Google Android catch-all

I anxiously await real-life user (Goodjer, especially) reviews of this. My contract is up in January, and I'll be getting this or the iPhone, depending on what looks better.

As someone who really, really wanted this phone to be awesome, I'll just come out and say it: Hideous. Unfinished. Half-assed. Say what you will about Apple's policies (and I'm anything *but* a fan of Apple's), but that 3g iPhone is damn nice.

The whole Android interface seems like it could use a lot of improvements *Multitouch*.

Edwin wrote:

Gizmodo has a good piece up on how f'ed the phone is.

http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/f...
http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/f...

The security waffle in that second link is a bit ridiculous -- we've had phones for years now running Windows Mobile, Palm, Symbian, etc. that provide just the same level of access to the hardware as Android does, but for some reason that article makes the argument that it's a terrible, terrible thing in Android. The only real way the iPhone is different is in having Apple as the overseer, limiting what applications end users can download, but that's definitely the wrong way to do things.

I'm sure there are a bunch of rough edges and missing features, and it'll probably never be as elegant as the iPhone, but there's massive scope for developers at Google, at any one of the other companies in the Open Handset Alliance, or in the community, to fix problems and add functionality. I wouldn't get one on day one, but I can't way to see where it'll be at in another 12 months.

Yeah alot of those complaints are pretty lame.. I never expected the first Android phone to be a complete slam dunk.. theres always going to be some tweaks that need to get made over time. I would love to see a Nokia take on Android though.

I eagerly await the community packs that will be released that fix all the wrong things.

Yeah, because being Open Source always solves all the problems. Why, just look at how we're all running X Windows, which after a mere 25 years is clearly the most usable, polished, and user-friendly desktop environment ever created!

Edwin wrote:

The cap is 1 GB of data per month then they throttle you to 50 kbps. Details are in the link.

Text of the agreement is in the link. Important details are still missing. They "may reduce you to 50kbps or less". There's a couple of qualifiers in there that make a big difference - the "may" makes me less worried, the "or less" makes me more worried. There's no confirmation whether this is going to be automatically enforced or whether it's one of those things where they reserve the right to wield the rate limiter against people running torrents off their phone.

The engadget article links to instances of other companies having similar clauses, but they all seem to be for tethered devices and have higher soft caps.

Still, it's certainly a concern. If I was planning on doing substantial multimedia on my phone, I wouldn't want to take the risk.

Yeah, I hate the idea of an internet-surfing computer in my pocket where I have to watch out for how much bandwidth I use. I want to be carefree, in a world without limits! I want to SOAR!

peterb wrote:

Yeah, because being Open Source always solves all the problems. Why, just look at how we're all running X Windows, which after a mere 25 years is clearly the most multi-platform, network functional, supporting generations of older hardware other modern GUIs couldn't possibly run on environment ever created!

Fixed. Missing the point of X11's purpose doesn't make for a sound argument.

*Legion* wrote:

Fixed. Missing the point of X11's purpose doesn't make for a sound argument.

Oh, I see. People used to say that X11 was intended to be a windowing system for the future, but apparently when I wasn't looking, it's purpose has morphed into being a windowing system for the past! Now its complete inadequacy for just about any job makes so much sense.

X is, as the flyer below correctly observes, more than just bad software: it's actually a heinous software crime, and perpetuating its use is downright harmful.

X windows. A mistake carried out to perfection. X windows. Dissatisfaction guaranteed. X windows. Don't get frustrated without it. X windows. Even your dog won't like it.

peterb wrote:

People used to say that X11 was intended to be a windowing system for the future

Obliterate straw men somewhere else. Trolling doesn't fly here.

Returning to the point at hand, I wasn't really intending to focus on X, whose many crippling flaws have been documented elsewhere. Rather I was expressing skepticism at the doctrine that open source has ever fixed core problems with the design and architecture of a product.

I can absolutely believe "the gPhone will get better." But if it gets better it's going to be because google improves it, not because "many eyes make bugs shallow." The only thing many eyes are going to make for the gPhone are an endless lineup of "Sailor Moon" skins for the user interface.

T-Mobile removed the 1GB limit.

I'll remove it from the list of cons.

Well that's a step in the right direction.

What about "can successfully make a phone call while in 3G mode"?

If that gets confirmed, that would be a big pro.

*Legion* wrote:

What about "can successfully make a phone call while in 3G mode"?

