Star Wars: The Force Unleashed Catch-All

Ok - this game was completely off my radar and now it's completely ON it. I'm not even a big Star Wars fan, and I just thought the combat and powers in this game were fantastic. This is the kind of action that Too Human should have had. I won't say "Day One" given this fall's lineup, but it's a must play.

Am I the only one who was disappointed with the demo?

I mean, MORE QTEs? Really?

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

nsmike wrote:

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

I can't imagine how someone could say that as if it's as a bad thing.

0kelvin wrote:
nsmike wrote:

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

I can't imagine how someone could say that as if it's as a bad thing.

Like I said, "Sith of War". And I personally am with nsmike. The demo turned me away from the game. I didn't want to play "Sith of War".

0kelvin wrote:
nsmike wrote:

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

I can't imagine how someone could say that as if it's as a bad thing.

I agree with this if anything this description makes this more awesome. On a side note Kratos would get demolished by midiclorians.

On QTE's. No game had a more boring gambit of them then the dancing and sword fighting in Sid Mier's Pirates! I can handle any button mashing as long as I am not bored to death. Oh yeah and I get to split things in half.

It certainly looks gorgeous, and there's a definite thrill in levitating a stormtrooper and impaling him with a saber, but I don't know... I didn't feel like I was doing much. And the QTE at the end was like a rancid cherry on top of what had been an ok sundae. The cutscene compendium at the end actually got me a bit more hyped than the actual game. I long for Star Wars stories that take the universe halfway seriously, and games have been in a position to do that (KOTOR, Republic Commando) in a way that Lucas clearly isn't interested in anymore.

I also want the timed-block mechanic back from Jedi Power Battles that will redirect blaster fire at enemies when done correctly.

More than anything the visuals just get me excited for a new Battlefront. When's THAT coming?

0kelvin wrote:
nsmike wrote:

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

I can't imagine how someone could say that as if it's as a bad thing.

It just doesn't seem like the new and exciting game they were promising, is all.

Also, this is apparently old news, but the secret apprentice is Crashdown.

I was looking for a picture of the apprentice's face to compare to this actor because I thought, "Holy frak, that looks just like Crashdown!" when I started playing, and then stumbled across that article.

Am I the only one who was disappointed with the demo?

Did you just skip the previous pages in the thread? It wasn't all Sanjuro's unholy return, y'know.

buzzvang wrote:
Am I the only one who was disappointed with the demo?

Did you just skip the previous pages in the thread? It wasn't all Sanjuro's unholy return, y'know. ;)

Yeah, I skimmed. Sue me.

QTE = turn off, but on the other hand, picking up a stormtrooper, whirling him around and then him shaking his head, coming back to his senses and shooting me with his pistol while I'm still holding him is a nice 'realism' turn on, for me at least.

nsmike wrote:
buzzvang wrote:
Am I the only one who was disappointed with the demo?

Did you just skip the previous pages in the thread? It wasn't all Sanjuro's unholy return, y'know. ;)

Yeah, I skimmed. Sue me.

No need. Admission is enough

0kelvin wrote:
nsmike wrote:

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

I can't imagine how someone could say that as if it's as a bad thing.

Because spinning blade jumping puzzles don't become more fun when they're spinning lightsaber blades?

Does anyone know whether the full game will be infested with the sort of gratuitous plaforming that cropped up in God of War?

Because spinning blade jumping puzzles don't become more fun when they're spinning lightsaber blades?

Especially so when dismemberment is not involved. Boo.

Not to fan the flames here, but what other suggestions would people have to replace the quick time events?

My understanding of QTE was they were used in order for specific character animations to be implemented that were not part of the regular control scheme, and unique to the situation encountered. Would the alternative to finishing off the AT-ST at the end of the demo be to simply wail on the thing with your lightsaber's basic attack and combos until it falls down and goes boom? Or would a different take on it be to add a combo into the moves arsenal that allows you to eviscerate AT-ST walkers, but only when they are at 25% health. Maybe instead, you could go the Ninja Gaiden 2 route where some bosses could be finished off with specific animation sequences with the touch of a button if enough health was depleted, and you caught them while they were immobilized.

