Too Human Catch-All

LobsterMobster wrote:

I'm sure we'll hear soon enough why the low reviews are wrong and stupid and need to STFU.

Give me 2 days and I will.

That said, there seems to be inconsistency with the reviews. Such as, 1up mention that there is no difference between classes... yet GameInformer complains that the classes are too different.

LobsterMobster wrote:

The 1up review seems very negative and brutal, but it also seems to very intentionally go around the politics. It just dives right in and stays so focused it almost seems terse. In fact, it seems like it presumes the reader already knows everything about the game.

Sorry, I'm late to the party, and this game hasn't been on my radar (how's that for mixing some metaphors?). What politics do you speak of? Is the game commentary on how vikings secretly run the media and twist the truth to their own nefarious purposes?

doubtingthomas396 wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

The 1up review seems very negative and brutal, but it also seems to very intentionally go around the politics. It just dives right in and stays so focused it almost seems terse. In fact, it seems like it presumes the reader already knows everything about the game.

Sorry, I'm late to the party, and this game hasn't been on my radar (how's that for mixing some metaphors?). What politics do you speak of? Is the game commentary on how vikings secretly run the media and twist the truth to their own nefarious purposes?

Dennis Dyack managed to piss on the batteries of the whole internet a while ago. So he's cool to hate. That's seriously all you need to know.

Lobster seriously, please make a dedicated thread for Dyack haterade.

I read the 1UP review and I don't know if it's just me but I thought it was terribly written and just read like a rant, not unlike their old Neverwinter Nights 2 review that was pulled. I'm not saying his score or his criticisms are wrong as I haven't played the game yet but the text didn't read like it was from someone who entered the review process with an open mind. I kind of expected that to a point though. Agree with Dyack or not, he hasn't made any friends in the gaming press. I guess we'll see what a larger cross-section of publications say. I have a feeling there will be fairly polarized reviews overall.

I'll still be picking up my pre-order tomorrow. I played the demo through multiple times and while it isn't the whole game, I didn't run into any of the problems the reviewer complained about.

Well gee PXA, I wasn't aware I was spewing haterade. I thought I was actually calling 1Up out for being overly negative. Thanks for letting me know I'm actually an unreasonable anti-fanboy.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

The 1up review seems very negative and brutal, but it also seems to very intentionally go around the politics. It just dives right in and stays so focused it almost seems terse. In fact, it seems like it presumes the reader already knows everything about the game.

Sorry, I'm late to the party, and this game hasn't been on my radar (how's that for mixing some metaphors?). What politics do you speak of? Is the game commentary on how vikings secretly run the media and twist the truth to their own nefarious purposes?

Dennis Dyack managed to piss on the batteries of the whole internet a while ago. So he's cool to hate. That's seriously all you need to know. :)

That's not true at all. Dennis thinks he's got the solution to all societal problems locked away in that genius mind of his, and he's a game developer (not a sociologist). It's like taking marital advice from Paris Hilton (not only has she no experience on the matter, she’s in a completely unrelated business………. and she’s stupid). That's why it's cool to hate on Dyak. Had he not come across as a pompous know-it-all who’s game should be praised no matter how good it is or isn’t, maybe he wouldn’t be so cool to hate on.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Well gee PXA, I wasn't aware I was spewing haterade. I thought I was actually calling 1Up out for being overly negative. Thanks for letting me know I'm actually an unreasonable anti-fanboy.

Lobster, come back to Sins, they fixed LRM spam.

Shoal07 wrote:

Lobster, come back to Sins, they fixed LRM spam.

That so? Sweet.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Well gee PXA, I wasn't aware I was spewing haterade. I thought I was actually calling 1Up out for being overly negative. Thanks for letting me know I'm actually an unreasonable anti-fanboy.

Straw man aside, you've added to your original post since I responded to it and I now see what you said about the review which is cool. My question is...

LobsterMobster wrote:

I'm sure we'll hear soon enough why the low reviews are wrong and stupid and need to STFU.

What purpose did that statement serve beyond taking another SK potshot? I'm sorry if I misread your intention but it seemed pretty clear to me.

Shoal07 wrote:

That's not true at all. Dennis thinks he's got the solution to all societal problems locked away in that genius mind of his, and he's a game developer (not a sociologist). It's like taking marital advice from Paris Hilton (not only has she no experience on the matter, she’s in a completely unrelated business………. and she’s stupid). That's why it's cool to hate on Dyak. Had he not come across as a pompous know-it-all who’s game should be praised no matter how good it is or isn’t, maybe he wouldn’t be so cool to hate on.

