Motorcycle Catch-All

Another vote for the MSF course. Do it right away. Beginner courses will supply the bike for you--most won't let you use your own until you get to a more advanced class.

For your first bike, get something cheap, under 500 cc, and standard (as in Universal Japanese Motorcycle--one where you sit straight up & have a relatively high center of gravity). Ride it for a year before moving up to anything bigger.

I got my first bike at the same place I've bought every one since--a junk yard. Seriously, you can pick up a bike for a few hundred dollars, spend a few hundred more fixing it up (unless it's a complete basket case), and learn a bit about working on them while you're at it. It doesn't take a mechanic to do this; I would usually buy a shop manual, and fix whatever I could, until I ran into something really complicated or that required special tools. Then I'd take it to a professional. Most of these guys love working on vintage bikes.

And be careful!

Marsman wrote:

I use it to commute and drop-off/pick-up Lil'Bean from daycare. She has a matching full-face helmet and she loves to ride with me.

How old was she when you started taking her on rides? My daughter is still too young to go much further than the end of the driveway; but I'm trying to ballpark when she might be ready for longer trips (even though she insists that she's ready now).

ZaneRockfist wrote:

It would cost at least $1,000 to get it running. And then the insurance would cost about $500-750. And then it averages 20 mpg. Factor this over a period of two years and I would be doing a -severe- disservice to myself by using it.

The numbers are different for everyone; but motorcycles have a few extra/higher costs:

  • Tires (generally more expensive per mile than car tires)
  • Training (runs from free to several hundred depending on the state)
  • Gear (helmet, gloves, jacket, pants, and boots)
  • Luggage
  • Insurance (usually higher than a car for equivalent coverage)
  • Regular maintenance

Another factor without a clear financial value is constantly dealing with drivers who seem intent on killing you through their carelessness and poor driving ability.

That said, check around for MSF courses immediately if you're still interested in getting a bike. The course will let you get a bit of saddle time to begin to see if riding is your thing. If you've got some time before it starts I'd suggest stopping by the library to pick up Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough and The Essential Guide to Motorcycle Maintenance by Mark Zimmerman to get you started.

After 20+ years on 2 wheels I have a couple pieces of advice. First, whatever you pick for a ride find a safety course in your area. Some provide bikes and some require you to bring your own. Second, I've always ridden cruisers or early 80's kinda-sport bikes, I would never recommend a 250 as you will outgrow it really fast, try something in the 600 to 750 range. Third, make sure the bike fits you, i.e. make sure you can comfortably plant both feet on the ground at a stop, make sure that the position you are in when riding will be comfortable for longer than 15 minutes.

That's really all I have to add but I can't stress the rider's safety courses enough so make sure you at least try to get into one.

*Edit* Looks like I was beaten to the punch on the safety courses.

I was staying out of this thread because I figured that everyone else would cover most everything I'd want to say - and I was right. But this...

LilCodger wrote:

Seriously agreed. I have never once personally seen anyone riding a crotch rocket who wasn't a road smear waiting to happen. Something about those bikes turns people into morons, and then disfigured crippled morons.

My first street bike, after quite a few years on dirt, was an '88 CBR1000F (Hurricane) that I bought my second year of college - 1994. In 2000, I sold it and got a brand new Hayabusa. Earlier this year, I bought an '03 CBR1000XX which I drive 50 miles round-trip every day that it's not raining in the morning (which this summer in Texas, has been just about every day). I've never laid down any of my (street) motorcycles.

Zane, like everyone else said, take the MSF course. (Don't buy the bike until you do, and pass.) Be mature (and I don't just mean "mature for a 22 year old" if you know what I mean) and respect your motorcycle and its abilities. Be honest with yourself about your own abilities (aka limitations). Don't assume anything about the other drivers on the road or, perhaps safer, just assume they're all morons talking on the phone with one hand, drinking coffee with the other, and driving with their knee. Half of them probably are anyway.

Good luck and keep the shiny side up.

I always wanted a motorcycle. I was all ready to get one too, until one day on Newbury St...

Let me set the scene.

