Dwarf Fortress you sick temptress, you!

feeank wrote:

Wow....I'm speechless, Kudos Quintin, your work is a call to arms to those of us who have enjoyed this game in the past and have strayed away from it following pixels and normal mapping, the even stepper learning curve that this whole Z-axis gave the game, also opened up a huge new world of posibilities of exploration and challenges. In your case you based your tower on LOTR's Orthanc but I can't help wondering what other marvels are people building out there from their own inspiration, it's just mindblowing and I'll shut up now cause I'm downloading the latest version...again, congrats on this and thanks for sharing it!

There's some amazing architecture, more so than mine. Check out this thread about the 3D Visualizer tool I used:
http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/...

KeskesKal (Scratchshot) Or how I call it, The Bauxite-Red Resource-hog (No idea how to make those fancy thumbnail links, sorry if this is too heavy)

erhm...insert really cool and imaginative story here, full of wit and referencial humor (I'm not up to the task for that)

Lower levels, mining/workshops
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_6.jpg)
Lower levels, mining/workshops
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_5.jpg)

Lower levels, mining/storage
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_4.jpg)

main level, dining rooms, offices, throne room, burial, quarters, Shops, storage
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_3.jpg)
Surface Level
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_2.jpg)
The tower
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_7.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_8.jpg)
From afar
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_9.jpg)
A view from the top
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_1.jpg)
this is how the tower was supposed to look
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/keskeskal_plan2.png)
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_BP2.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/Keskeskal_BP1.jpg)

Sadly, it seems I chose a very high region..., I can't climb up anymore in the map (it doesn't go up over a determined Z-Level) any pointer on a way to avoid this very cold shower before picking up a region in the future would be great...

Thanks QS for rekindling my DF flame, and provinding links of arcane knowledge

PS: I came up with some cool story for the fort, or at least an idea of how it should go, it involves jealous deities and vertigo-prone Mason Guild members ; )

feeank wrote:

Sadly, it seems I chose a very high region..., I can't climb up anymore in the map (it doesn't go up over a determined Z-Level) any pointer on a way to avoid this very cold shower before picking up a region in the future would be great...

Thanks QS for rekindling my DF flame, and provinding links of arcane knowledge

PS: I came up with some cool story for the fort, or at least an idea of how it should go, it involves jealous deities and vertigo-prone Mason Guild members ; )

Oof. Um, I'm not sure. I think you can only go a certain number of levels above the highest point of land. So a region with steep cliffs will have a higher ceiling, if you build in a low-lying area.

That's a really cool looking design. Is there any particular significance to its shape?

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Oof. Um, I'm not sure. I think you can only go a certain number of levels above the highest point of land. So a region with steep cliffs will have a higher ceiling, if you build in a low-lying area.

That's a really cool looking design. Is there any particular significance to its shape?

Thanks man, I dont' think there is, not from my part I least, I wanted to make something odd, menacing and asimmetrical, two spheres intersecting a tilted triangle seemed cool enough. But now I realize the design is a bit flawed aesthetically speaking (the upper sphere structure should be exactly mid-height in the tower...) However, I've learn a lot with this project, I could actually give it another try with a tweaked design after this first attempt, It should be a little bit broader and the sphere structures should look spherical, if that makes sense : / I also realized that I had no idea how to take water up the tower, it worries me having dwarves falling 60 Z-levels down a well shaft to the the undergound water reservorium.

Carrying water up high altitudes is a challenge. You'll need powered pumps (1 per level) and a good source of power (a self-contained water-wheel generator, most likely). That tower is, what, 60 levels high? Quite an undertaking.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Carrying water up high altitudes is a challenge. You'll need powered pumps (1 per level) and a good source of power (a self-contained water-wheel generator, most likely). That tower is, what, 60 levels high? Quite an undertaking.

Hmm couldn't you build a series of spirals with waterwheels and pumps to power the whole thing?

I got a bit burned out on my latest castle. I made an impenetrable route to my castle using spikes linked to a lever. So I had no problem with any attacks. I moved all my operation to the second lowest level on the z-axis, and had a self sustaining fortress down there which I would never have to leave again if I wanted. I also got sick of the amount of loot I got from all the goblin attacks, next time I will create a draw bridge trap, so I won't be overwhelmed again. There are worse problems to have. I also dug out the entire second lowest region from top to bottom, did not find any Adamantine. I decided to leave this fortress, as it accomplished what I set out to do, creating a self sustaining fortress far underground.

Next up: don't know yet, I think of setting out to some desolate location with lots of enemies.

