Warhammer Online Impression -- NDA Lifting.

Alright, some of you wanted to know impressions and I know of quite a few gentlemen and women around here that have been in for some time. I'm hoping that they can also chime in with their thoughts concerning the game so that those sitting on the fence can weight the pros and cons of what's being delivered.

The game itself basically plays out as if it were the offspring of DAoC and WoW, which is certainly not surprising considering the company involved and the source material. If you've been following this title for some time, I'm sure you've heard that they've cut some classes from the release (and possibly for good) while at the same time, like every MMO, don't quite deliver on every promise made. (For those that remember the whole "Bears" speech in one of the early newsletters, this is one of those shortfalls). Nitpicking aside, lets get to the guts:

1. Graphics: Think WoW and think no further. What this does for the game is allow large PvP battles to work (More about that below); however, on the flipside, its hard to shake the feeling that this game at times almost feels like some WoW expansion, which while it isn't necessarily a terrible thing, it doesn't necessarily push many technological envelopes.

2. Characters: Here is my biggest gripe and one I've incessantly needled Mythic about on their beta boards. In the attempt to make everything equal, for every Order race, there is a corresponding Chaos race that is exactly the same. Have you played a Bright Wizard, well, then you've also played the Sorcerer. The only thing different about them are the spell/melee graphics and the names of the spells. Obviously, this was done with the idea of PvP in mind. Its awfully hard for people to whine about nerfs when their opposing forces are nothing more than their evil twin army come to life.
Beyond that, the speccing system they've installed is also made for those who love WoW. The trick is, you get a number of abilities and talents that you can customize into different slots on hotbars that you can use for different scenarios your character might get into, including PvE, Raiding, PvP, and group PvPing. This is extremely helpful and a million miles better than where they started when they conceived this.

3. PvE: This is your run of the mill stuff. Grind and Quest, Quest and Grind. Some nice things that you'll immediately enjoy about WAR really boil down to two things here. The first are the group quests you can do with others. These are quite fun at low levels where the population of the server is heavily represented. Its fun to jump into the quest wherever they are (they can be on step 3 of 5 and you can join to finish the last half) and play along. When you finish up the group quest, it posts little stats about how everyone did and who helped the most and rolls loot in an NBA-lottery style way for those that finished the quest. If you did very well in the group quest and were an important cog, your chances for getting the best loot is fairly high (and your chance of getting any loot is very good). If you didn't do very much and sat there soaking up xp, you'll likely get passed by when the loot comes. The other nice thing about this is that the group quest loot comes in baggies that are like little presents you can open up and the loot is specific for your character. No more finishing a fight and looting only to find out that you can't even use what was dropped.
The second thing most people will enjoy, though they may not notice it at first is the journal. The journal is basically your own little storybook that details what you've done, what you've seen, and where you've been. To be honest, I haven't played with it recently because the focus hasn't been so much on PvE and instead on PvP, so I don't know if there are any updates to it, but I do know that Mythic wants to make it a big deal. Once you realize its there, you'll find yourself leafing through it and spending a silly amount of time playing around in it. Depending on what you've done, you can change your title above your name (Think EQII-style) and do a few other neat things with it as well.

