An Elevated Console Discussion

So, this is it guys. The ultimate test. Can our well cultured and practiced forum members discuss Nintendo woes without starting a flame war? Can we talk about the console wars without waging a mild skirmish ourselves?

As you may have noticed on the front page, if I thought for a second you'd been there, the topic of Gamecube's perceived weakness has finally forced us both Certis and I to throw our unsolicited voice into the din. So, I pose the question to you guys. Is Nintendo's Gamecube in trouble? What has Nintendo done wrong, or right? What can be done to fix it? Why is the Big N seen to be in 3rd place? Or is it all just beating a dead horse which we should be ashamed of prodding with a stick yet again?

I''m really bored at work, so I''ll go first.

Don''t have the cube, so all I can give you is my impression of the consoles I do have and my impression of what the cube is missing:

On-line play! Even though the x-box is still in its infancy stage, I have high hopes. I think the other consoles will get around to it, also have their infancy stage, and move on. In the meantime, the X will keep getting better.

Mature titles. I always thought ''tendo was leaning a little heavy on cutsie...not that its all bad, but I''m a few years gone from that.

Other than that, I think graphics, number of titles, and so on, are basicly the same. Sure there''s a few more things here, and over there is something a tad nicer, but all things being equal I like playing on-line and having a wide selection from goofy to mature games to play.

I''m still a PC first kinda guy, but I see the consoles rapidly approaching the point where PC gaming may become secondary.

I think the problem with the GC is that Nintendo is too succesfull of a developer. Nintendo games out sell every other publisher (on average per title). So most people think of the GC as a system that just plays Nintendo games.

Nintendo also didn''t do a very good job of making the GC seem hip to the 20+ market. Nintendo should be running ads that talk about Metroid being the Game of the Year that could get people to pick up the system+metroid bundle.

I bought my cube just for the exclusives. I have always thought the GC is a good second system. Nintendo has not done enough to make the GC a primary system. If the big N is not careful I do believe customers may lose faith eventually and drop them on the next hardware release.

Nintendo makes some of the funnest and most innovative games on the planet in their history. Somebody at corporate with a clue needs to wake up and fix things.

Nintendo''s problem is that they are to well known for their own good. ""Nintendo"" has been branded into consumers minds since the early 80''s when the majority of the population thought that games were just for kids. Think about it, when someone who doesn''t know much about videogames sees you playing, what do they say? I know that my grandparents refer to all videogames as Nintendo games.

The name Nintendo is associated with kids games. In order to prosper, Nintendo needs to undertake a serious re-branding campaign. Recently they have made an attempt, but in reality, their attempt was a pathetic shot to get the late teenage gamer through grotesque and disturbing images. I believe they should try something like Microsoft has done. They should try to associate their console with beer, parties, and the 21-35 year old crowd.

Bought the GC for the purpose of multiplayer parties and didn''t regret it so far. Titles Soccer Slam, Beach Spikers, Monkey Ball 1&2, Mario Party 4 are easily accessible and definitely beat the quality of party games offered on other systems. Also enjoyed Eternal Darkness and Pikmin a lot as well as Rogue Leader (not brilliant, but definitely a nice ''take a break''-game).

However, - as you know it''s not the first time I''m saying this - Nintendo''s PAL policy is HIDEOUS. Releasing a game like Metroid Prime no less than 5 months after US launch (Hell, even Japan got MP before Europe, and we all know about the popularity of FP games in that market.) is kinda outdated these days. Sony made sure that a key title like GTA: Vice City came out in Europe only a few days after the US release, just in time for the Christmas business. Same with Microsoft (Mech Assault, plus Splinter Cell in cooperation with Ubi). And Nintendo came up with what? SFA, which didn''t too well in the US market in the first place. The rather disappointing Christmas season of the GC in Europe came as surprising as the sunset comes every day. Does Big N still think that PAL gamers don''t know what''s going on outside Europe?

As for the 3rd-party business. I can say that I didn''t buy the GC with certain 3rd-party games in mind aside of aforementioned multiplayer titles. None of the games I was looking forward to has been canned so far. I prefer my PC when it comes to RPGs or FPS games.