Whatever, the reasons are irrelevant in a thread about the game. That's why I didn't want to go into extensive detail. I just wanted to point out that there is a controversy of zero importance.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Well gee PXA, I wasn't aware I was spewing haterade. I thought I was actually calling 1Up out for being overly negative. Thanks for letting me know I'm actually an unreasonable anti-fanboy.

Straw man aside, you've added to your original post since I responded to it and I now see what you said about the review which is cool. My question is...

LobsterMobster wrote:

I'm sure we'll hear soon enough why the low reviews are wrong and stupid and need to STFU.

What purpose did that statement serve beyond taking another SK potshot? I'm sorry if I misread your intention but it seemed pretty clear to me.

PAX - Are you saying you'll be surprised when Dyak comes out and blames everyone BUT SK for a poor game? (if it does indeed turn out that way)

Sweet mercy... I pop into the thread for the first time to get some opinions on the game and I get posts filled to the brim with internet controversy, in-forum drama, and comments on societal wrongs and the pitfalls of fanboiism. I... I just wanted to see if I should pick this game up to play while I'm on vacation next week.

Soooo... bout that game... I don't know anything about it other than what has been said so far on the Conference Calls. Diabloesque... loot... electric slide-style kung-fu killing... techno-vikings. How many classes are there and what are they? I hate to derail a good topic but I'd really like to know.

Kehama wrote:

Sweet mercy... I pop into the thread for the first time to get some opinions on the game and I get posts filled to the brim with internet controversy, in-forum drama, and comments on societal wrongs and the pitfalls of fanboiism. I... I just wanted to see if I should pick this game up to play while I'm on vacation next week.

Soooo... bout that game... I don't know anything about it other than what has been said so far on the Conference Calls. Diabloesque... loot... electric slide-style kung-fu killing... techno-vikings. How many classes are there and what are they? I hate to derail a good topic but I'd really like to know. ;)

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/3...

There ya go.

5 classes: Berserker (Melee specialist), Defender, Gunner, Commando (All-rounder), Bio Engineer (healer).

There's 5 classes and at least with reviews, the differences between them seem to be a matter of some debate. They have fairly standard differentiations such as melee, ranged, healer etc. The one thing I can say is that if you're not into kill-and-loot games like Diablo, you probably won't like this. If you are, your best best is to download the demo (which has I think 3(?) playable classes in it now.) This game is of a genre that's either love it or hate it.

Shoal07 wrote:

That's not true at all. Dennis thinks he's got the solution to all societal problems locked away in that genius mind of his, and he's a game developer (not a sociologist). It's like taking marital advice from Paris Hilton (not only has she no experience on the matter, she’s in a completely unrelated business………. and she’s stupid). That's why it's cool to hate on Dyak. Had he not come across as a pompous know-it-all who’s game should be praised no matter how good it is or isn’t, maybe he wouldn’t be so cool to hate on.

So because a person develops games, they shouldn't ever be allowed to speak their opinion on societal issues? No one says you have to listen to them. I sure wouldn't listen to any marriage advice from Paris Hilton but I'd never say she doesn't have a right to express it. Why do people have to be tethered to only speaking about the profession they work in? Dyack's thinking with regards to reviews is also true of most game developers who've spent years of their life dedicated to a project. His biggest problem is that he openly speaks the opinions that most others keep to themselves and I do think that's been a failing of his on some occasions.

Shoal07 wrote:

PAX - Are you saying you'll be surprised when Dyak comes out and blames everyone BUT SK for a poor game? (if it does indeed turn out that way)

First off we don't know this. Secondly if it does, I won't be terribly surprised no. Like I said above, when a AAA game that a large team has worked years on gets bad reviews, the typical response is to always blame other factors (see Lair, Enter the Matrix and the Halo PC port.) It happens everywhere. Dyack's problem is that he'll come out vocally with that opinion and trust me when I say that I think the best thing he can do right now is to go on vacation for a month and not say a bloody word until Too Human's had its initial sales run. Let me be clear: My position is that while I agree with a lot of what he's been saying, the way he's presented it has probably only hurt Too Human. He doesn't explain positions well and has a tendency to get flustered too easily. At any rate, I'm starting to drift into the thread territory I didn't want to go into. My point was simply that if people want to talk about Dyack's tendencies (and I'm up for it), I just wish a dedicated thread would be made for it and that people could restrict this to talking about the game itself and leaving the guy out of it. But that's me. Sorry to sidetrack, I won't anymore.

Well, I didn't particularly enjoy the demo, and everything I disliked about the demo is confirmed in the reviews. It's faulty logic, but I assume if you liked the demo the same will go of the full game. Am I wrong?