4. PvP: Really, here's the meat. I'll let you in on a secret, Siege PvP works and works well the two times I've been in it. Framerates were fine, there was very little stuttering and it was an exciting and enjoyable experience. My computers are decent dual-core, middle-of-the-line systems with an 8800GTS card at work and an ATIx1950 at home and it ran fine on both machines. About the siege. Do you remember DAoC? Think of seeing a ton of people with siege engines surrounding a castle with players running along the ramparts like ants. While half the time its nothing more than an semi-controlled zergfest, it does get the heart pumping and is a hell of a lot of fun.
The rest of the PvP? Yawn. You'll find along the borders of the Order/Chaos divide that one side always controls the 'neutral' areas and camps the entrance to the others' side while the weaker side shimmies back and forth across their 'safety' line. It reminds me of a middle school dance where you've got a couple of people actively fighting it out on the fringes while everyone else stands along the wall, too scared to do much else. This game plays out like most others of this genre: each player has his role and failure to fill that role = death. Simple and not very difficult. At one point, tanks freaking ruled and there was nothing worse than seeing an Orc Choppa bearing down on you, but with recent releases, they've been almost worthless which in my opinion (and I've given it) sucks.
You can level and gather elite loot through PvPing. Very early in beta, I tried levelling the PvP way and I made it from level 3-7 exclusively through PvP. Unless server populations are super heavy, I don't know that I'd recommend that. There are PvP rewards in place and they do certainly make nice carrots for getting the PvEers of the world a bit more involved in things and out of their respective sandboxes some. To be honest, this isn't really some game where you grind to max level and then go out and fight others. Mythic has set up tiers of play for PvPers to play in which mostly ensures you're not going to get ganked by someone 20 levels higher than you. Most people will want to, once they really discover the PvP zones, certainly get their toes wet testing the waters some and this generally starts to happen (because the quests push you toward them) around 7th-10th level. The only thing I don't much like about this PvP system is that it is heavily level-based. While one level difference doesn't make too huge a difference, anything more than that and you're out of your weight-class. The only good news here is that you're rarely ever alone when you're PvPing, which certainly helps in determining the winner of any given fight.

Can you talk about the combat system?

Early reports read pretty dismal and it is 11111111151111111 ad nasuem.

Is that accurate?

I won't lie, I am gaining a grudging interest in this game -- not yet enough to tear me from WoW but more than AoC, which still looks like a "WoW plus boobs" game.

WiredAsylum wrote:

Can you talk about the combat system?

Early reports read pretty dismal and it is 11111111151111111 ad nasuem.

Is that accurate?

I have played a number of classes, and I have never had a combat go like that. But in all honesty, I never had a combat go like that in WoW either (except for when raiding).

That is good.
I do not hate the wow combat system, I just think we have seen there can be more to it, than what is getting put out now a days.

I just want somthing to make me think, and not just hit a macro that will do everything for me. i.e. The hunter macro that casts mark starts auto attack sends pet etc.

Seth wrote:

I won't lie, I am gaining a grudging interest in this game -- not yet enough to tear me from WoW but more than AoC, which still looks like a "WoW plus boobs" game.

From what I've gathered WAR is closer to WoW than AoC. Which, isn't a bad thing, considering the mess that AoC is now. So its more a broken mess thats different from WoW with boobs.

Blacksheep's observations are interesting. And the thing about tanks once being awesome and now much less so remind me of the end of the WoW beta. I'd like to hear more. My ear's are perked, but this dog is still lying down.

Seth wrote:

I won't lie, I am gaining a grudging interest in this game -- not yet enough to tear me from WoW but more than AoC, which still looks like a "WoW plus boobs" game.

I'm not sure that's how I'd characterize AoC at all.

WiredAsylum wrote:

Can you talk about the combat system?
Early reports read pretty dismal and it is 11111111151111111 ad nasuem.
Is that accurate?

If you're looking for something other than Simon Says Combat, then you're in the wrong spot. Its not exactly 111115, but its isn't any different from WoW or DAoC. You generally have a set means of dealing with a combat and a set strategey. Rarely will that change from combat to combat unless you've levelled and added something new to your repetoire.

BlackSheep wrote:

This is your run of the mill stuff.

This is my opinion of the whole game. It's not terrible, and I'm not going to rant against it as I'm sure there will be people that find a lot to like in WAR, but it just did nothing for me. And yes I found the combat to be the worst part of the game, just boring. I think WoW showed that you can make your standard MMORPG autoattack combat fun and interesting, but in my opinion WAR just feels like a step back in time instead of any kind of evolution, or even matching the standard WoW set.

Interesting part on the classes. Sucks theres no diversity but at the same time thats the price of balancing PvP easier.

even racial's in WoW were unbalancing.

