Conference Call

GWJ Conference Call Episode 143

A Little Something Different This Week, D&D Chat, Russ Pitts From The Escapist, Elysium & His Wife, Your Emails and more!

With everyone wrapped up in holiday festivities and weddings, we did the show a bit differently this week. Rather than sit down to record the show together, we all pitched in on our own time and submitted some audio. These segments were then stitched together by the insane rantings of one Gorgeous Rob Borges. Hope you like it! We're back to a regular show next week. If you want to submit a question or comment call in to our voicemail line at (612) 284-4563.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined. You can also submit a question or comment call in to our voicemail line at (612) 284-4563!

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

"Twilight Bay" (James 106) - 0:24:22
"Gamers With Jobs Radio Theme" - (Ian Dorsch) - 0:54:33
"Atlantis" - Sketchbook (Pneuman) - http://blag.linuxgamers.net - 1:09:04

Comments

Everyone except ME pitched in. I bought the one way ticket to "remember when Rabbit did the CC? That was cool."

Great show this week, loved the format, really helps to have a bit of variety in there every now and then. This might be a lengthy response, so many good parts of the call to talk about!

Firstly, regarding Robs frustration at status effects in DnD. I can appreciate the frustration but I feel this is isn't so much a problem with the way the game is designed but something more to do with the choices of monsters used in the encounters you are facing. There is a lot of choice over the different types of monsters you can use to put an encounter together and the 'cripple the party with status effects' scenario is only one of many options. However, it sounds like it's something you are having trouble dealing with so, as Trachalio said, maybe you need to look at your tactics a little bit more?

Every character has the heal skill, for standard action, any character can attempt a DC 15 Heal check to give an adjacent ally an immediate saving throw attempt or give them a +2 bonus on their next end of turn saving throw. Okay do not everyone is trained in Heal but I would imagine at least one and hopefully two members of your party are (if not, take skill training the next time you get a feat choice ;)). This option allows you to get people to clear status effects prior to other players turns if they are skilled (pg 184, players handbook).

Most leader classes have status effect clearing powers, clerics have divine fortune and sacred flame off the top of my head and I'm certain Paladins have even more options. Maybe you need to look at retraining some powers to fill the gaps in your vulnerabilities to status effects? Every situation can be dealt with by some combination of powers, it sounds like you just need some tweaks to either your powers or tactics to cope with these situations

On the subject of 'roll vs role' playing, I wanted to talk to Shawns point about not being able to just run up and take someone out if you have the skills. Rule 0 of DND is the GM's discretion wins out, just because there isn't a rule for taking someone out automatically (actually, there is, you can use the Coup de Grace rule pg.288 players handbook to score an automatic critical hit and slay them outright if you deal damage equal to their bloodied value) doesn't mean that the GM can't rule you have done so.

I fully agree that DND 4e lends itself to thinking about things in terms of mechanics and this can stifle the roleplaying side of things, but it doesn't HAVE to. At the end of the day, if the GM decides that your rogue is enough of a badass to make it up to the rooftops unseen and take that guard out, just let you do it.

Personally I would handle this as a series of challenges, modified by prior success. Let's say your first skill check is on stealth, and with your skill bonus you end up rolling something over 30. That's amazingly high so I would say that was good enough to hide in shadows all the way to the target and shank them without being spotted, automatic kill. Let's say that stealth check was a 16, for an inattentive guard, that's still enough to not be seen, but maybe you aren't on top of your game, so let's have a climb check to make sure you get up on the roof without making any more noise.

We've certainly had games of DND where a single dice has never rolled across the table, the system does tend to drive you towards rolling for every little thing because the mechanics are so strict, but you don't have to. If it's frustrating, change it. Although I also agree with the decision that trying a different game is an excellent way to mix things up and have a fresh perspective. Maybe you'll come back to DND with a different experience and different approaches.

