungeon in one go, using no items of any sort (and getting a paltry amount of experience for my trouble). Then I get to the replacement boss only to find that he has a single move that can KO all of my party members regardless of their current health.

The normal and extra boss in Yukiko's dungeon are probably the 2 hardest in the game, for their particular levels. It's not so bad after that.

I found the extra boss to be a real pain, and basically a matter of luck. A couple of times I had him down to a sliver of health, only to see him Rampage my entire party to death. I found the best strategy is to use skills that increase dodge and reduce enemy's hit percentage, forego all-out attacks and hope for a couple of lucky crits to keep him dizzied. It'll take a few tries but eventually you'll get it.

I guess I've done this too many times. My "you're doing it wrong" moment didn't show up until December, with a correspondingly longer time investment into it.

It's okay, though. I have to finish something else and then I'll do it again with the save plus data to help.

momgamer wrote:

I guess I've done this too many times. My "you're doing it wrong" moment didn't show up until December, with a correspondingly longer time investment into it.

It's okay, though. I have to finish something else and then I'll do it again with the save plus data to help.

OH GOD! I just finished the game, and I now know exactly what you mean.

spoilers wrote:

[color=white]OK so, what is needed for a "good ending" because I got two endings, one was bad, and one left me feeling like I had some unfinished business to attend to.[/color]

AmazingZoidberg wrote:

OH GOD! I just finished the game, and I now know exactly what you mean.

spoilers wrote:

[color=white]OK so, what is needed for a "good ending" because I got two endings, one was bad, and one left me feeling like I had some unfinished business to attend to.[/color]

spoilers wrote:

[color=white]First there is a critical conversation on December 3. If you push things just the right way, the game continues to the "Good" ending. It is very easy to settle which quickly ushers you to the "Bad" ending. Sounds like you made it past that.

After defeating what seems to be the final boss on the "Good" ending route, you skip ahead to March 30 for an epilogue of sorts. If you want to open the final dungeon and the "True" ending...

...do not go back home. After talking to all your friends, go to the Junes food court. The game will try to dissuade you; persist. You can figure the rest out from there.

That's three possible endings total. I think unlocking the "True" ending was a little unfair; I sure wouldn't have known it even existed without a walkthrough. What's nice, though, is that the ending doesn't hinge on a decision made far earlier. You can reload a very recent save to head for the better ending.[/color]

I've started playing it but there are just too many annoying things distracting me. Chie's voice is annoying, the emo glasses are ridiculous (particularly compared to a gun to the head), and Teddie needs to DIE. Between those three things, there's almost never a point where there isn't something bugging me. It's a real shame since the gameplay is good.

EDIT: Beep, I haven't been reading any spoilers but I thought your post was not only spoiler-free but extremely helpful even before your edit. Now I know not to just BS through that event.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Beep, I haven't been reading any spoilers but I thought your post was not only spoiler-free but extremely helpful even before your edit. Now I know not to just BS through that event.

Thanks! I guess it's not much of an RPG spoiler to say, at least, that the game contains optional material that you have to do something special to unlock; and that it is almost impossible to generate a save file that locks you out of this optional material, so if you want to get the most out of the game and aren't keeping a single save file which you overwrite at every opportunity, check my previous post or use a walkthrough.

I almost always play RPGs with walkthroughs for this reason, usually just briefly skimming them on occasion. I don't like having my hand held but I also don't like the RPG convention of hiding great material and requiring obscure actions to open it. (Like seriously, how many people found Yuffie in FF7 without a guide? Or (obscure reference) completed the awesome Choko sidequest in Arc the Lad 2 without one?)

On that note, the official Persona 4 strategy guide was really fantastic about avoiding spoilers.

Or who got that stupid spear in FF12 without a walkthrough? The one that only appears if you open certain chests and leave others closed?

Not I. But I did get all the ultimate weapons in FFX, and I got them all fully charged, too. By that time, my Yuna did 45,000+ damage with just a plain physical attack using Nirvana. It sounds like you smacked 'em with a tennis racket, which is the antithesis of burly and makes me giggle every time.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Or who got that stupid spear in FF12 without a walkthrough? The one that only appears if you open certain chests and leave others closed?

