Batman: Arkham City, Dark Souls, Orcs Must Die, Sticky Game Mechanics, Your Emails, Twitters and more!
This week Cory, Julian, Allen and Shawn talk sticky game mechanics and hit a whole bunch of your Twitters and Emails.
To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.
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Music credits:
Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks
Main Theme - Batman: Arkham City - http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/ - 35:33
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I am with you Garion - I listen assuming that the hosts are not going to throw out spoilers without warning, and I feel pretty miffed when they do so.
Q-Stone2E3: SallyN is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
Wembley wrote:The quickest way to SallyNasty's heart is through a collectibles guide.
Added in a little something.
I agree with you both, but I'm also a person who really enjoys the journey of discovery and when you know the end or important pieces of the puzzle it turns into a different journey. I re-read books all the time for the things you mention, but when we're talking first time through I'd like to go in with as few "answers" or preconceived notions as possible.
I also agree that the gaming community at large is a bit obsessed with spoilers (especially considering game completion percentage), but that doesn't mean I think we should ignore the negative impact spoiling things can have on other people.
Also, health insurance should be free and not funded through taxes.
How did I live before digital distribution of old, cheap games?
MilkmanDanimal wrote:You did live before digital distribution of old, cheap games. Now you just play games.
I can't speak for doubtingthomas396 but, for me, it's not just that some "nebulous bad thing" could occur, though that's certainly something that could happen.
The core issue with Steam's model of digital-only distribution (and, to a lesser extent, all digital-only distribution) is that it requires an exchange of consumer ownership, rights, and privacy for purchasing convenience. It's a trade that gives the service provider all the leverage.
To their credit, Valve has piled on a lot of sugar to sweeten the deal: easier application upkeep through automatic patching, community features, etc. And, arguably, no other provider has pushed the savings from digital distribution to the customer like Steam has done through their various sales and bundles.
But none of that changes the fact that this trade, at its very core, shifts a much more favorable return to the provider, just like GameStop's various machinations for used sales or pre-orders. And the point, I think, is that all the sugar in the world doesn't make Steam's version of the exchange "superior" for the marketplace at large, even though it might make it a more appealing deal for you as an individual consumer. It just makes it different.
Also, I tend to agree with the concern that convenience is some kind of worthy trump card over everything else. After listening to all of the various discussions of digital distribution on the internet, one might believe that purchasing a game in person at a brick and mortar store is some kind of unfathomable tragedy. (Note: I do acknowledge that, regrettably, GameStop's customer "service" is not an effective refutation of this point.)
Convenience is nice, sure, but it isn't so important to me that I would consider any concession of rights to obtain it to be inconsequential.
"@OzymandiasAV No, you're just indicative of the sjw infestation in the gaming media." -- Brad Wardell
Though I don't much care for him, I have to admit Chuck Klosterman remains spot on regarding spoilers:
I appreciate the segregated spoiler sections--if I care, I can avoid them, if I don't, I can listen. Gives me...what's that word...Agency.
PSN: SpacePProtean
Unsound Methods
The King of Cups Expects a Picnic: A podcast dedicated to the joys and sorrows of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
This is really what it all boils down to, nicely said. I am absolutely willing to make that tradeoff.
Michael
So I just ordered Shadows of the Damned due to the podcasters gushing over it - don't let me down, you sassy bastards!
Q-Stone2E3: SallyN is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
Wembley wrote:The quickest way to SallyNasty's heart is through a collectibles guide.
Hear, hear.
In regards to spoilers, I just hate when an interesting conversation is put on hold for the sake of not spoiling the game. All too often I see podcasts say "we'll go back to this later and have a spoiler conversation", but most of the time that never happens. We all know there are way too many games coming out for a show to be going back weeks later to talk passionately about a game they are no longer playing or thinking about.
On another note, at least on the 360 the Catwoman stuff integrated into my game as soon as it was installed (I initially started the game without it). The hysterics I've heard on a few different podcasts over the Catwoman DLC is pretty stupid (I'm looking at you Garnett Lee) considering what a minor part of the game it is. Yes, it's a lot of fun, and damn she's hot, but having played all that content I would not have noticed if it were never there in the first place. Her roll in the story is peripheral at best. It brings up a lot of interesting topics on where DLC can go wrong, but most of the complaints being leveled against it are ringing hollow to me.
Also, 4 hours for 250MB? Holy crap PSN sucks.
Fine, some other examples of Steam forcing content updates for negative effects: Terraria added items, and changed the way the game played regardless of where you were at prior to the update and an update that broke game saves from before the update in Mount & Blade. Both affected me. In the case of Mount & Blade, I was 15-20hrs into the game, but there was a work around of running the game through the 'demo' with, but now I cannot get the demo to load, so I've lost ~35hrs of a nearly completed campaign.
Point being, Portal and PvZ are not the only times Valve has forced an update that's caused issues, they're just the biggest instances and just about the only ones that got press. Yet, I still make Steam my much preferred PC gaming platform, because they have yet to rip a game from my library or do something of nearly unforgivable measure. It should also be noted that the game updates for all but Portal were mandated by the developers. I just wish Steam would have an option for delaying updates when it will impact gameplay/progress.
Backloggery
Didn't they cancel that game?
Anyway, I'm probably just miffed that the cast of the show doesn't immediately turn around, write up an amazing article about what they stopped themselves from saying, and send it to me so we can have it edited and workshopped for the following week's Front Page.
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
You are being lax with your discipline. You must punish them in order to get results!
Q-Stone2E3: SallyN is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
Wembley wrote:The quickest way to SallyNasty's heart is through a collectibles guide.
Dude, I'm trying!