My biggest complaint about the combat was the sluggishness. You click on a spell/skill and it was like .25-.5 second delay from when it actually happened. Well this past weekend they actually patched in a fix for this. So it feels as smooth as WoW. Makes me more upset that we wont have the Choppa available to us. Character combat customization can be varied between the same classes. You have more than your 3 tier of skills to choose from and the level 4 morale spells are massive!

My next worry is scale. The servers have seem to be more or less even between order/destruction, but not everyone plays RVR. So when playing RVR it was just whichever side had the most active would be able to win. When on the loosing side it's frustrating getting rolled over and over.

Another complaint i have in RvR is the viability of melee classes. The range classes rule the day. If you're melee you're fighting on the edges picking off stragglers. The tank classes can wade into the front lines easier, but you're not going to make much more headway. In PvE (after the patch) melee classes are fun and very useful, but it looks like Bright Wizards rule the day in RvR.

Rest of the game is some in depth lore of the GW fantasy world. While some is watered down it's impressive just the amount of 'stuff' they have in there.

For someone who hasn't been into MMO's for a long time (since everquest 1 basically), and looking to play a MMO in the next few months, would you recommend this game over the competition? It looks like the big 3's are WoW, AoC, and now WAR, and there's not much else to look forward to.

Kinda sad on the simplicity of the RvR stuff. I was really hoping that they were going to be creative. Honestly there must be a way to introduce NPC's into the equation to start balancing things like Ranged vs Melee and even slight population imbalances. For a quick example if there were tauntable mobs in PvP that had to be dealt with you instantly have a role for PvE melee classes to play in PvP.

jowner wrote:

Kinda sad on the simplicity of the RvR stuff. I was really hoping that they were going to be creative. Honestly there must be a way to introduce NPC's into the equation to start balancing things like Ranged vs Melee and even slight population imbalances. For a quick example if there were tauntable mobs in PvP that had to be dealt with you instantly have a role for PvE melee classes to play in PvP.

This might be really pushing the NDA some, but a lot of us requested that Taunt work in PvP in a similar way that it does in PvE. Once a fighter taunts you, it automatically auto-targets the taunter. I think that EQII does something like this?

Instead, they've changed it to when a fighter taunts, if the tauntee (for lack of a better word) does not attack the fighter, then the fighter gets a bonus to his damage vs. that person. Unfortunately, keeping a fighter close enough to the fight causes all kinds of survivability issues.

they've changed it to when a fighter taunts, if the tauntee (for lack of a better word) does not attack the fighter, then the fighter gets a bonus to his damage vs. that person.

Not to derail, but that would be a fantastic fix for WoW pvp too.

Interesting atleast that shows that they are aware of the situation. In all honesty though I'm still looking for more of a hybrid of PvP instead of armies smashing together head on.

Still optimistic this is something they can build on down the line. This game has been in the works for so long now I think its just important for them to get a playable game out the door and start generating some profit to justify more content. From the information you have given it does sound like this game can carve a decent niche for itself though and then fight for its market share down the line.

django wrote:

For someone who hasn't been into MMO's for a long time (since everquest 1 basically), and looking to play a MMO in the next few months, would you recommend this game over the competition? It looks like the big 3's are WoW, AoC, and now WAR, and there's not much else to look forward to.

I would say Warcraft, django. It is the king right now. Even when Warhammer releases, it is an MMO going through release. There will be plenty of bugs, likely server stability problems, etc.... WoW has been out a while, is very stable, has tons of community built up around it, it is a good spot for someone to get back into MMOs. Sure you could wait for Warhammer, but you will likely need more patience to deal with bugs and stability problems than you would need to get into WoW. I can't speak to AoC too much, but I keep hearing it is sliding downhill since release, not going uphill like it should be.

I second gnomes comments, but with personal experience. Stay away from AoC. It's pretty much been abandoned for now by GWJ. Funcom just keeps breaking it more and more. I'd say wait a few weeks to see how this launch is, but I think WoW might be your best bet.