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

There's 5 classes and at least with reviews, the differences between them seem to be a matter of some debate.

I found that review comment to be puzzling. From just the demo play alone I found there to be a a great diversity in the classes. One of the first thing that comes to mind is the Defender class's ability to not be knocked down. When I played through with the Defender, I simply walked up to groups of mobs and pounded through them, while simply soaking up the missile damage (usually, missiles knock you on your ass).

I ran through the demo using the Commando and died multiple times. I just couldn't get into the mind set of hanging back and blasting the enemies from afar. Compared to all my other play throughs, the game really changed for me playing as a Commando.

The biggest class difference I have seen though is the melee combat with the Berserker compared to everything else. For me, there is a night and day difference between that class's melee combat and everyone else.

HaciendaSquish wrote:

Well, I didn't particularly enjoy the demo, and everything I disliked about the demo is confirmed in the reviews. It's faulty logic, but I assume if you liked the demo the same will go of the full game. Am I wrong?

Not at all. If the demo didn't do it for you, the full game won't either.

Scaphism wrote:

5 classes: Berserker (Melee Specialist), Defender(Tank), Commando (Guns Specialist), Champion(All-rounder), Bio Engineer (Healer).

Fixed.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I'd be nice if they at least MENTIONED the two-stick control scheme, other than just to say "the controls suck."

I think you missed the entire paragraph of how the control scheme is deficient.

Any word on how long the game will be? Ie is it worth me buying (when money is an issue?) or just rent?

I know that it is early for a question like this, but oh well.

The game's supposed to be about 10 hours but is meant to be played over multiple times and it has drop-in, drop-out co-op. If you're not sure about it, it might be worth renting and then buying if you want to go through it more than once.

I admit I'm reconsidering my purchase. I felt the class variations were too subtle. Maybe if I level a class up to 50 I'll see the genius in this game but do you really need to play a game 3 times before you start to appreciate it? I'm torn because I know Diablo and Diablo 2's best stuff was missed by 95% of the people who played it.

HAHA. Dyack has big plans for the town he lives in.

Tomorrow is almost here and I look forward to finding a time to go and get it. I may check out some reviews in the mean time, but the demo is still good enough for me to warrant the purchase. Now I just make sure that I can buy text books for the semester starting next week...

souldaddy wrote:

HAHA. Dyack has big plans for the town he lives in.

ok...?

Nei wrote:
souldaddy wrote:

HAHA. Dyack has big plans for the town he lives in.

ok...? :?

I didn't want to bash Dyack (and I certainly don't want to see a thread devoted to dyack bashing, not on GWJ) but the article makes him sound like "buy our game or our town will die"

HaciendaSquish wrote:

Well, I didn't particularly enjoy the demo, and everything I disliked about the demo is confirmed in the reviews. It's faulty logic, but I assume if you liked the demo the same will go of the full game. Am I wrong?

Nope I think that's the best way to look at it,

I didn't mind the demo but I will not be buying it at launch, I might eventually get it when it really drops in price but I will also say dennis dyack did turn me off the game as well even though the demo wasn't bad at all, I don't know why I didn't enjoy it but such is life.

I can't be surprised at the reviews and I think it will be interesting to see impressions from people once it's released.

souldaddy wrote:
Nei wrote:
souldaddy wrote:

HAHA. Dyack has big plans for the town he lives in.

ok...? :?

I didn't want to bash Dyack (and I certainly don't want to see a thread devoted to dyack bashing, not on GWJ) but the article makes him sound like "buy our game or our town will die"

I agree it's a really messed up article.

souldaddy wrote:

I didn't want to bash Dyack (and I certainly don't want to see a thread devoted to dyack bashing, not on GWJ) but the article makes him sound like "buy our game or our town will die"

It may not be far from the truth. St. Catharines isn't exactly on fire right now and is a small enough town for Silicon Knights to be a pretty big employer there. That and Silicon Knights is one of only like 3 independent game developers in Ontario and the only one that does AAA projects. If Too Human does well it probably have a significant impact on the game development economy here. I hope so because I'm sick of Montreal and Vancouver getting all the devs.

My father lost his home after E.T. for the Atari came out. Them Atari towns... the work was good when it was there, but soon as the mine dried up they emptied overnight. Ain't nothin but a ghost town now! If you ever pass through them parts, don't you dare mention that game to none of the locals. Not unless you ain't plannin' on ever comin' back!

Consarnit.

Kehama wrote:

... techno-vikings.

Somebody say Techno-Viking?