Farcry 3, Lego LOTR, Bioshock Infinite Impressions, Persona 4 Golden, Special Guest Jeff Cannata, Much Ado About Spoilers, Your Emails and more!
This week Jeff Cannata joins Shawn, Elysium and Julian to talk some Bioshock Infinite and whether or not spoilers (in general) are such a big deal.
To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.
Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.03.09 Far Cry 3
00.16.19 LOTR: Guardians of Middle Earth
00.25.28 5 minutes+ on Bioshock Infinite
00.32.50 Sean's new piece of kit: Galaxy Note 2!
00.36.38 Persona 4: now with background music!
00.38.20 Baldur's Gate (iPad version)
00.41.13 This week's sponsor--takethisproject.tumblr.com. Board member Elysium explains!
00.44.36 This week's topic: Spoilers!
01.02.01 Your emails!
Like a Dream Come True - Persona 4 Golden - http://www.atlus.com/p4g/ - 36:41
Tell Me a Story - SGX - http://sgxmusic.com/ - 44:06
Composer - SGX - http://sgxmusic.com/ - 1:01:35
Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks
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It sounds like it to an extent, except that it's third-world ruins instead of post-civilization ruins. I need to pick it up... someday...
I didn't listen to the podcast yet, but that was correctly attributed to GameStop, right? I literally heard that out loud while in a GameStop. I didn't know if GameStop...
A) Didn't know about that joke / meme.
B) Was trolling its customers
Also, Fallout 4 is just Skyrim with Guns. Elder Scrolls 6 is Fallout 4 with swords.
I'd tell you, but SPOILERS
Actually, I would like to see a VATS style melee system in the next Elder Scrolls game -- it can't be worse than the janky melee they currently have.
Defunk'd Bloggue
Bluesky: @lancecalhoon.bsky.social
I loved the discussion about spoilers on the podcast. As someone with what has been described as a photographic memory I have long since given up on avoiding spoilers. I even let my friends tell me the ending of the game without reservation. I find that my experience with the game and ending is often different enough that even though the ending happens in the same way it means something different for me.
I always ask people when they get upset about spoilers if they like art. Everyone knows what the Mona Lisa or A Bar at the Folies-Bergere looks like but people still go in droves to see them in person. Why? Because there are details and the experience of seeing the painting yourself that color the enjoyment. This is no different for a movie or game. I would even argue that there is a sequential experience of a painting based on how the artist created it to move your eye across the work.
I would also bring up the example travel. You see pictures of the Grand Canyon, Paris, or London all the time. Does that mean you spoiled the experience of going there? No, because you will have your own enjoying experience and journey through the location. Just go out and enjoy the game. Besides; I often find that the spoilers I hear are inaccurate or misjudged anyways.
No gaming until kitties get dinner. This rule shall not be questioned or broken. =^.^=
Steam/PSN/NNID - blondish83
I still don't understand this concept of a "larger" spoiler when talking to a bunch of dudes who listen to video game podcasts and post comments on a gaming site. Asking for courtesy seems absolutely insane when you, the gamer, are going out of your way to listen and absorb 'game stuff.'
Especially seeing as most podcasts/forums/article headers have the subject and bullet point details as to what they will be talking about.
When the great people at GWJ and other sites/podcasts opt to do it, it definitely is a courtesy. They really don't have [nor should in my opinion] do it. If you are that big of a fanboy to download a gaming podcast. Then you should be that big of a fanboy to play a game at launch [which is ridiculous, but I'm calling it how I see it].
I'm a huge fan of the Wire. You'd never see me going to forums...listening to podcasts or playing audio commentaries prior to watching an episode. But hey, that's just me.
Oh, and me being 30 year-old black male in America is plenty relevant. I'm giving you more information about myself though it wasn't required. Spoiler.
If I were you...I'd hate me too
Bboy, too many personal attacks and name calling. You can make your points without it and they'll be much stronger than way. You need to correct that or you won't be participating.
“Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” ― Howard Thurman
And I stand by this, when you were a kid and didn't have a bloated ego that dwelled on expectations and commitment...this helped in the consumption of media. When you got older your tastes became more narrow and understandibly more finite. Which is sad, because there is a big difference in spoiling a Call of Duty story than say a Walking Dead.
And I don't subscribe that one story is more poetic than others, but I am in the camp that thinks it's equally fair to 'spoil' both if it's a current topic and you're with present company that have interest in it.
When you were a child, having Legend of Zelda spoiled for you wasn't a big deal. You just wanted to play the game [probably, sorry...again...at work grasping for examples].
Now if you spoil a game of your particular, extremely refined, and totally awesome interest. HUGE LET DOWN. WORLD ENDING. That is something...I'll just never get.