I been in beta about a year and here are some of my thoughts. I never really played the higher levels so keep that in mind

1. Combat is slow. Lord of the Rings, which I still play, is faster and smoother then WAR. Vanguard which I am currently playing too has better pacing. Of all the things AoC has done not so well combat is where they shine and makes WAR feel really flat. I really think if I play this game I have to be a caster class as the melee is too slow and static.

While I never played much in the higher levels in all my time in the game combat is very static. Like traditional MMOs you stand still while auto-attacking mashing a special skill/spell here and there.

In PvE for me I currently do most fights by clicking the following sequences 1,2,3,3. In a PQ I fight this way 1,tab,1,tab,1....... for most part. In RvR there is more variance.

2. Public Quests. I love them and hate them. Love the scripting and the fights but......... Other then the starting area each 'zone' has multiple PQ. What tends to happen is people run into the "1st" PQ of a zone and then do that one till they maxed influence. This tends to make the other PQ less done and less populated because once you maxed influence there is little reason to do them (all the PQ of a an area are on same influence). If there are not enough people trying to do the quest well you will fail and while you can still earn influence slowly like this it is a pain. Also unless you are certain classes getting a lot of influence fast can be hard unless you are in a group or warband (really the best thing to do in a PQ).

Maybe it is just how I play but I also find since you have an influence bar and you see it fill up and can see the rewards you will get once it is maxed people just 'grind' out the influence at the first PQ and do not see all the other ones.

Also the loot at the end is not so easy to get. As a mage class type I find it very easy to be one of the main contributors even being number 1 often. This is easy to do with my 1,tab,1,tab method and if I am on my Magus even easier when I have my pet on aggro too. Thing is the +300 to the roll is nice but when there are a lot of people just be sheer chance you will a lot of times find yourself finishing 4th or higher in the roll and that means no additional loot.

3. Loot is an interesting topic. Something to keep in mind there are not a lot of slots on your character for t raditional loot spots. For example chest,legs,arms are all 1 slot. Meaning you get a piece of armor that has graphics for all 3. Is nice because you basically always match/look ok but bad if you are loot focused more as there is less to collect. There are trophies to collect though and maybe that can make up for it in the long run.

4. Graphics. First if you do not like the Warhammer table tob art work you are certainly not going to like the graphics as it obviously is the source material. That said the graphics themselves are not bad. Nothing great but when doing RvR and PQ having the graphics the way they are pays off. Some races and classes seem to have a lot more 'cool' factor and while it is a matter of taste the Choosen and Magus for example look a lot cooler to me then order tanks and the Engineer.

5. Grouping. This is kind of neat what they did here and I like how it works in PQ. You click on the group button under your portrait and a list of groups in the area shows up with what they are doing (PvE,RvR,PQ), how far away they are in time from you, and the size. Just click the join button next to the group and bam you are in. This works really well for PQ not sure how it will work out for other things.

6. RvR. I will be upfront and say I not done any seiges. What I can tell you though is at level 1 you can start to RvR. The easiest way is on your mini map you just click the RvR que button and now you are in a que for a scenario. Each scenario is level based so you will not be too out classed and if you are below a certain level you will be artifically raised in stats level so you can to something other then die in 1 second.

Which gets me to the fact that nobody dies in 1 seond which I think is good. There is nobody jumping out of stealth and 1 shotting you which makes it a lot more fun to be in as nobody likes to be 1 shotted.

The scenarios themselves are basically like WAR mini-games. Really nothing new here and even in the world RvR areas for low levels if is like a mini-game more or less with certain areas to capture that you all fight over.

There are repeatable quests for the RvR games such as do this mini-game, kill 5 players, and so on that will earn you xp. You also earn renown as you RvR which will get you additional skills.