If that gets confirmed, that would be a big pro. :)

Am I missing something?

peterb wrote:

Returning to the point at hand, I wasn't really intending to focus on X, whose many crippling flaws have been documented elsewhere. Rather I was expressing skepticism at the doctrine that open source has ever fixed core problems with the design and architecture of a product.

I can absolutely believe "the gPhone will get better." But if it gets better it's going to be because google improves it, not because "many eyes make bugs shallow." The only thing many eyes are going to make for the gPhone are an endless lineup of "Sailor Moon" skins for the user interface.

No-one's suggesting that it'll magically get better with no effort from anyone simply because it's open-source -- just like any other software, it only gets better when developers work on it. You seem to have this notion, though, that open-source developers can only be hobbyists working at home in their spare time, but that idea is laughably out-of-date. Probably the overwhelming majority of open-source development today, particularly on major projects, is performed by paid developers.

Of course Google can and will improve Android, but because it's open-source, so can Motorola, Intel, HTC, Qualcomm, LG, Samsung, or any of the other dozens of members of the Open Handset Alliance. All of these companies can work together on both the core Android product, and their own customisations, and they all benefit from each other's success. We too, as users, benefit from that.

The assertion that open-source development has never fixed core design/architecture problems is completely laughable as well. Open-source development tends to be gradual and iterative, rather than coming all-at-once in massive releases every few years, but it's not hard to take a Linux distro from 10 years ago and see just how much things have changed in that time. Even with the preference toward iterative development, many major projects have gone exactly the kind of major, fundamental redesign you refer to in that time and come out the other side better than ever.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Am I missing something?

For many people, the iPhone 3G is nearly unusable for making/receiving phone calls when the 3G antenna is on.

Well that's a bit of an issue.

*Legion* wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

Am I missing something?

For many people, the iPhone 3G is nearly unusable for making/receiving phone calls when the 3G antenna is on.

I believe that the newest firmware update fixed that issue. It was a big problem though.

Although I don't want to "buy-in" into the apple-dom. The Iphone seems to incorperate my media better than the HTC. Although I love my Zune I'm sick of carrying it everywhere.

I've taken quick looks at the SDK for both the iPhone and Android.

Setting aside questions of the open source nature of the operating system, there's no question that I'd prefer to write apps for Android. Unless I was being paid to write something for iPhone (or thought I could sell something), I'm not going to jump through the buy a mac/wade through objective C/agree to obnoxious licensing requirements/hope my app can be distributed mess. I can download everything I need for android and write code without having to jump through hoops or learn new languages.

I'm still not sure that the ability to write software for my phone is important enough to influence my phone choice. I haven't been craving the ability to write code for my current phone.

Shouldn't this thread be pretty active right about now? No one still interested in this thing?

It's not out yet and not much news has been released.

I'm still leaning towards picking one up.

I'm thinking about the new Blackberry - Thunder? Storm? I forget. "Clickable" touchscreen, Verizon network, SIM card that VZ will, allegedly, unlock on request to allow you to seek out another carrier.

The G1 really just isn't doing it for me, and I'm not switching to Tmobile. Perhaps when they really get cooking next year. Seems like they just need a little more time in the oven.

Engadget reports that TechFaith is working on an Android phone currently ...

I'm pretty interested - I'm currently debating whether to preorder one, or wait until I can play with one in a store (which could be a while). And there's the issue of whether to buy the 1.0 version, or wait for 1.x. Because otherwise, it looks like it does exactly what I need it to do, and I'd get to stay on T-Mobile, which would be a plus.

For a while I considered an iPhone, but having to use iTunes for everything is a complete deal-breaker - that piece of app is in its own special category of horrible. And Apple's heavy-handed (indeed, Microsoft-like) maneuvers don't inspire sympathy, either.

doihaveto wrote:

I'm pretty interested - I'm currently debating whether to preorder one, or wait until I can play with one in a store (which could be a while).

I'm in a non-TMobile 3G market and the TMobile store clerk told me because of it they will not have the G1 in store on launch (10/22 I think?) but they will have it by the end of November for demo and purchase. I don't think you'd have trouble checking out a display unit by the end of Oct/early Nov.

(FWIW, the clerk told me the 3G in Pittsburgh is getting switched on in early 2009.)

Minneapolis is a T-Mobile 3G area, and the phone sales kiosk guy told me they'd have demo units in "a couple of weeks" a week or so ago.