There are tools you can use (Prospector) to get a better idea of what kind of features you'll find in an area when you're scouting for a location to settle.

Nosferatu wrote:

Hmm couldn't you build a series of spirals with waterwheels and pumps to power the whole thing?

Yes, which is what I meant by water-wheel generator. If we're talking about the same thing, that is.

More info here:
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/ind...

See "stacked pumps" #2.

This entry has info on a perpetual motion machine:
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/ind...

About your tower, the amount of allocated Z-levels in a game is +15 above the highest solid ground, and -15 below the lowest ground on the map. What this means for a perfectly flat map is you have 31 levels, 30 of which can be build on since the very top level is unusable. In order to get more levels you need to find a map with the biggest difference between high and low terrain that you can. The maximum amount of buildable levels I was able to find this way was 96.

However this is usually not possible since such big cliffs and big maps tend to bog down computers and make such maps untenable. I suggested ways of dealing with this to the developer a couple of times, hopefully he can make the amount of levels adjustable.

In the meantime, if you guys want to see what advanced statue-fortress building is like you can come see how I make mine. It is possible to make truly tall structures but this requires a lot of groundwork.
http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=32
The relevant stuff starts on page 7 of the one and only Dwarf fortress thread present. The statue is a model of a starship from the webcomic the forum belongs to.

* fixed bug causing dwarves and others to sleep forever
* stopped world gen animals from starting as drunks

I'm going to give him till tomorrow's release to sort out a few more bugs before I start another fort.

I forget how much I love this game until a new release comes out and I start all over.

Starting all over is most of the fun for me. It's when I am sitting on stockpiles of everything and goblin hordes are fleeing at the first sight of my defenses that I get bored and miss the good ol' days of hacking a home out of the rock using nothing but a copper pick and one miner who is complaining that there isn't enough beer.

Yeah but I'll need a grand vision again before I decide to start another game.

Agreed, after finishing a few successful fortresses it gets harder to enjoy making a new one. The start of one is always fun, but you need a bigger picture to keep it fun. My last mission was to get my whole fortress on the lowest level of the world, I succeeded, after that, the fun stopped.

What I miss the most is the very hard first winter. In previous version it was a race against the clock to get things running before that first winter set in. And then, with the right combination of food and drink you could survive it unscratched. Also, the lack of harvesting in the winter was a good time to get some other jobs going, like cleaning the fortress and stuff.

Now, with easier farming, and even winter farming, it's hardly a challenge to get your fortress going. For the rest it's still very cool.

I played some adventures, well 16, where 14 of them have died, and I think 8 of them by the hands of the same Cyclops. Too bad the Cyclops disappeared somehow, he does have a great track record in legends now.

Than

Tamren wrote:

About your tower, the amount of allocated Z-levels in a game is +15 above the highest solid ground, and -15 below the lowest ground on the map. What this means for a perfectly flat map is you have 31 levels, 30 of which can be build on since the very top level is unusable. In order to get more levels you need to find a map with the biggest difference between high and low terrain that you can. The maximum amount of buildable levels I was able to find this way was 96.

However this is usually not possible since such big cliffs and big maps tend to bog down computers and make such maps untenable. I suggested ways of dealing with this to the developer a couple of times, hopefully he can make the amount of levels adjustable.

In the meantime, if you guys want to see what advanced statue-fortress building is like you can come see how I make mine. It is possible to make truly tall structures but this requires a lot of groundwork.
http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=32
The relevant stuff starts on page 7 of the one and only Dwarf fortress thread present. The statue is a model of a starship from the webcomic the forum belongs to.

Thanks for the tips Tamren, your spaceship project goes beyond the scope of what I thought was possible to do with DF...I mean, do you ever go to sleep pal? I would like to see how are your dwarves living in that fortress, how many of them are there, etc. Awesome job on the planning as well, kudos for it coming together so well.

There's a new version of DF out that finally lets you resize the viewport. Players are no longer restricted to the 80 column by 25 row screen.

This one addition makes the game playable for me.

Every new release = for me a new 30 hours spent starting a new fortress

Been waiting for the bug to bite me again.

I had a nibble from the adventure mode bug a couple of days ago. Went around killing everything I could find on the southern half of the continent - cyclops, titans, giants, you name it. My dwarven axeman became a badass, so returned him to his home civilization's capital and retired him.

But I haven't felt the need to start a fortress yet. Maybe I'll stop reading the dev_log every day to build up some excitement.