Lastly @Cory, I appreciate that LAN parties might be dead to you but they are far from dead as a way of playing games. www.multiplay.co.uk run LAN parties every 2 months, varying between 100 and 2000 places for attendees. The advantages of LAN play are significant over playing on the internet. Particularly where PC's and networks are concerned. As a brief example, let's look at Demigod. I have experienced none of the issues in starting games that everyone else has because I have a LAN setup at home and adequate space for friends to bring their PC's round. None of the port forwarding or network issues are present at all and a 4v4 game can be set up in seconds. Also, it has the advantage that when I lose, I can go and physically abuse the person who beat me rather than just ranting at them over a microphone

I would much rather play games in the same room as my friends, the lack of LAN support for starcraft 2 is so disappointing given the history of the previous game. We will still be playing it at the same house, so why on earth should we all have to login to battle.net in order to play against/with each other? With the added complications of port forwarding, lag, passworded games etc.etc.etc. I'd like Blizzard to just give us the option, LAN parties are far from dead.

I've wiffled enough, great podcast guys, keep up the awesome work

I really like the format of this show. There is something nice about the chats between two or three people on a variety of topics. It works very well.

We just had a LAN party in Ottawa this past weekend among the GWJ crew, so I agree with Destrin that LAN play is far from dead. But we have to remember that the removal of LAN play has nothing to do with North American or European customers - I'm sure they'd be happy to include it for us - any everything to do with preventing piracy in South East Asia. I was in Vietnam for a bit around the time Brood War came out, and LAN cafes were extremelly popular there, with the game of choice being Starcraft. I can guarantee that few if not none of the thousands of computers there were running a legitimate copy.

Cory is insane the LAN is not dead! I throw a 16 man LAN in houston and even in 105 degree weather we played. We are hardcore! I do notice that the demographics have shifted from a few years ago from 15-35 to 20-40 guys but I have seen young kids come to my Lan. I think the idea of dragging you computer over to your friends house to play every night is dead but coming together in a group to enjoy yelling at each other while killing them is far from over. It is like poker, online poker is fun, but poker night will never die.

But we are having the next one in a house with A/C. I think I almost lost one of HDD's because of the heat.

IMAGE(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5723/dsc01018v.jpg)

Pharacon wrote:

I throw a 16 man LAN in houston and even in 105 degree weather we played.

You guys look Baconated.

Nice LAN, Phara. The one we just did was relatively small - only 7 people - but still fun.

EDIT: Linking to Picasa doesn't seem to be working. Will add a PIC later.

Your hosting was hilarious, Rob. You ever think of getting into acting?

Good show. Quite different, but I enjoyed most of it. I have no interest in D&D so I ended up skipping the first segment and the first part of the Russ Pitts segment (more D&D talk). Once you two stopped talking about D&D, I really enjoyed the banter going on. I also liked the banter between Mr. and Mrs. Elysium. She was a good sport for allowing herself to be put on the spot.

Oh, and Rob's "dulcet tones" were nice too. So yea, it was a nice change of pace due to the circumstances (I'd much rather have this type of podcast than no podcast this week), but I do prefer the normal format.

MeatMan wrote:

So yea, it was a nice change of pace due to the circumstances (I'd much rather have this type of podcast than no podcast this week), but I do prefer the normal format.

Seconded. I liked the segment with Elysium and his wife. It definitely reminded me of myself and my wife. She'll sit and read a book for 10 hours or more at a time and I just can't understand it and then I find myself sitting up all night playing LOTRO. I guess we're all the same just with different passtimes.

It seems like Elysium's wife is a watcher instead of a gamer, and there's nothing wrong with that. Stories and movies unfold on their own, but games require input to undo each fold the creator put into it. That's not enjoyable for everyone... which explains why she liked watching Portal but not necessarily playing it.

Can we get a retro segment on the next podcast where you interview Rabbit? I'm enjoying listening to him on Three Moves Ahead, but I miss the good old days when he was here.

adam.greenbrier wrote:

Can we get a retro segment on the next podcast where you interview Rabbit? I'm enjoying listening to him on Three Moves Ahead, but I miss the good old days when he was here.