While I do not have much experience with QTE games (outside of the God of War series, and Viking), I have never really had a problem with them. When they pop up, it usually means I am going to see something absolutely balls to the wall, and finish off the enemy with something unique, instead of just wailing away on them with my sword.

0kelvin wrote:
nsmike wrote:

I can't help but having felt like I played a Star Wars-skinned God of War mod with force powers.

I can't imagine how someone could say that as if it's as a bad thing.

As someone who has never played God of War, I'm in the camp that's excited about this game, and will probably think it more innovative than it really is. I kinda like it that way...

I agree with Dr. J about the QTEs, and also with nsmike about the PG-13 rating of the game... (which is a Lucas requirement I'm sure).

How truly awesome would a M rated lightsaber game be?

Except that QTEs are nothing more than a cinematic. They could do the same thing by, say, having a damage threshold, and then when it is reached, watch the character do their thing without pointless button mashing that I could end up screwing up. QTEs are not a fun challenge, when they are a challenge. It's false interactivity. My actions aren't telling the character, "Do this now." It's just saying, "you pushed the right button, so we'll keep playing the movie."

I'm not sure of an easy way to accomplish a similar effect, but one way would be not to half-ass a game, and build in enough dynamics that the player could discover a combo that would effectively be as awesome as a QTE, but still have the player actually accomplish it on their own, through the available controls.

Ok some of you will not agree with me but I found the actual design of the demo to be insipid and uninspired.

Here's why

You have all those great powers, yet, all you do is throw around people and make stuff 'splode. All the great gameplay ideas are never actually implemented to serve the game's design.

You open the door with the force push. Ok, cool animation, but how different is it than simply pressing 'B to open' ?

You have one small bossfight of sort and no matter what you do, you won't kill it. You have to run close to it to trigger some sort of time event minigame. How difficult was it to implement ways in using the force to defeat it?

The game is about finding your way around, going from A to B and the force powers you have honestly have little to do with your succeeding of the mission. you could have had a lightsaber only, or a blaster, but they've thrown in some stormtrooper torture in to spice things up a bit.

I know this opinion sounds jaded, as if I'm disinterested in gaming now but after playing Braid (which I thought was a tremendous step forward in game design and implementation of features serving the actual game rather than just being cool tricks) I read a bunch of papers, listened to a bunch of conferences and came away with the idea that it's true that too many games play us for suckers.

Remember the ''seconds to crate'' theory from Old Man Murray? (google it)

I agree with most of what you're saying interstate, but this discussion is drawing dangerously close to that old debate of "does everything have to be new and innovative?"

It is frustrating though to see a game come so close to obvious ideas that would change the gameplay in ways we've not seen before. How difficult would it have been to just get there?

nsmike wrote:

(...) but this discussion is drawing dangerously close to that old debate of "does everything have to be new and innovative?"

My point is not that everything should be 'new and innovative', but rather that if you bring me a game with some of the most amazing physics and abilities out there, a game with tremendous potential, you better make some good use of it.

I'll probably still get the game because I did have fun with it despite all the flaws I just mentionned and I'm basically really curious to see if the game ever evolves into more than what the demo has shown us. I'll be really disapointed if it never does though because the potential certainly was there.

TheWalt wrote:

I agree with Dr. J about the QTEs, and also with nsmike about the PG-13 rating of the game... (which is a Lucas requirement I'm sure).

How truly awesome would a M rated lightsaber game be?

Real time cauterization engine! Cut a guy too quick and he'll still spurt arterial blood!

This isn't a lightsaber game, if you think about it. In the JK series, the lightsaber was the primary weapon and Force powers were secondary. Now it's the other way around; the Force is your primary weapon and your lightsaber is secondary to it. In my last playthrough, I pretty much only used the Force.

Rat Boy wrote:

This isn't a lightsaber game, if you think about it. In the JK series, the lightsaber was the primary weapon and Force powers were secondary. Now it's the other way around; the Force is your primary weapon and your lightsaber is secondary to it. In my last playthrough, I pretty much only used the Force.