Newbury St. is Boston's see and be scene street. On any given Summer Sunday, you can see all the most beautiful creatures of Boston hanging out, shopping, and pretending that they just don't notice that they are getting noticed on the patio of the corner bistro.

At the end of the street is an area where all the motorcycle riders hang out...there is a broad space where no one can park, and they line the bikes up and sit with them watching all the young and nublies walk by.

So my wife and I are walking up the street, and here are these two Euros trying to be cool, riding motorcycles sans gear, racing in between pedestrians and traffic to get to the spot. They were riding two in a lane, one on a red Ducati, the other on a yellow Kawasaki.

I don't know who started it, but the guy on the Ducati came in too close to the other guy, and the next thing you knew, he was skidding down the tarmac behind a cycle that flipped once and then also settled into a prolonged skid.

He got up, and looked like he had been passed through a meat grinder, but other than some nasty road rash, seemed intact.

The bike, however, was a mess.

Why am I writing this? Because no matter how clever, mature, or safe you think you are, sh*t happens. It's much better to be surrounded by a car than on a cycle when it does, particularly if you aren't used to driving.

For me, I never really thought about getting a cycle after that day, because I know that with my driving, that would be me sliding down the road.

mateo wrote:

here are these two Euros trying to be cool, riding motorcycles sans gear, racing in between pedestrians and traffic

...

no matter how clever, mature, or safe you think you are, sh*t happens

So you start off with an example of two idiots being unsafe and then extrapolate that to "no matter how safe you are, sh*t happens"? Um, ok.

There are plenty of examples of completely mature, safe, and aware drivers - on both 2 wheels and 4 - being hit by other people who are not, but your particular example fails to support your conclusion. There's plenty of argument to be made that cars are empirically safer than motorcycles... but if that was the only criteria, we should just all take the bus and maximize both safety and fuel economy.

Jayhawker wrote:

Yeah, a motorcycle as your only transportation sounds like something a dumb 22-year-old would do. When you factor in your lack of driving experience and lack of responsibility (no license?), you really are just a statistic waiting to happen. I don't even think most motorcycle folks would respect this decision.

I'm probably biased, since i spent weeks at the hospital waiting for my brother to come out of a coma after he launched his crotch rocket into a truck that pulled out in front of him. I didn't see him until he had been flown via helicopter from Lawrence to KC. He had a broken jaw (and broken as in mostly torn from his face, so where a freaking full face helmet!), a cracked vertebrae in his neck and lots of other, just damage. They needed to wire his head to his body, and then wire him to a halo so that they could repair his jaw without moving his neck. That surgery only took about 16 hours.

Then I spent weeks going to the hospital and talking to him, trying to lure him out of his coma. It was probably the worst time in my life.

But hey, if you can save a few bucks, I'm sure this is a great decision.

Well said. I have known three people who used motorcycles as a form of daily transportation. Two of them are now dead, and the other seriously injured himself while on his bike. Bottom line is that a car/truck is a more cost-effective, safer and reasonable choice. Plus I can't imagine insurance for a cycle being very cheap.

Jayhawker wrote:

Yeah, a motorcycle as your only transportation sounds like something a dumb 22-year-old would do. When you factor in your lack of driving experience and lack of responsibility (no license?), you really are just a statistic waiting to happen. I don't even think most motorcycle folks would respect this decision.

There's really not much of a choice. It's either no transportation at all or a bike, so what do I choose? The car simply isn't feasible.

Grumpicus wrote:
mateo wrote:

here are these two Euros trying to be cool, riding motorcycles sans gear, racing in between pedestrians and traffic

...

no matter how clever, mature, or safe you think you are, sh*t happens

So you start off with an example of two idiots being unsafe and then extrapolate that to "no matter how safe you are, sh*t happens"? Um, ok.

There are plenty of examples of completely mature, safe, and aware drivers - on both 2 wheels and 4 - being hit by other people who are not, but your particular example fails to support your conclusion. There's plenty of argument to be made that cars are empirically safer than motorcycles... but if that was the only criteria, we should just all take the bus and maximize both safety and fuel economy.

I am sure that those "two idiots" thought they had control of their bikes just fine.

