When is the U.S. finally going to legalize pot?

I'm so tired of my tax dollars going to house criminals convicted of consensual crime.

Frankly I think most consensual crime needs to be de-criminalized. Save the prisons for violent criminals, thieves, and sex predators. Leave the potheads alone.

The fact that alcohol is legal completely undermines any argument as to the "harm" that pot causes. Alcohol is, by far, the most destructive drug I've encountered.

I guess we'll have to wait until the day when tobacco and alcohol lobbyists no longer have a stranglehold on D.C. (so...like...never?). So much money and misinformation is doled out every year by lobbyists who want their vice to be the only one you can indulge in.

I'm 34 and I wonder if I'll see the day when this foolish waste of time, money, and lives is corrected.

Do you guys and gals think we'll see a national decriminalization of pot in the next, say, 40 years?

~Taos

When the culture war and it's warriors are not controlling the discourse anymore, we can begin to have a sensible discussion about it. As long as the veterans of the cultural war of the 60s are still controlling the debate, no chance in hell.

Do you guys and gals think we'll see a national decriminalization of pot in the next, say, 40 years?

It's all a matter of how long the over-40 crowd in this country sticks around (and votes, of course). If life expectancy increases to 90-100 I don't think we'll see it in the next 40 years.

Hey I got a suggestion.. who gives a crap. If Pot was legal would it fix anything? No, so who gives a freaking damn. The problem I see with legalizing pot is people can get a contact high from people smoking around them, till this issue is fixed I don't want some dumbass pot head around me.

In Massachusetts we had a 2008 ballot initiative.

The Sensible Marijuana Policy Initiative, also known as Massachusetts Ballot Question 2, was an initiated state statute that replaces current criminal penalties with civil penalties on adults possessing an ounce or less of marijuana.

It passed by a 30% margin.

Interesting points. I wasn't familiar with the term "Culture War" but it is fitting.

The thing is, I know more old people who smoke pot than young people. I think the percentage of pot smokers in this country has been relatively static for quite some time.

It can't be as simple as "old people don't understand pot smoking like the crackhead youth of today". Old people smoke pot too. Old people smoked pot in the 60's. Old people smoked pot in the 30's. And right now as we speak some senior citizen is getting totally baked while they watch Judge Joe Brown reruns.

I don't buy the generational thing. I personally think it has something to do with how society teaches people at an early age that they should be ashamed of smoking pot because it is bad and evil and kills kittens whereas drinking is like OMGKEWL! I think this misplaced sense of moral guilt coupled with the iron-fisted attitude of the police/govm't prevent pot smokers from organizing and seriously pushing for the decriminalization of their vice.

~Taos

Um, pot is already "de-criminalized" in about 38 states. That doesn't mean legal, but a $100 fine for quantities under 1 kilo is pretty "de-criminlized". Will it ever be "legal" legal... I don't think anytime soon. Once it goes legal, it will be like alcohol, you can never go back.

Imagine, legalized marijuana but still no tits on primetime TV... I think people forget what Country they actually live in. *hint* most of those voters aren't here...

Pharacon wrote:

Hey I got a suggestion.. who gives a crap. If Pot was legal would it fix anything? No, so who gives a freaking damn. The problem I see with legalizing pot is people can get a contact high from people smoking around them, till this issue is fixed I don't want some dumbass pot head around me.

A) I give a crap.

B) If pot was legal it would save millions (billions?) of dollars that we currently spend to combat it and incarcerate people for smoking/distributing it.

C) Any legalization of pot smoking would have to include regulation for where/when it is acceptable. This is already happening around the country with cigarette smoke.

D) Who's the dumbass? SOmeone who smokes pot or someone who wastes tax dollars to lock up someone for smoking pot?

TheArtOfScience wrote:

D) Who's the dumbass? SOmeone who smokes pot or someone who wastes tax dollars to lock up someone for smoking pot?

Why can't it be both? And I say that as a former pot smoker.

bighoppa wrote:
TheArtOfScience wrote:

D) Who's the dumbass? SOmeone who smokes pot or someone who wastes tax dollars to lock up someone for smoking pot?