I caught the DF bug again recently, and I've constructed my most entertaining siege defense to date. When I yank the drawbridges up, there's only a single entrance remaining to my subterranean lair. Guarding that entrance is a circular tower which has staircases on opposing sides. One staircase leads to the path to my base, and the other leads to a single-space path to the great outdoors. The tower is as high as I can make it, something like 15 tiles up, and it's about 12 tiles in diameter.

All besieging forces must funnel into the path to the tower, trudge single-file up the great stairway, and then engage The One in the arena atop the tower. The One is a champion macedwarf with perfect gear who has been training since the dawn of time, who crushes the living sh*t out of everyone that comes to the top and blasts their mangled bodies off the edge of the platform to fall screaming to the ground below. To date, none have overcome The One, and watching him hurl his hapless foes from the tower heights just never gets old. There's something immensely satisfying about knockback in this game, and knockback from 15 stories up is even more entertaining.

That. Is. Awesome!

Are there any special accommodations for The One on the top of the tower? How do you make sure he stays put?

So, I'm trying REALLY hard to get into the *new* way of doing things (yes things changed awhile ago but its still new to me). I really liked the old way of playing the fortress. Started at a wall, you knew what was coming in a sense and you always had pretty much every mineral along w/ lava, water, etc. I think its really cool being able to go to a z axis... but I like the old hand held sandbox I guess.

Gonna keep trying to like it... but I do miss the old game

PAR

LupusUmbrus wrote:

That. Is. Awesome!

Are there any special accommodations for The One on the top of the tower? How do you make sure he stays put?

Normally he's off duty in the barracks, bruising recruits and showing off his godhood. When the siege comes, I just use Squads (x), pick him, and Station (s) him just at the top of the stairway leading back to my base. Then when someone gets up to the top of the opposite stairs, he runs over, whacks their monkey ass off the tower, and then runs back to his station.

par wrote:

So, I'm trying REALLY hard to get into the *new* way of doing things (yes things changed awhile ago but its still new to me). I really liked the old way of playing the fortress. Started at a wall, you knew what was coming in a sense and you always had pretty much every mineral along w/ lava, water, etc. I think its really cool being able to go to a z axis... but I like the old hand held sandbox I guess.

Gonna keep trying to like it... but I do miss the old game

PAR

A huge part of the "work" involved in fortress creation has been front-loaded to the embarkation stage. If you choose poorly, your dwarves won't ever stand a chance, whereas with the old version every fort had more or less the same chance of success. So with the new version, if you choose an area with no lava/river/loam/trees, you'll never have access to it/them later on. Starting location is imperative, and choosing a location with the proper features becomes a kind of art in itself.

Well.. I've read the wiki and as much as I can stand on the interrweb, got any tips you would like to share Montalban? I tried looking for lava on the overhead map when choosing a site but when i do find one its usually in a really nasty place or some place that doesnt have water or... etc etc.

The game is complicated enough... now its almost not fun (at least for me).

PAR

There's a search function incorporated into the latest version, where you can look for a spot with "lava vent" and "river" and "forest", etc., but I haven't had much luck with it. I usually create a world, search for volcanoes (red [color=red]^[/color]) next to rivers, and then check to see how many trees are in the area. If I don't find any within 5 minutes of looking, I create a new world and start the search again.

Survivability really only relies on the presence of loam and trees. But late-game requires the presence of lava. A river is really just to insure that there is loam, and for aesthetic effect. There can be loam without a river, though.

A lot depends on luck and practice, unfortunately. My latest fortress site has all the necessary features, including a chasm, but the undead moledogs are giving me a headache, so I have taken a break.

par wrote:

Well.. I've read the wiki and as much as I can stand on the interrweb, got any tips you would like to share Montalban? I tried looking for lava on the overhead map when choosing a site but when i do find one its usually in a really nasty place or some place that doesnt have water or... etc etc.

The game is complicated enough... now its almost not fun (at least for me).

PAR

One of the best ways to find a quality starting point is to look at recommended seeds/pre-gen worlds, as all of the hard searching has been done for you. Sadly, as version change, old seeds become obsolete. Still, there's people constantly posting new seeds as new versions come out.

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/ind...

Just search for Magma pipe->Yes and Aquifier->No. Then when you find one (if you find one at all, may have to generate a new world a few times), check the biomes to see that your starting block contains an area with soil and some trees.

Note that when you search for the magma pipe, I think it will place your starting block in such a way that the pipe is centered in it. It did for me on the 3 games I tried. So it's okay to shift over a notch or two to get to a juicy biome, you'll just need to do some extra prospecting to find the magma.