As someone who has worked at a video rental and smut dispensary for about 4 years I can tell you the average amount of movies going from film to DVD is 3 months [in the US]. In most cases the DVDs are made [as in printed and ready to ship] around the time of a films release.
Now for 'specialty' or at my old job "custom budgets" for say a Lord of the Rings or a Dark Knight. Movies where studios really want to juice the consumer. They'll release a basic DVD in one region [usually the US, EU, or JP] a special edition/delux edition 3-6 months after that release and a collectors edition follows a year later.
Blu-Ray typically works at a slower pace. But the average film that isn't doing 200+ million in a box office comes out within 3-6 months. To learn more feel free to check out HomeMedia or BoxOfficeMojo.
If I were you...I'd hate me too
Gravey - I am vindicated! I was right!
Q-Stone2E3: SallyN is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
Wembley wrote:The quickest way to SallyNasty's heart is through a collectibles guide.
If you have opted to shelter yourself in a community of majoraly sheltered males. There really isn't much I can say that could convince you that what you're doing is both counterproductive and ... yeah, [edit: not smart].
If you don't want to know anything about the game that has a gazillion dollar budget, has plastered ads all over youtube/twitter/internet website of choice, then blaming your peers for one of Earth's loudest echo chambers is... yeah, [edit: not smart].
I get it man. It's cool. We can have a great conversation about whatever "thing" you don't want to know that much about. But it's just as valid to remove yourself from the conversation instead of asking of others to be courteous and shout "earmuffs" whenever the grown ups are saying something you hold so dear in experiencing for the first time.
I actually don't care to be called a jerk, or any other name for that matter. This is the internet and I've lived long enough to have grown a thick skin to it. I live in a world where people are going to call me names, blab about things I don't care about, and 'prefer' to engage in idiotic behavior.
Sorry, I couldn't hear you, I was paying my bills and working an 8 to 8 shift. What's this about you being mature and calling me a dick in the same breath?
If I were you...I'd hate me too
I edited what I thought was personal. Is it cool to call people dicks and jerks or am I responsible for having him stoop to my level?
If I were you...I'd hate me too
Great episode, as always.
My first thought was that it would be good to have Rob Borges on the call, since he is the most zealous anti-spoiler person I can think of, but I understand the fear of having a zealot on.
My take on spoilers is just that people should be considerate when it is something that matters. It's been a very long time since it came out, and it is well known now, but the scene in Empire Strikes Back where Vader reveals that he is Luke's father loses a little bit when it doesn't come as unexpectedly to us as it does for Luke. "Would you kindly" is another example, if given context, that I would consider a spoiler, but without that context it is just a harmless phrase.
I think you can see the silliest example of spoiler-phobia in the Walking Dead (tv show) threads here. A whole thread exists to discuss the episodes as shown, saying the word "comic" in there gets a nasty response. The bad part is that that thread is where the bulk of the conversation is taking place, so if someone who has read the comics wants to chime in on the show, they have to be careful or they anger the spoiler-phobes. Of course, the nature of spoilers is that it is easy to accommodate people who don't want to hear spoilers, and I think this podcast does a great job with that, so bravo.
Steam: Atras
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XBox Live: Atras
I'm way in the camp of spoilerphobes ruin the fun of discussing things.
I mean, I can respect the desire to go in with a clean slate, discovering things and being surprised.
But it's up to you to make sure that happens.
I can understand someone being frustrated that someone spoiled the reveal that Bruce Willis was a woman in the Sixth Sense during a discussion of something completely unrelated, but if you complain about that in a thread discussing the movie after it's gone into general release? If you're that spoiler-phobic, the onus should be on you to stay the f*ck away from the thread until you've watched it, not on everyone else to hamper the discussion for the sake of your viewing experience.
Games I can understand people wanting to separate discussions of mechanics from discussion of the plot, but even the spoiler threads are filled with spoiler tags these days. Utter madness.
If you click on a spoiler thread and get spoilt, the problem is not with the person revealing the plot point. It's you.
Do you read Sutter Cane?
Playground rules don't apply here. You're responsible for your own content, everyone is dealt with individually.
“Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” ― Howard Thurman
I saw the Mona Lisa and was a little disappointed by it, and I think that is a common reaction. I had already seen it so many times, and had built up expectations. Also, seeing it in person isn't the optimal viewing experience because of the way it is set up and the size. My best experiences viewing art have been the random discoveries of artists or paintings I have never heard of, not the viewing of the classics.
Similarly, imagine if you had never seen or heard of the Grand Canyon, and you were just driving across country and came across it. It would be a stunning moment. I used to eat up travel books trying to optimize my trips. Now I try to avoid overplanning, and travel looking for the serendipitous experience.