7. Tome of Knowledge. I like what they are trying to do here but not so sure how much it will matter in the end. The basically have taken things like Lord of the Rings deeds, standard quest tracker, and a few other things and placed it in a single sort of book interface. This to me is a wait and see on t he Tome of Knowledge on if it really adds to the game or not.

8. Adventuring. Like Lord of the Rings they added something like deeds in the game. Basically when you do or find certain things, discover something for the first time for your character, you get some xp usually and maybe a title or unlock the ability to get a title (like loot 100 items).

9. Class/Race diversity. Not going into this since really b een covered but yes each side is basically the evil twin of the other. War Priest = Disciple of Kaine, Engineer = Magus, and so on.

What this all boils dow to for me is that WAR seems like a solid game that is really nothing more the DAoC 2 set in the Warhammer universe. These are good things but is it enough to make it successful?

Well that is it for now on my quick thoughts about the game.

When did you last play because a lot of that just isn't the case anymore and hasn't been past couple months.

Thottbot, but for WAR

ranalin wrote:

When did you last play because a lot of that just isn't the case anymore and hasn't been past couple months.

Last night and almost ever night in last couple weeks.

Is there something specific you are questioning about what I said? I do not mind elaborating on a specific expereince I had.

maladen wrote:
ranalin wrote:

When did you last play because a lot of that just isn't the case anymore and hasn't been past couple months.

Last night and almost ever night in last couple weeks.

Is there something specific you are questioning about what I said? I do not mind elaborating on a specific expereince I had.

The combat is better after the patch this last weekend and there's more armor spots than there is in WoW. You can even get trophy pieces to hang from your shoulder/belt and the like.

Tkyl wrote:

Thottbot, but for WAR

this looks good! Curse and modders have been working with these guys for awhile now. Should be some very nice mods out there soon as well.

Originally posted in the other thread here:

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/3...
____________

So, the NDA is finally lifted. With the benefit of hindsight, I think Warhammer is shaping up as the better PvP oriented MMO compared to AoC. Or at least I haven't played enough to be bitterly disappointed yet.

My impressions are based on playing for about three hours, playing two characters to L4/5. (Note that I also think AoC is pretty good, if unpolished.) Here's why:

- The game runs well, today. By comparison, AoC required a beast of a machine to run well, and it still took tweaking to get acceptable performance.

- The UI is refined, well organized and pleasant to look at/use. By comparison AoC's UI was admittedly a bit clunky. I'd compare the interface to WoW with X-Perl installed, and some other mods installed, but without the inevitable bugginess of user mods. Yes, I'm basically saying I think Warhammer's interface is better than WoW's default interface.

- The PvP is integrated into the PvE game and so far is fun. By the time I hit L3/4, I was finding my first "scenarios", which are basically like the Arathi Basin battlegrounds in WoW (basically a capture and hold map). But, there were some subtle differences. During the scenario my character was raised to L8 (the max seemed to be L10 in that instance of the scenario) so unlike WoW BGs, you don't have to be at or near the level cap for the scenario to contribute.

But wait, there's more. Once I "discovered" the scenario (by locating the NPC), I could join the queue from a distance, while doing PvE quests. No hanging out in a remote capital city waiting for a queue. In addition, I received experience just for completing the BG. (Seemed to be comparable in amount to doing a quest.) And what's more, the scenario had a ten minute timer. (No interminably long turtling sessions.)

So, the net is that, in any given hour, you could sign up for a PvP scenario while doing the PvE thing, do a ten minute session, and feel like you had fun earning some XP (rather than having your time completely wasted by griefers and twinks). And it's convenient.

- Public quests are a great new way to do "group quests". You "discover" public quests and "just do them". The instructions pop up on your screen. You follow the directions, no need to spam the LFG channel. Just jump in with the rest of the folks and have fun.

For example, I found a public quest in the Chaos area with three stages. Stage 1 - kill 25 guards. Stage 2 - gather 25 or so tombstones. Stage 3 - kill an elite demon. At the end, everyone automatically rolls on loot. The quest resets a few minutes after completion.