I have always thought the GC is a good second system.

Exactly my thoughts. Being a PC gamer the GC looks to me like a better secondary system than PS2 or Xbox. (When it comes to a ""You''re not going to get those titles to play on PC""-point of view)

I bought my cube just for the exclusives.

Same here. And even then I really had to think if I wanted to spend the money.

IMHO, Nintendo just dosen''t offer enough new content. I love a handful of their franchises, and will probably always buy a Nintendo console just for them, but why can''t they spread their wings a little and give us a bit more. Aside from the proven money makers, how about creating some new mascots?

Sorta off the topic, but everytime Nintendo gets discussed, someone brings up Xbox Live and the ''online advantage''.

Maybe I''m just cranky today, but it really seems to me that Nintendo is suffering in part because of a focus on gameplay as opposed to online hype.

Wow, that''s probably the most trollish post I''ll ever make. I love my xbox. Don''t get me wrong- I''m just sick to death of the online hype machine. Undoubtedly I''m not the target demographic, and am hopelessly in the minority...too many years playing quake will do that to you, I guess.

/set grumpy to ''1''.

I can only speak for myself, but here are my theories about why the GC is dying, in order of importance:

* No RPGs. When Square left Nintendo, that was one of the first nails into the console coffin. They still refuse to acknowledge RPGs as a viable game genre.

* Bad bad marketing. They ignore markets outside the US and Japan. In Mexico, Sony has been taking the PS2 seriously at least, and MS even more. The only people who bought a GC are parents or grownup guys who still remember the old 8-bit Nintendo.

That''s changing tho. The new generation of gamers only knows Playstation. Did you ever live through that phase where every parent would say ""Oh, he loves playing Nintendo"", and it meant any kind of videogame? Well, they now say ""Playstation"".

* Slow calendar for new games.

* The N64. No explanation needed, I think.

* They did not grow with their fanbase. I honestly expected Link to grow up with me. I''m not talking about ""Hey, lets have Link become the anti-hero, rape Princess Zelda and use drugs"", I wanted him like they showed at SpaceWorld. Cool fighting moves, against nasty monsters, good ol'' sense of grand adventures. If they''d kept their old franchises updated, then created a few new ones (like Pikmin and Pokemon) they''d have a system that caters to everyone.

* I guess that''s it. I see they mention it''s lacking online play, but I''ve never hooked a console to the net, so I''ve no idea.

The name Nintendo is associated with kids games. In order to prosper, Nintendo needs to undertake a serious re-branding campaign. Recently they have made an attempt, but in reality, their attempt was a pathetic shot to get the late teenage gamer through grotesque and disturbing images. I believe they should try something like Microsoft has done. They should try to associate their console with beer, parties, and the 21-35 year old crowd.

grotesque and disturbing images? Are you talking about Eternal Darkness?

Mex: The GC has four high profile RPG coming out on the GC this year. Square has RPGs in development for the system. The GC is the 2nd best RPG system.

I just don''t know exactly what it is about the ''cube that''s just left me cold. I don''t have a cube but one of the guys I work with has one and I''ve played most of the releases for it as he buys everything. The titles just haven''t grabbed me the way they did in the old days and especially the N64 days. I remember going ""Wow!"" playing Super Mario 64 and Zelda on the N64 Mario Sunshine whilst being a great game and pretty good graphically just couldn''t hold my attention the way the old Mario could. The new Zelda game just doesn''t grab me either. What guts me the most is I just can''t tell why it leaves me cold it just does, mind you I must admit that console titles just don''t do it for me the way PC titles do these days.