You make it sound like Rabbit is no longer part of the Conference Call. As far as I know that isn't the case. The schedules just haven't meshed up. I am sure things will start getting back to normal fairly soon.

Gaald wrote:

You make it sound like Rabbit is no longer part of the Conference Call. As far as I know that isn't the case. The schedules just haven't meshed up. I am sure things will start getting back to normal fairly soon.

I know he's still on the show and that scheduling has been an issue. I was trying to riff on Rabbit's comment earlier in the discussion:

rabbit wrote:

Everyone except ME pitched in. I bought the one way ticket to "remember when Rabbit did the CC? That was cool."

In response to Certis' request for perfect game systems I had a lot of fun with one of the White Wolf systems I played with a few friends a couple of years ago. I really liked that rather than having a long list of specific skills there were 5 or 6 general skill areas and it was up to the player and the GM to decide what skills were involved. That being said I've only played one game on a D20 system and one on a White Wolf system so I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions out there.

There are two systems, one that uses JUST a d6 and one that uses JUST a d20, I forget what they're called but they were used for both the Big Eyes, Small Mouth anime-based pen and paper game and a related superhero game. The systems are ludicrously flexible (and really are the same system, just one uses a d6 and one uses a d20). The rule books contain a huge amount of abilities a player can take, as well as rules for making more, and because it uses a simple tier-based system it's pretty easy to adapt just about anything you can imagine.

It seems to require a skilled DM though, since it's basically up to them to maintain balance. It's not a game for the sort of people to min-max because it strikes me as very easy to abuse (as is any system with a lot of flexibility).

I thought the format worked pretty well. Good to hear from Russ and good to see Rob embracing his inner Dr. Forrester.
Kudos all around. (except for rabbit)

adam.greenbrier wrote:

Can we get a retro segment on the next podcast where you interview Rabbit? I'm enjoying listening to him on Three Moves Ahead, but I miss the good old days when he was here.

I read on twitter that he died in New Zealand.

rabbit wrote:

Everyone except ME pitched in. I bought the one way ticket to "remember when Rabbit did the CC? That was cool."

There, there; we can do a fake podcast tonight if that'll make you feel better.

Also, Rob drunk with power is scary.

Just finished listening to the 1st segment, and have to admit I geeked the f*ck out when Carla said she's super excited for the Dresden Files RPG to come out. I had no idea there was an RPG system on the way - I'm surprised enough when I find someone who's heard of the series at all!

My wife and I absolutely love the books, but as it happened I didn't marry a gamer (at least not an RPG'er), so I'll have to find some other folks to try that out with. Still, awesome news.

Will listen to the rest soon. Good work as always!

Rat Boy wrote:
rabbit wrote:

Everyone except ME pitched in. I bought the one way ticket to "remember when Rabbit did the CC? That was cool."

There, there; we can do a fake podcast tonight if that'll make you feel better.

Also, Rob drunk with power is scary.

Fake nothing. I've got the recorder.

I also like this week's format, though I must admit the part about D&D bored me to tears since I don't play it anymore (and haven't for over 5 years).

I got to say, all the ladies who talk on this show always got really sexy voices. And I mean that as a compliment, not in a I-is-horny-and-need-laidism way.

I sorta find myself longing for a good old fashioned conference call where it's just the regular crew bullsh*tting about games for an hour. This trip through obscure internet celebrity land lately is getting kinda old

Mmh. The intro was rather intimate Rob....Gorgeous

This trip through obscure internet celebrity land lately is getting kinda old

Man, you're going to hate next week's show starring Leroy Jenkins and the Tron Guy!

In all seriousness, we go back and forth. You'll be bored to tears with us just bs'ing about games for an hour before you know it.

A group of friends and I recently started on dnd 4e, none of us had played any sort of table top rpg before including our dm and we found it really easy to get into. We didn't do a heap of RP but managed to have personalities for our characters by the end of the pre-built campaign.