So, to give you all an example of how all the above plays out. In one hour session, I completed maybe 5-6 normal PvE quests, a public quest (twice) and did a ten minute scenario. All without ever looking for a group. I just got in the game and started doing things. A variety of things. Some PvP, some PvE. It was nice.

Having a guild on top of that will be an added benefit.

- Next - I like the fact that the level cap is only 40. I hope it stays that way, and I hope it means getting to L40 will be relatively quick. The classes seem relatively one dimensional, meaning that unlike WoW, they seem to have only one talent "tree". But, I think that's probably a good thing. Rather than spending a ton of time on one main, I'd prefer to be able to experiment and maybe play two significant alts with different playstyles.

Mind you, I haven't played past L5 so take my comments about "one dimensional" with a grain of salt. And, since I played healer/support classes, note that they can solo PvE content just fine. (At least so far.)

- The graphics style looks nice and animations are fluid. AoC was pretty, but mainly when you were standing still. The animations were a bit jittery/awkward and the way textures upgrade as objects come into view took away from the feel of the game. The graphics in Warhammer are somewhat similar to WoW, but they feel less exaggerated/cartoony to me. More like a graphic novel I guess. (Hard to put my finger on it.)

- I've read that Warhammer lacks an auction house. I also don't recall seeing a mailbox. Someone else with more play time might comment on this.

- The one thing Warhammer could use is AoC's combat system, or at least a combat system that's a little more "active". Warhammer's combat feels more like WoW's.

Overall, from what I have seen, the polish and quality of the game easily matches WoW. Unlike AoC, this is not a game that needs a lot of polish. Maybe if I played further into the game I'd start to see content holes, but I like what I see so far. Personally, I'll be curious to hear the impressions of folks who have been in the beta much longer than me, to get their views on class balance and gameplay in the later stages of the game.

The real question in my mind for Warhammer is whether it can build up enough community. IMHO, WoW's biggest asset is the huge community built up around it. Not everyone likes PvP, though Warhammer makes it a whole lot more fun/convenient to dabble in compared to the way WoW has implemented BGs. And, there's always the question of whether new scenarios and PvE content will be added with enough frequency to keep the game interesting. And, whether Mythic will maintain the level of polish and even buff the game more. Only time will answer those questions, but Warhammer has the making of a great PvP oriented MMO.

My advice for everyone on the fence (and even those leaning against) - Target is selling the preorder pack for $0.99. It does not guarantee a copy of the game, but it includes an open beta code and a $5 coupon to buy the game at Target. Buy that, get into the open beta and play it while you have the chance to do so for only $1. It will be worth it.

BadMojo wrote:

For example, I want to know if a game will not devolve into out-of-game research to optimize my gear and character. Will I be able to easily identify new gear as upgrades for myself, or will it be a math-induced research project to gear up?

I doubt it solves this particular problem. If a game tells you which is better, why on earth would a player opt for the "other" piece of gear. To have the opportunity to make a good strategic choice, you also need the freedom to make a bad choice.

But, I am not that far into the game. Perhaps someone in the later stages can comment.

2. Characters: Here is my biggest gripe and one I've incessantly needled Mythic about on their beta boards. In the attempt to make everything equal, for every Order race, there is a corresponding Chaos race that is exactly the same. Have you played a Bright Wizard, well, then you've also played the Sorcerer. The only thing different about them are the spell/melee graphics and the names of the spells. Obviously, this was done with the idea of PvP in mind. Its awfully hard for people to whine about nerfs when their opposing forces are nothing more than their evil twin army come to life.

That's one thing I've been trying to get across. So many people are like "OH WOW! THE GAME HAS 20 CLASSES" (previously 24) and I kept trying to say, "No! The game has 10 classes (previously 12), half one one side and the exact opposites with different names on the other side."

maladen wrote:
ranalin wrote:
When did you last play because a lot of that just isn't the case anymore and hasn't been past couple months.
Last night and almost ever night in last couple weeks.
Is there something specific you are questioning about what I said? I do not mind elaborating on a specific expereince I had.
The combat is better after the patch this last weekend and there's more armor spots than there is in WoW. You can even get trophy pieces to hang from your shoulder/belt and the like.