Why can't it be both? And I say that as a former pot smoker.

Touche'

Well, yeah, it can be both.

But let's face it...we all do things that can be considered stupid. Drinking is stupid, smoking anything period is stupid, playing games is stupid, watching crap sitcoms on tv is stupid, not using your blinker when you make a turn is stupid, etc. etc.

The difference being that one stupid thing is a hobby and another stupid thing will get you locked up.

I'm not saying that smoking pot is a good idea and everyone should try it. If I want to do something stupid to my body I should have that right, though. Be it a tattoo, a piercing, a diet of hotpockets and poptarts, or a buttplug made out of rotted driftwood. As long as I am only subjecting myself to the consequences of my stupidity then I should not be punished for it by the state.

bighoppa wrote:

Why can't it be both? And I say that as a former pot smoker.

Because we don't lock people up for drinking unless they drive, and because illegal pot costs states money in both enforcement and lost excise taxes (meanwhile, criminals make all the profit). We already tried prohibiting alcohol and it was terrible policy. For some reason we're intent on following the same approach with pot. There may be various religious and irrational reasons for criminalizing pot smoking, but it's not smart policy. And I'm saying that as someone who was never into smoking pot and was friends with a lot of stoners back in college (after college they all got jobs and stopped being stoners).

Pharacon wrote:

Hey I got a suggestion.. who gives a crap. If Pot was legal would it fix anything? No, so who gives a freaking damn. The problem I see with legalizing pot is people can get a contact high from people smoking around them, till this issue is fixed I don't want some dumbass pot head around me.

The "contact high" argument sounds a whole lot like the "second hand smoke" one. And should we accept either, we should probably accept both. In either case, it sounds like a fantastic argument for banning cigarette and pot smoking in enclosed public places.

I suspect similar arguments to the "it wouldn't make any difference" were used for the continuation of Prohibition. As a avid martini drinker, I would consider it a national tragedy had these arguments prevailed.

As for what decriminalization would "fix", it would get the government out of the wasteful and despotic business of meting out punishments for harmless, private behavior. For rough figures on how much is being wasted, I refer you to this site. We're talking about 5 times the proposed cost of the economic stimulus package or about 3.5 times the cost of the Iraq War.

bighoppa wrote:
TheArtOfScience wrote:

D) Who's the dumbass? SOmeone who smokes pot or someone who wastes tax dollars to lock up someone for smoking pot?

Why can't it be both? And I say that as a former pot smoker.

There is no such thing as a former pot smoker!

*rimshot*

Pharacon wrote:

people can get a contact high from people smoking around them.

Ahh, sweet misinformation. I bet you think secondary smoke is dangerous, too. =)

[EDIT] crap that's what I get for skimming. already been said.

Paleocon wrote:
Pharacon wrote:

Hey I got a suggestion.. who gives a crap. If Pot was legal would it fix anything? No, so who gives a freaking damn. The problem I see with legalizing pot is people can get a contact high from people smoking around them, till this issue is fixed I don't want some dumbass pot head around me.

The "contact high" argument sounds a whole lot like the "second hand smoke" one. And should we accept either, we should probably accept both. In either case, it sounds like a fantastic argument for banning cigarette and pot smoking in enclosed public places.

I suspect similar arguments to the "it wouldn't make any difference" were used for the continuation of Prohibition. As a avid martini drinker, I would consider it a national tragedy had these arguments prevailed.

As for what decriminalization would "fix", it would get the government out of the wasteful and despotic business of meting out punishments for harmless, private behavior. For rough figures on how much is being wasted, I refer you to this site. We're talking about 5 times the proposed cost of the economic stimulus package or about 3.5 times the cost of the Iraq War.

You don't want decriminalization (to go from a criminal offense to a civil or ticket offense), you want legalization. I already spoke on the former.

bighoppa wrote:
Seth wrote:
Pharacon wrote:

people can get a contact high from people smoking around them.