I think some of the defenders of spoilers are conflating it with "ruining" when I think it is more that spoilers just lessen the experience. The Grand Canyon is still great.. ;}
On the subject of romance, and making a game rooted in romance, I'd agree that it's a dicey proposition if you expect the protagonist to be a player surrogate, but I'd say it's much easier if the protagonist is a character apart from the player, with whom you have to emphatise.
Take Lee from The Walking Dead. Even if you can can adjust his decisions, he's a character with a defined personality, very much apart from the player. I'm invested in his wellbeing, not in the sense of "this is my player avatar", but I actually care about the character as an entity apart from me. I think that's the way to make it work. Instead of making some character with whom the player has to fall in love, create a character with whom the player can emphatise that is in love,
Do you read Sutter Cane?
If I'm at the Louvre, I'm making a bee-line for Hammurabi's Stele. The Mona Lisa's distinctly lower ranked in priorities.
You bastard, Tanglebones. :)
ClockworkHouse wrote:Yay! My Sony bone is getting tangled!
thrawn82 wrote:Tanglebones is a better man than I, in tears at my desk.
About Anna Karenina?
I don't think we are as far apart in our views as you imagine. Not everyone who wants to avoid spoilers is a raving lunatic.
Of course people are free in real life or on podcasts to talk about games including spoilers. It's just that I personally, and I don't think it's anything to do with maturity or lack there of, want to try to go into games like The Walking Dead with as little knowledge of the plot as possible. Other games, Halo, etc, I don't care about spoilers at all really. I don't go out of my way to find out the endings but it wouldn't phase me to know them. It certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.
The system at the moment works for me. I can listen to the podcast and visit threads of games I don't own yet because people on this form are incredibly considerate. If that stopped, which is fine if the current system is driving people crazy, then I'd listen to shows after I've played the games and avoid forum threads (the later is a shame because I glean some great information from those threads including whether people, who I have similar tastes to, think it's worth buying or not.)
An example of a podcast that deals with spoilers brilliantly is the /filmcast.
I hope you like thrill rides - Luis Serra, Resident Evil 4 Remake
Uncharted 4 Multiplayer: Half Nelson
Thank You for making me aware of Take This Project.
It is a huge relief to realize that people that I have something in common with are going through the same things I am. Reading about fellow gamers, parents, professionals is making it easier to consider getting help.
I want to second this. The google has failed me.
Here you go! http://thelastpsychiatrist.com
“Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” ― Howard Thurman
I don't remember who said it in the podcast, but somebody mentioned that it's impossible to avoid spoilers completely "in our media-driven culture". My wife, however, succeeds admirably in this. She watches every trailer up until the moment she decides she wants to see this movie. From this point on - she begins talking to me and avoiding looking at the screen, so she won't get to see the rest of the trailer. In cases where she knows she will see the movie anyway, she tries to avoid trailers altogether. And she usually succeeds.
I try to follow her approach when dealing with games and movies that I know I want to play/watch (that's why I skipped your Bioshock Infinite segement), but the thing I really wanted to tell (which prompted me to comment after listening to your show for quite a long time) is a small tale about a friend of mine, who usually avoids movie trailers altogether, and whose approach is to say 'yes' whenever I invite him to see a movie with us without asking too many questions.
This friend knew nothing about Cloverfield before I invited him to come and see it with us, and he sat there for about ten minutes, not understanding what kind of movie I've taken him to. Some kind of... weird... found-footage... drama? comedy? huh?
He still remembers very fondly the shock that he felt when the movie 'kicks in'. I still remember the sounds of shock from him. And since then, he tries even more to just rely on his friends' recommendations, and avoid trailers and previews as much as possible.
Despicable Me was spoiled for me and my enjoyment was muted. Also, I can't unremember the ending to Ico even though I really want to because I haven't played it yet.
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Friend code: 0447-8302-5512
It's funny that you would bring up Eureka, because on multiple occasions character deaths on that show were spoiled for me and it has made me incredibly more spoiler-phobic than I was before. Both times it happened I feel it hugely affected my emotional reaction to the scene, and both times I ran across these spoilers in places that they had no business being. So, am I careful about spoilers? You better believe it.
That said, I listen to every spoiler section on the conference call, and in general I haven't played the games in question. In fact, some of my favorite podcasts are spoiler sections and things like the Rebel FM Game Clubs (RIP). The difference there is that in most cases I won't be playing those games, or if I do, it will probably be influenced in part by my spoiling myself on the plot. However, if it's something that I definitely will be playing/watching, I want nothing to do with spoilers and I do not think that they would enhance the experience in any meaningful way. If I want to experience the content with that a priori knowledge, I can always replay/read/watch it again, knowing the full plot. In fact, if I enjoy it then it pretty much goes without saying that I'll be doing so. If I don't enjoy it, then it's a moot point anyway.
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