You could always get a bicycle. I can do around 10-15 city miles in an hour and I've only been riding for a month or so.
Gas is cheap, insurance is cheap.
And you get in shape.

mateo wrote:

I am sure that those "two idiots" thought they had control of their bikes just fine.

Sorry to step all over your religion.

I've read that more than 90% of motorcyclists that have been injured or died in an accident did not have proper training; in fact, they were completely self-taught.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Yeah, a motorcycle as your only transportation sounds like something a dumb 22-year-old would do. When you factor in your lack of driving experience and lack of responsibility (no license?), you really are just a statistic waiting to happen. I don't even think most motorcycle folks would respect this decision.

There's really not much of a choice. It's either no transportation at all or a bike, so what do I choose? The car simply isn't feasible.

The only reason it's not feasible is because you're not making it feasible. Several people have shown in real math that fixing the car will put you in better shape. You will spend more on the bike than fixing the car, seriously.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Yeah, a motorcycle as your only transportation sounds like something a dumb 22-year-old would do. When you factor in your lack of driving experience and lack of responsibility (no license?), you really are just a statistic waiting to happen. I don't even think most motorcycle folks would respect this decision.

There's really not much of a choice. It's either no transportation at all or a bike, so what do I choose? The car simply isn't feasible.

I know you keep saying "the car" isn't feasible. But maybe you can find "another car". I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just that a motorcycle for your primary transportation, when you not only have zero experience on a bike, but almost no experience driving at all, is just a real bad idea.

I don't want to dump on the motorcycle guys here. I think a motorcycle is a great toy, and fun way to get around in good conditions. Of course, real life is not always good conditions. It rains, it gets freaking crazy windy, and sometimes, you just aren't up to it. Riding a motorcycle is a lot more work than driving a car. You can't be tired or sick.

The accident my brother had was not his fault. The truck pulled in front of him. But that doesn't matter, the cycle loses to a car or truck every time. Grumpicus is absolutely right. You have to assume everyone else is a moron, because their mistake can cost you your life. The consequences of a simple fender bender are so much greater when you are on a motorcycle.

But seriously. You are 22. If you cannot manage things well enough to own a car, I have real doubts that a motorcycle is a good choice for you. If you get one anyway, just take the classes and be safe. My brother was just about your age when he went down on his crotch rocket, so it really freaks me out to hear about your plan. I'm sure you have family and friends who would rather not spend weeks seeing you at the hospital.

I'm not trying to say people that ride bikes are idiots or dumb. But as you have read here, there is a right way of going about it. I'm saying they demand a level of responsibility which, from your post, you seem to lack.

AnimeJ wrote:

The only reason it's not feasible is because you're not making it feasible. Several people have shown in real math that fixing the car will put you in better shape. You will spend more on the bike than fixing the car, seriously.

The car is 12 years old, has 100k miles, and has sat for the last four years. It's not feasible. :p Even if I were to repair it, which would cost at least 1k, it would still be an incredibly difficult car to maintain.

Jayhawker wrote:

But seriously. You are 22. If you cannot manage things well enough to own a car, I have real doubts that a motorcycle is a good choice for you. If you get one anyway, just take the classes and be safe. My brother was just about your age when he went down on his crotch rocket, so it really freaks me out to hear about your plan. I'm sure you have family and friends who would rather not spend weeks seeing you at the hospital.

I'm not trying to say people that ride bikes are idiots or dumb. But as you have read here, there is a right way of going about it. I'm saying they demand a level of responsibility which, from your post, you seem to lack.

I fail to see how my post translates that I'm irresponsible. I'm a college student with limited funds from a poor family. And I need transportation, but where am I going to get cheap, reliable transportation, especially with gas prices being what they are?

I understand your concerns, guys, but the situation is complicated. It's either no transportation or a motorcycle. The hope of getting a motorcycle has really lifted my spirits since it seems to be the only way I'll finally have some independence; otherwise, I'll have to continue relying on other people to get around.

V-O wrote:

Second, I've always ridden cruisers or early 80's kinda-sport bikes, I would never recommend a 250 as you will outgrow it really fast, try something in the 600 to 750 range.