I mentioned trophies but there is no leg, wrist, arm, chest slot it is all rolled up into the chest slot which is what I was saying. Is why I said you have less 'traditional' loot spots but have things like trophies.

I did not find combat to really be much different after the patch. Perhaps it is the type of classes we are playing? I been sticking mainly too casters/ranged dps types since after AoC I am not sure I can go back to the 'old style' melee.

Well, I just read on Warhammer Alliance that the NDA dropped at 12:50, so I'll finally man up and give my impressions.

Look and Feel
The characters look just like the tabletop game, especially when you get up to level 31+. I'm a fan of the Warhammer figures, and the Chosen I've been playing looks just right. Clown suits are pretty tough to make, since the loot is specific to your character class, the worst you can do is match different colors, and you can always pay to dye them to the same color. So I have to say the characters look great - this is not a 'realistic' style, but then again the Warhammer / 40K style is not very realistic.

Combat - PvE
Yes Virginia, there are bind keys, action buttons, etc. PvE plays much like PvE in WoW, except you have a few more abilities to choose from. Characters are more customizable than in WoW, so strategies will differ, but ultimately if you're killing 10 mobs for a quest you'll kill them using four to six abilities even once you get to level 32.
The pacing if you're on your own will be kinda slow, you don't usually see spectacular criticals and some monsters can stun or knock you down. Of course if you're in a group it goes much faster.

Combat - PvP
PvP is frenetic and fun. I've found myself using a lot of abilities and so on, and I didn't feel like I was getting killed too easily. I played a tank in pvp, easily the hardest class to enjoy, and I found I had to stack toughness and elemental resists to be able to survive the damn Bright Wizards spamming fireball, but I was pretty useful when I found a shaman willing to heal me. The usual counters are out there - melee dps can kill casters pretty easily, tanks can kill melee dps, ranged dps and casters can kill melee dps and tanks at range.

Character Types
I've been playing tanks and healers. Tanks are a bit more useful in pvp than they are in WoW, but that's not saying much. They can lock down and murder melee dps but it sucks to have to stay back in the lines and wait for them. Healers are wonderful because they aren't just healbots - you're either forced to stay in melee in order to keep healing (War Priest, LoK), or else alternate attacks with heals (Archmage, Shaman). Playing a healer by myself in PvE was about as dull as playing a shadow priest in WoW by yourself, but healing a group in a PQ or RvR while dotting the enemy was really fun and I felt very effective.

Character Customization
I am a big fan of this. Yes there are three mastery trees per class, much like the three talent trees in a certain other game. However, you have to spend points towards either being better in the whole tree or else buying specific talents and powers for use in that tree. For example I tried out an Engineer and decided I would put five points into Tinkering and buy the talent that allowed him to make turrets instantly (which cost an additional point) and a power there I liked, which cost another point. So I spent seven points doing that, while someone else could have put those two points into the tree itself making the basic abilities do more damage.
Expect a lot of theorycrafting on which talents / powers are worth buying, but I think ultimately there will be more variety in class specs than in a game like WoW - there are a lot more powers, talents, stuff like that to equip, buy, etc. I'm not even going into talents here - they're like sets of buffs you can switch out when you're not in combat - but it gets pretty complicated.
If you don't want to mess with this stuff just put points into the trees you like to use and forget about fancy specs.

Loot
The roll distribution they use for PQ loot is going to be ripped off by every MMO going forward. I dropped into a PQ or two, got some lucky rolls, looted some purple (epic?) items, ran off to do something else, and nobody said 'boo' about it. I think the PQ / quest loot is more useful for PvE and the renown gear you buy at keeps is more useful for PvP. We'll have to do a lot of theorycrafting going forward to see if itemization is good or not, but I felt I got new loot at a good rate and I was having fun with it so far.