"$10 - Exclusive Sean-cam where he just shakes his head, over and over." From Pyro's Kickstarter, "Endless Pit of Human Misery Livestream"
So again, Steam's only involvement is as a distributor. This isn't a Steam issue, it's a general digital distribution issue. You don't even need a platform like Steam for this to be a problem, there is plenty of software out there that automatically updates itself. Microsoft, Adobe, and Mozilla products do it, hell even Minecraft does it. If Steam pushes out a bad patch, blame the developer that failed to adequately test their update, not the distribution channel. If Notch pushes out a Minecraft update that breaks the game I don't start blaming the Internet.
It could be worse—muttonchop could be right too.
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
Brilliant. Dark Souls loves me. It all makes sense now. Dark Souls is sitting in my console saying "It hurts me more than it hurts you".
On the other hand, Dark Souls isn't annoyed that I'm in their way, screwing up their fancy QTE cutscenes.
But...you don't know how you would have felt about the story previously. How can you know that your enjoyment wasn't lessened? Have you been traveling in time and sexing up your grandparents again?
I'm not saying we shouldn't use Steam. I myself own a few games on Steam (Plants versus Zombies is one of them) I'm saying I don't want Steam (or any digital download model) to be my only option for buying games.
They're always talking on the podcast about how the elimination of plastic disc based media is going away and how awesome that future is. I'm saying it's a future I don't want, any more than I want a future where the only restaurant is Taco Bell.
Saying you want to have the ability to choose not to do something isn't the same as saying you don't want anyone else to choose it. In this scenario, I'm not the one who gets giddy at the prospect of someone elses choices being reduced.
And the fact that ANY DDO system can do what Steam has the capability to do but "won't" because they're too nice is supposed to be a strike against my argument? You're right, it's not just steam. It's any DDO provider. I fail to see how this makes it better.
It's bad enough that disc based games often have the same patch problem. But at least if I don't like a patch I can uninstall and reinstall to an older release. With DDO you can't back it up, you can't resell it, you can't even give it to a friend once you're done because you don't actually get anything for your money. Not even a disc that contains a gold copy of the media.
Gamestop may be operated by some mythical creature of unparalleled voraciousness (possibly a grue), but at least I can take a stack of games I don't want to play anymore and get credit to buy new games. I bought Oblivion on disc because I loved Fallout 3 so much. Couldn't stand the game, so I traded it in. In the DDO world that everyone here seems to want to live in, the full purchase price would have been forfeit and the only evidence that I received any value for my money would be a PDF of a receipt.
I'm not so adamantly opposed to pants that I want that to be everyone's experience.
Jonman Wrote:
Yes, you can cancel Darksiders, but only by using your Sony Golds. Which, while pretty good, aren't a patch on Zelda.
I'm A Steam Curator!
At least for me, I'm far less interested in the experience of the story. Even if the story were half as "fun" for me, if the conversation were then 10% deeper because of it, I would feel like that was a good deal.
There's no shortage of fun or game experiences for me. And frankly, a lot of games don't value my time as much as I do.
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
Except that in both Microsoft and Adobe's situation (haven't ever gone option hunting in Firefox) they let you disable / put off the updates. Steam has a 'do not update' option that basically just keeps it from updating under some random unknown circumstance or while you are already in another game. That's a big difference. I was able to avoid Windows 7 SP1 (and even do a restore to prior to the update) when there was one small feature I didn't want to lose due to the update.
Backloggery
Agreed. We'll see how long that podcast stays in my list. I also found it interesting that no one in that discussion has pointed out that, if you can't or don't use the code, it still has value, whether or not you resell the game. So, you're paying $60 for a $50 game and a $10 code you can choose to use or sell.
Maybe it's because I'm not trying to grab these things on day one, but even 2GB downloads don't take 4 hours for me. I think I typically sustain somewhere between 50 and 100 MB per minute.
Unless the game has any sort of auto-update functionality, then you'll still need to unplug your router every time you play - better hope it doesn't have any Ubisoft-style DRM that requires an internet connection, or you're doubly screwed. Look, if you can't trust a developer to not mess around with your game, then don't buy their games. Don't blame the infrastructure when the content creator is acting in bad faith.
It could be worse—muttonchop could be right too.
1) The PS3 wireless is slow as crap. Never use it. When I switched to wired my speeds skyrocketed compared to what I was getting before. Could be the issue here.
2) 50mb a minute? You sure about that? What in the hell kind of internet do you have cause I want.
3) Sometimes downloads do take a lot longer than they should. The 1 gig update for GT5 went incredibly slow for me the other week. I think their network just sucks sometimes. And I wasn't downloading it right when the patch was released either. So, it's possible he just got on at the wrong time.
4) I don't like ending on odd numbers.
How did I live before digital distribution of old, cheap games?
MilkmanDanimal wrote:You did live before digital distribution of old, cheap games. Now you just play games.
I could pull that down in 10 seconds at home off Steam. What kind of sad, slow connection you running?
“Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” ― Howard Thurman
lol Yeah, my brain read that as seconds for some reason.
How did I live before digital distribution of old, cheap games?
MilkmanDanimal wrote:You did live before digital distribution of old, cheap games. Now you just play games.
Even 50MB/s doesn't strike me as crazy in some countries.
Broke the spoiler talk into its own thread. I think we had this discussion a year or two ago, but there a lot of new folks now so it could pick up some steam anyway.
Well Minarchist was no help at all.
It's my dead horse, and I'll beat it if I want to!
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
Yeah, but probably not in Seattle. At least not on the cheap.
How did I live before digital distribution of old, cheap games?
MilkmanDanimal wrote:You did live before digital distribution of old, cheap games. Now you just play games.
Are you guys meaning big-B Bytes or little-b bits? 50Mb/sec isn't at all unreasonable, but 50MB/sec (or 400Mb/sec) seems high for pretty much anywhere.
Well Minarchist was no help at all.
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