The problem Nintendo is facing in Europe is that only a few titles are available. When you go to a store you have three racks of ps2 games. two racks of xbox games and one rack part ps1 part GC games. And since the games sell a system it is a no brainer the GC is lacking here.
Another reason is release dates. Metroid Prime won''t be available here until late March to early April. Eternal Darkness took several months to be released in the EU. I am currently thinking about getting a cube for ED + MP alone, but the low amount of titles really keeps me away from the system so far. Also while the GC has really great exclusive titles and especially first party titles, they are way to few to move people to buy the system. I was not yet able to figure out Nintendo''s masterplan behind this, but currently it is not getting them anywhere.
I don''t know where the ''Nintendo is for kids'' idea came from, there are kids games for each of the three systems available. I wish they had bigger versions of their controller though and maybe another color than purple would be nice as well.

grotesque and disturbing images? Are you talking about Eternal Darkness?

Well, it wasn''t particularly disturbing, but it sure was stupid.

I remember walking through my local mall and seeing a picture of a metal cube with something like ""Get in the Cube"" written above it. How does a picture of a metal cube prove you are not a toy or kids machine?

While we are talking about Nintendo maybe someone can tell me why the hell Nintendo doesn''t package demo disks with Nintendo Power...

Every other console has a monthly demo disk, Nintendo should too.

now that you mention it, is the mag released worldwide btw? I don''t recall seeing an official GC mag at the store over here.

"scoli" wrote:
grotesque and disturbing images? Are you talking about Eternal Darkness?

Well, it wasn''t particularly disturbing, but it sure was stupid.

I remember walking through my local mall and seeing a picture of a metal cube with something like ""Get in the Cube"" written above it. How does a picture of a metal cube prove you are not a toy or kids machine?

So... sorta the inverse of thinking outside the box?

I have an Xbox, I play it every once in a while but basically I''m a PC gamer, all the console games feel the same to me and have stupid one way track save point mentalities. So I''ll just through down the gauntlet and say the all suck and we need a better model over all.
That being said I think the cube is on the way out, but Nintendo has so much market clout that they will take a dying elephant approach and milk for all it''s worth on the way down. At some point they will announce a new system but it will also be targeted at kids and they will slam dunk a solid #3 until something changes in the industry overall.

The thing is, they don''t have to abandon the family friendly approach at all. Why can''t they just create more adult friendly games to go along with it? Imagine how much fun a RE type game could be with Miyamoto at the helm.

Mex: The GC has four high profile RPG coming out on the GC this year. Square has RPGs in development for the system. The GC is the 2nd best RPG system.

Really? What are they? I know they have Skies, which is good but eh, I already played it. I did hear about Square and Nintendo back together, but I thought it was just for the Gameboy.

I wonder, however, if it''s not too late.

And saying it''s the 2nd best RPG system ain''t much, and you know it I don''t think the Xbox has a single RPG?

Packaging a demo disc with Nintendo Power would be a huge help.

Can we start a non-sophisticated Nintendo thread where I can call Nintendo derogative names?

I don''t think the Xbox has a single RPG?

Depends on what you like, Western or Japanese RPG''s. Baldur''s Gate: Dark Alliance and Morrowind are both pretty good.

Packaging a demo disc with Nintendo Power would be a huge help.

I agree, they have to get the games in people''s hands. The proof is in the pudding.

I think they are trying at least. This promotion they are doing now with a free game is pretty nice. I still think they should offer 2 controllers and a free game included in the box like the original NES. But I''m a nostalgic mofo.

I love my Cube, but there is some definite arrogance going on with the ""higher up''s"" over at Nintendo.

Can we start a non-sophisticated Nintendo thread where I can call Nintendo derogative names?

Different. We''re shooting for different. I can think of a half dozen sites where that''s the order of the day.

You can, however, call Certis derogatory names. I''ll protect you!

Really? What are they? I know they have Skies, which is good but eh, I already played it. I did hear about Square and Nintendo back together, but I thought it was just for the Gameboy.

Square has a Final Fantasy game in development for the Gamecube (it''s really more like the Mana saga), Namco has two exclusive RPG due out this year. One of them is planned to become one of Namco''s core titles. Not to mention that Camelot (Golden Sun, Shinning Force) has a GC RPG in development.

The GC doesn''t have enough RPG but it''s better than the N64. Also, Lufia is in development for the GC.

As soon as I asked for a new thread I thought of our favorite sites.

I can''t rag on Certis yet. He usually doesn''t say too much that bothers me.