Grouping
The open grouping system is going to be ripped off by every MMO going forward (repetition intended), it makes too much sense. Being able to quickly scan which PQs have people in them, and run over there to fight in that PQ, is great. There was very, very little chat on public channels about finding a group. I did not have the opportunity to do quests / RvR in a regular group.

Guild Options / Banners / Keep Sieges No info on this right now, really.

Scenarios There's a lot of variety in scenario types - zone control, murderball, and resource collection on various maps. Far from the three maps I played WoW pvp on. I liked the scenarios I got to play, and I bet I would have liked them a lot more if I were in a vent-organized group doing them. It's true some people tend to zerg in these things, but if you have an organized group you can cap points behind them, etc. etc.

Crafting
Not a lot of this to speak of, really. I look forward to being able to make Talismans - and noticed the purple (epic-level I think) renown gear had slots that required talismans. I was having some fun scavenging from the bodies of the dead. Don't feel this is fully implemented, but this is not a main focus of mine.

Capital Cities
There's a lot to do, and lots of quests to do and mobs to kill, and they're large. Plus doing quests there helps level them up, which ... I'm not sure what this does. Would like to see more of this system. Didn't get to attack a capital city yet. Spent most of my time in the Inevitable City (Chaos capital city), this easily is about 120% the size of Stormwind with perhaps 15 quests to do that I found, including public quests.

Mordiceius, a minor quibble - the White Lion doesn't really match the Squig Herder. Anyway, I agree the classes play similarly but a Chaos Chosen doesn't look anything like the High Elf Swordmaster (for example), and auras != balance stuff, so..

I know people who made different hunters in WoW because they liked having different specs, I think people will make different tanks in WAR because they like different looks.

Wow, a game sounding better after the NDA drops? This is new.

KingMob wrote:

Combat - PvP
PvP is frenetic and fun. I've found myself using a lot of abilities and so on, and I didn't feel like I was getting killed too easily. I played a tank in pvp, easily the hardest class to enjoy, and I found I had to stack toughness and elemental resists to be able to survive the damn Bright Wizards spamming fireball, but I was pretty useful when I found a shaman willing to heal me. The usual counters are out there - melee dps can kill casters pretty easily, tanks can kill melee dps, ranged dps and casters can kill melee dps and tanks at range.

I played DAoC for almost four years. The RvR combat was brutally fast, and I strongly suspect they are trying to do that aspect of the PvP better. There was constant adjustment of melee vs ranged, with the pendulum swinging one way, and then the other.

KingMob wrote:

Mordiceius, a minor quibble - the White Lion doesn't really match the Squig Herder. Anyway, I agree the classes play similarly but a Chaos Chosen doesn't look anything like the High Elf Swordmaster (for example), and auras != balance stuff, so..

I know people who made different hunters in WoW because they liked having different specs, I think people will make different tanks in WAR because they like different looks.

With the tanks and the Squig and Lion that is true but a lot of the other classes are the same. He makes a valid point.

Some quick examples

Bright Wizard = Sorcerer
War Priest = Disciple of Kaine
Witch Hunter = Witchelf
Magus = Engineer

maladen wrote:
KingMob wrote:

Mordiceius, a minor quibble - the White Lion doesn't really match the Squig Herder. Anyway, I agree the classes play similarly but a Chaos Chosen doesn't look anything like the High Elf Swordmaster (for example), and auras != balance stuff, so..

I know people who made different hunters in WoW because they liked having different specs, I think people will make different tanks in WAR because they like different looks.

With the tanks and the Squig and Lion that is true but a lot of the other classes are the same. He makes a valid point.

Some quick examples

Bright Wizard = Sorcerer
War Priest = Disciple of Kaine
Witch Hunter = Witchelf
Magus = Engineer

Is it true if i want to play a Witchelf I have to mangina it up?