Ahh, sweet misinformation. I bet you think secondary smoke is dangerous, too. =)

I guess I was faking it all those times we filled a room with smoke and I got buzzed? My pee test still came back positive, so it was all the same to me.

Second hand smoke just stinks really bad. It's the third had smoke that will kill you.

It wasn't a DOD/military test then, I take it?

bighoppa wrote:
Seth wrote:
Pharacon wrote:

people can get a contact high from people smoking around them.

Ahh, sweet misinformation. I bet you think secondary smoke is dangerous, too. =)

I guess I was faking it all those times we filled a room with smoke and I got buzzed? My pee test still came back positive, so it was all the same to me.

My google fu is weak at the moment and I only found article on "Aliens Contact Buzz Aldrin" -- so without sources I'll back off on my confidence about contact buzzes.

That being said, Marijuana is a huge revenue leak where the consequences of legalizing it with limits similar to those placed around smoking, gambling, or alcohol are so tiny.

Seth wrote:
Pharacon wrote:

people can get a contact high from people smoking around them.

Ahh, sweet misinformation. I bet you think secondary smoke is dangerous, too. =)

I guess I was faking it all those times we filled a room with smoke and I got buzzed? My pee test still came back positive, so it was all the same to me.

Second hand smoke just stinks really bad. It's the third had smoke that will kill you.

To keep this post on topic:
There is too much money being made on marijuana being kept illegal. *puts on tinfoil hat* There are people in the government who get paid off by the cartels to keep weed illegal. If weed was legalized it would become incredibly cheap and the cartels would lose a huge portion of their income. It will stay illegal until it's no longer profitable.

Shoal07 wrote:

It wasn't a DOD/military test then, I take it?

Epileptic. Not fit for military service

bighoppa wrote:
Shoal07 wrote:

It wasn't a DOD/military test then, I take it?

Epileptic. Not fit for military service :(

I was just going to say that on a military drug test you have to have inhaled. There's no way to piss hot otherwise. Well, you could eat like a metric ton of pot brownies, but then I think you have other problems.

Other places can set the standard lower, so that second hand smoke might leave enough of a trace in your system. Of course, these are the types of places where poppy seed lemon cakes would also trip the sensors.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_contac...

If WikiAnswers says it is so, there is no arguing! ALL HAIL THE INTARWEBS!

Minase wrote:
Do you guys and gals think we'll see a national decriminalization of pot in the next, say, 40 years?

It's all a matter of how long the over-40 crowd in this country sticks around (and votes, of course). If life expectancy increases to 90-100 I don't think we'll see it in the next 40 years.

Between this, our Social Security problems, and food shortages, recycling tanks are looking better all the time.

Staats wrote:

Between this, our Social Security problems, and food shortages, recycling tanks are looking better all the time.

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_cover.jpg)

Marijuana can be grown by anyone, meaning that if it were legal no one in their right mind would pay for it. If it can't be taxed and people can grow it themselves, it will stay illegal.

Tobacco is even less useful than marijuana yet it's legal because it requires too much land to yield sufficient crop for individual use. So big companies with large swaths of land churn it out, sell it to the public, and the government taxes the crap out of it. Everybody's happy: big business and government get their money and smokers get their fix.

Alcohol, including wine, also require large amounts of land or investment to yield constant results making it as out of reach for the common man to produce as tobacco. I dabbled in home brewing for awhile and while I enjoyed my results, it took too long to perfect recipes and took too long to make. Plus brewing kits are rather expensive (we're not talking the plastic Mr. Beer kit here) and take up a lot of room.

So both tobacco and alcohol, while entirely possible for an individual to produce him or herself, are so much more expensive and time consuming than going down to Social Lubricants R Us and grabbing a carton and a six-pack, whereas marijuana can not only be grown easily but can prosper in a small controlled environment.

Too much money made on alcohol, nicotine, and other legal narcotics to lose it all to the inevitable switch to marijuana that everyone would make.