Really? I found the force interface REALLY clunky. It was hard to get a handle on exactly where I was targeting. A reticule in the middle of the screen would've been a huge help. I did a lot of lightsabering. I kept missing with the force powers.

nsmike wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

This isn't a lightsaber game, if you think about it. In the JK series, the lightsaber was the primary weapon and Force powers were secondary. Now it's the other way around; the Force is your primary weapon and your lightsaber is secondary to it. In my last playthrough, I pretty much only used the Force.

Really? I found the force interface REALLY clunky. It was hard to get a handle on exactly where I was targeting. A reticule in the middle of the screen would've been a huge help. I did a lot of lightsabering. I kept missing with the force powers.

I'm with Rat Boy, I spent the whole demo using my force powers. I only used my saber a few times when I ran out of Midichlorian juice. Of course, I wasn't trying to pick up specific stuff too much, I would just grab a crate/console/droid/stormtrooper etc, charge it up with force lightning and whip it at the nearest group of enemies. I did make use of the force lightning charged saber combo a few times but I mostly enjoyed myself with this unleashed force the kids have all been talking about.

nsmike wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

This isn't a lightsaber game, if you think about it. In the JK series, the lightsaber was the primary weapon and Force powers were secondary. Now it's the other way around; the Force is your primary weapon and your lightsaber is secondary to it. In my last playthrough, I pretty much only used the Force.

Really? I found the force interface REALLY clunky. It was hard to get a handle on exactly where I was targeting. A reticule in the middle of the screen would've been a huge help. I did a lot of lightsabering. I kept missing with the force powers.

I never said it was easy.

Dr._J wrote:

Not to fan the flames here, but what other suggestions would people have to replace the quick time events?

Remove the troopers. Take away the walker's area of effect stomp and the ability to fire downwards too steeply with its guns, and make the force push/lightning unbalance it for longer to give the player longer time to take stock. This puts the player at danger when too close or too far away, but leaves a safety radius to play in. Keep sending TIE fighters on periodic strafing runs.

Solution: the player diverts one of the TIE fighters into the walker.

It's just as exciting, it uses the main mechanic of the game, and the safety radius keeps the player from slashing away at the walker when it's not going to have any effect anyway.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:
Dr._J wrote:

Not to fan the flames here, but what other suggestions would people have to replace the quick time events?

Remove the troopers. Take away the walker's area of effect stomp and the ability to fire downwards too steeply with its guns, and make the force push/lightning unbalance it for longer to give the player longer time to take stock. This puts the player at danger when too close or too far away, but leaves a safety radius to play in. Keep sending TIE fighters on periodic strafing runs.

Solution: the player diverts one of the TIE fighters into the walker.

It's just as exciting, it uses the main mechanic of the game, and the safety radius keeps the player from slashing away at the walker when it's not going to have any effect anyway.

You should also be able to jump on top of the AT-ST, and play 'can-opener' with your lightsaber.

LobsterMobster wrote:
TheWalt wrote:

I agree with Dr. J about the QTEs, and also with nsmike about the PG-13 rating of the game... (which is a Lucas requirement I'm sure).

How truly awesome would a M rated lightsaber game be?

Real time cauterization engine! Cut a guy too quick and he'll still spurt arterial blood!

Arterial blood would be cool, and I'm even okay with instant cauterization. But slashing a guy with a lightsaber 4-6 times and him still being in one piece, let alone sometimes still being alive? C'mon Lucas people! Let we, the players, spill some intestines like the taun-taun in Ep. V!!

I don't really feel comfortable bashing the QTE's until I see just how present they actually are in the game. Assuming the same ratio in the demo as the game, there are nowhere NEAR as many in FU as in GOW. Also, the combat does conjur GoW, but in a good way - and with better abilities. There is a reason GoW is such a successful action game. Add limited RPG elements and you've got an interesting game.
And I'll still maintain the combat is much more fun than in Too Human, at least Demo vs. Demo.

On the QTE issue, I don't mind the offensive "Hit this sequence of buttons to finish the boss" QTEs. It's the defensive "Hit this sequence of buttons or die!" sequences I dislike.