Getting hit by a status effect was something that came up fairly regularly but I don't remember any battle where it was the only thing creating difficulty. Mostly it was one creature handing out the status effects so once you got it tied up you could go about the battle. It meant that we had to think more creatively about positioning because one creature distracted a defender that would normally be able to help protect our very squishy warlock and wizard. The battle we had the most trouble with was against enemies that damaged anyone standing next to them at the start of the characters turn. So their are other mechanics for difficulty. I guess the point of this paragraph is that the mechanic can make an encounter more interesting and if it was happening so much as to be annoying maybe it was just overused in that campaign.

I have found the emphasis on rolling to be frustrating. At one point a goblin was hiding under a table next to our defender. It had hidden itself under there towards the start of the battle and so was not visible. When standing next to the table the defender said I look under the table to see the goblin and failed a perception check. Apparently he went temporarily blind.

DrJonez wrote:

This trip through obscure internet celebrity land lately is getting kinda old :(

I'm not sure from what angle to be most depressed about this statement. It really is a humdinger. Well done Jonez!

In any event, it was fun to catch up with Shawn and to get a chance to sit in front of a mic for GWJ one more time. The past three years have been such a roller coaster, I often forget that I shared some of my happiest moments doing just that.

Thanks to Rob for keeping the podcast train rolling, and thanks to you all (most of you) for giving a sh*t.

Also, speaking of D&D, I just got home from my Basic D&D group. Five level 3 and 4 PCs, plus 25 NPCs with two catapults and two ballistas brought down a red dragon. It was a pretty sweet encounter and, shockingly, no one died. That was a first for this group. For anyone who hasn't ever played the original ruleset, I can't recommend it enough. It's definitely an experience.

I found the section with Mr. and Mrs. Elysium (hope I'm getting it right this time) very interesting. I found it interesting because I am both those guys. More of Mrs. Elysium, apparently, actually.

I like getting lost in books. I very recently reread Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility on my iPod Touch. The convenience of having my library on tap whenever I have spare time is extremely good - it's gotten me reading again whereas I couldn't find the time previously.

However, I also find myself getting lost in very involved games like Mass Effect and competitive Counterstrike. I can understand how it is for both sides.

Like Mrs. Elysium, I have held off on playing games like Fallout 3 because I have two daughters and a wife, an extended family, and a career. I don't have all that much time to get lost in a game that I'm obsessed about. That said, I also agree that it's about making time rather than having time. I've come to realize that I need alone-recharge time or I'm going to be cranky and moody when I shouldn't be, and sometimes that's reading a book, and sometimes that's playing a campaign of Civ IV.

D&D

3 players 4 roles to fill? Each player has his or her own character and a fourth character gets passed arround to the player on your left at the end of every round. You'd be surprised at the fun dynamic (though be ready to have a stack of prepared fourth characters since it's likely since that part will be the campaign's redshirt).

Instakills, aaah. Higher level characters can do this to lower levels NPC's. And vice versa. And there lies the rub. If a player character in an RPG can do something, then the NPC's can do it too. If a level 1 player character can insta-kill a level 1 npc, then a level 1 player character can be insta-killed by an npc. Not fun. (unless it's the expectation of the game/setting of course).

Savage Worlds is excellent for heroic roleplaying. Trails of Cthulhu is excellent story roleplaying. inSpectres is a personal favourite cooperative creative roleplaying/group game.

the Wife

Deer in the Headlights. She doesn't even get a name in the segment until near the end ;D

Gaald wrote:
adam.greenbrier wrote:

Can we get a retro segment on the next podcast where you interview Rabbit? I'm enjoying listening to him on Three Moves Ahead, but I miss the good old days when he was here.

You make it sound like Rabbit is no longer part of the Conference Call. As far as I know that isn't the case. The schedules just haven't meshed up. I am sure things will start getting back to normal fairly soon.

Rabbit's not on the CC? I guess I don't miss him much if I haven't noticed...