Oh yeah, the Zodiac Spear, how could I forget? Most blatant attempt to sell strategy guides ever. There is no clue anywhere in the game that near the beginning of the game, you should arbitrarily ignore certain chests, so that later in the game another chest holds the game's best weapon.

The Final Fantasy series is usually pretty egregious about this. I remember in Final Fantasy VI, the best materia in the game was a rare drop from a rare monster found in a very small part of the world map you had no other reason to enter.

If somebody wants to make fun of RPG cliches, this legitimate gripe gets my goat way more than starting the game oversleeping.

Or who got that stupid spear in FF12 without a walkthrough? The one that only appears if you open certain chests and leave others closed?

Yeah, I'm playing this as my pile o' shame game this month - I'm deliberately ignoring the spear thing out of spite and steering well clear of any strategy guide. If I miss some items and sidequests because of it...so be it, at least I'll (hopefully) get the thing finished this time without worrying about searching every last little corner and talking to every last NPC, which is what killed it for me the first time I tried it.

..unless it turns out it gets too difficult if you DONT do that, in which case it and I are going to have a falling out.

Persona 4 is actually only just out next week over here, looking forward to giving it a shot, based on what I've seen on the Giant Bomb Endurance so far at least. At least it will hopefully look a little better on my TV than FFXII does - that game does NOT look good on a big screen.

stevenmack wrote:

..unless it turns out it gets too difficult if you DONT do that, in which case it and I are going to have a falling out.

No worries, all the difficult stuff is in the extra/side missions. The hardest bosses are the end game hunts or some of the summons, but not the story bosses.

momgamer wrote:

Not I. But I did get all the ultimate weapons in FFX, and I got them all fully charged, too. By that time, my Yuna did 45,000+ damage with just a plain physical attack using Nirvana. It sounds like you smacked 'em with a tennis racket, which is the antithesis of burly and makes me giggle every time.

The Tennis Racket is not the antithesis of burly in FFX.

IMAGE(http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/10-lulu-a.jpg)

This is. Oh Lulu, you can't fight with a doll!

O_O Does she need more belts, there? She seems to have left a gap.

Oh Lulu, you can't fight with a doll!

Yeah she can! I have seen her do it!

Hypatian wrote:

O_O Does she need more belts, there? She seems to have left a gap.

Yeah, she can't see that spot without a mirror. Something's uh... obscuring her vision.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Yeah, she can't see that spot without a mirror. Something's uh... obscuring her vision.

Is it the doll?

You know, if you've ever played Blood 2, you'd know you can fight with a doll.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Yeah, she can't see that spot without a mirror. Something's uh... obscuring her vision.

Is it the doll?

The doll isn't what she sees when she looks down.

Lard wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Yeah, she can't see that spot without a mirror. Something's uh... obscuring her vision.

Is it the doll?

The doll isn't what she sees when she looks down.

Don't even get me started.....

Besides, her ultimate weapon is a cute little stuffed Onion Knight. And he is AWESOME!

stevenmack wrote:

Yeah, I'm playing this as my pile o' shame game this month - I'm deliberately ignoring the spear thing out of spite...

Persona 4 is actually only just out next week over here, looking forward to giving it a shot, based on what I've seen on the Giant Bomb Endurance so far at least. At least it will hopefully look a little better on my TV than FFXII does - that game does NOT look good on a big screen.

Don't worry about the Zodiac Spear in FFXII; you can get along quite nicely without it. Too late anyways, if you're past, like, the first several hours.

I played both FFXII and Persona 4 on a 42" HDTV and I'm sorry, but I recall FFXII looking better. (Although perhaps Persona 4's simpler art style will work better on your set.) Are you using component cables and 16:9?

Hey, question, guys. In Persona 4, when I'm in a dungeon I see a kind of after-image of all the HUD stuff, radiating outward from the center. It's subtle, just like a... shadow?... but it's a little distracting. Is it supposed to be like that? Can I turn it off?

I haven't seen any of that Lobster. Do you see it in any other game you play?

momgamer wrote:

I haven't seen any of that Lobster. Do you see it in any other game you play?

Nope.

But it's in the screenshots so I'm guessing it's intended.

IMAGE(http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/persona4/ss-001.jpg)

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