In my opinion, pot should be made legal and government should charge a premium tax on pot smoking appliances and paraphernalia. Everyone knows how much pot smokers take pride in toking from the most wild contraptions imaginable. I don't think an added tax would dissuade them. On the contrary, marijuana legalization might result in an unprecedented influx of tax money to our government due to not only putting the kabash on marijuana related prevention programs, but the inevitable rise of bong, pipe, and Philly blunt sales. Not to mention the new industry built around hemp products. It could lead to hemp being to America what bamboo is to Japan and China.

I don't smoke pot by the way. I swear.

Marijuana can be grown by anyone, meaning that if it were legal no one in their right mind would pay for it. If it can't be taxed and people can grow it themselves, it will stay illegal.

I've heard this argument before and I understand that most 'enthusiasts' will start growing their own, but I'm confident in the power of a) human laziness and b) tobacco-like marketing campaigns to get people buying packs of their favorite brand of mary jane.

It's kind of like preparing your own food - sure, I can usually make something that I really want that is as good as or better than what I'd get in a restaurant, and as long as I follow the recipe I will save money. But instead I like to go out as I don't have to buy the food, prepare it (my skill level isn't expert, so there is a chance that I will screw it up) and most importantly, spend time doing something I really want to do (like play video games!) instead of fussing around with food and cleanup.

Minase wrote:

I've heard this argument before and I understand that most 'enthusiasts' will start growing their own, but I'm confident in the power of a) human laziness and b) tobacco-like marketing campaigns to get people buying packs of their favorite brand of mary jane.

Agreed. If people didn't want to buy stuff in easy-to-use packs we wouldn't have Ramen Noodles. Ramen Noodles is conclusive evidence that a marijuana industry is possible. Come to think of it, most enthusiasts can grow their own now and we still have a giant pot growing industry in this country.

And anybody who was going to choose weed over beer and wine and cigarettes has already done so. The best reason there is for legalizing weed is that there is already a huge, thriving pot trade going on. I am the world's nerdiest dude, and even I could get my hands on some weed in a few hours. But I like the taste of beer better.

Hmm. Just about anyone with a kitchen can brew beer, but most people don't.

Paleocon wrote:

Hmm. Just about anyone with a kitchen can brew beer, but most people don't.

This is what nullifies FSeven's entire argument for me. I can buy the argument of tobacco requiring "huge tracts of land," thereby making it easier to tax, but there is absolutely nothing stopping someone from creating enough beer/wine/liquor for their own annual consumption -- and the consumption of their close friends -- with a bathtub, and some locally found ingredients.

Assuming that every marijuana aficionado is going to want a greenhouse or hydroponics facility on their property is...preposterous.

TheArtOfScience wrote:

C) Any legalization of pot smoking would have to include regulation for where/when it is acceptable. This is already happening around the country with cigarette smoke.

I disagree. The only regulation required would be private land owners regulating if, when and where to allow it on their own land.

People wrote:

Stuff about growing your own.

I can grow my own tobacco, too, but that's not going to make UHF even funnier! I'm not sure if that made any sort of point. Oh man, I could go for some brownies...

Interesting discussion so far!

I think FSeven is on to something. Alcohol and tobacco by their very nature need large corporate entities to turn profits. Legalized pot would (theoretically) cut into the profits of alcohol and tobacco. As FSeven pointed out, it is much easier to grow pot than it is to brew beer or farm tobacco in your back yard. The alcohol and tobacco industries have massive leverage they can draw upon to make certain that theirs is the only game in town.

Also, I don't need a url link to tell me there is such a thing as a contact buzz. I'm sure everyone here has hotboxed with Lil Jacob in GTA IV.

I totally agree with the Ramen noodle idea. I'm a good capitalist, I like fancy packaging!

Now I'm tempted to photoshop a pack of the 'Ole Tobey but I won't.

I wrote a lengthy argumentative paper in favor of legalizing dope a few years back. Take weed, make it "legal", tax the piss out of it and call it a day.

Same thing with prostitution.

I've never done drugs or solicited prostitutes but neither behavior particularily bothers me.