That's horrible advice to be giving a new rider, especially on that doesn't even have any experience driving. A new rider on a modern 600-750cc sportbike is pretty much the definition of a SQUID. It's like telling a new driver to buy a Lamborghini because he'll outgrow a sedan too fast.

Get a vespa.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

I fail to see how my post translates that I'm irresponsible.

When this

ZaneRockfist wrote:

I'm 22, but I still don't have a driver's license. I've had a car for about four years now, but I've never used it. And as the years have passed by, the list of repairs that need to be made has increased. So I found myself contemplating transportation the other day when I had an epiphany, "I'll get a motorcycle!"

Leads to this

IMAGE(http://www.zx10r.dk/zx10rspecs_files/img_black_zx10r00.gif)

It will cost a few grand, but the amount of money I'll save on repairs, insurance, and gas will completely offset it within a year. Not only that, but motorcycles get chicks.

Houston, we have a problem.

Here is the plan: I'll purchase a bicycle and use it for daily transportation while I learn how to use the motorcycle. I'll enroll in safety courses and a local motorcycle club to further enhance my training. How does that sound to you guys?

Dr.Ghastly wrote:

Get a vespa.

Actually, a really good suggestion. If saving money is what you're after, you may want to consider the Piaggio MP3. It's a hybrid scooter that just came out. Gets about 70 mpg. The 250 starts at $7100, so it may be out of price range, but everything I've read about this thing is good. Scooter may be the right answer for you. I try to suggest scooters to people wanting to get into bikes, but no one ever likes the "cool" factor. Even though some of the scooters out the are pretty bad ass. I got passed on the interstate one day by a guy in a Silverwing. Dressed in trendy attire, slacks, dress shoes, etc. Just rolled past me easy as you please. Kind of disconcerting.

Also, don't keep saying that a car is out of the question. It is entirely possible to either fix a car, or get a different car, without too much monetary investment. There are a lot of advantages to having a car over a motorcycle. All weather driving, passenger/Storage space (bringing back groceries on a sportbike is no fun, believe me,) safety in case of an accident, etc.

We do have a lot of hostility in this thread, but it's all people that primarily want you to be safe, don't go for the kneejerk reaction and discount the advice here entirely. Keep an open mind, and look at it from all angles, then decide whether it's a good idea or not.

As I alluded in my first post (referencing the morning weather), the motorcycle is my preferred form of transportation but it is not my sole source. Until last week, my transportation choices for my 50-mile commute were, in order of frequency, motorcycle (~40 MPG), '93 Toyota Corolla with 196k miles (I don't know, 25MPG?), express bus from the park and ride ($17/month to ride all I want)*, or my 5.9L V8 Dodge 1500 that probably gets about 17 MPG on the highway. (I say "until last week" because I sold the Corolla because 4 vehicles in the family - counting the wife's people-mover - was a bit much.) If it's raining, on the other hand, the motorcycle drops to the bottom of the list.

A quick scan of Craigslist shows that a used Ninja 250 runs $2000 to $3000. The KBB on that Corolla was about $1500 and I sold it for $1100 because it was to a co-worker and it wasn't that pretty to look at... but it ran fine and always did. My point is, you can take what you were planning to spend on the motorcycle, maybe sell your current car for parts (or even fix it up enough so it will start and sell it for much more), and get a much more practical, if less stylish and fun, vehicle.

Look, in case I haven't made it clear in earlier posts, I'm all for you getting a small (e.g. a 250 like you planned) motorcycle - if you approach it from the right perspective and with appropriate levels of caution and respect. That being said, if you were my kid, I'd tell you to spend the same amount of money on the best Honda or Toyota you can find, and drive that until the wheels fell off.

* Admittedly, the bus was only added to the list this spring but I really don't mind riding it when I can afford to take twice as long to get to work. Actually, another justification for selling the car was that it would "force" me to ride the bus more since taking the truck in to work would be a relatively painful level of economic foolishness.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

I understand your concerns, guys, but the situation is complicated. It's either no transportation or a motorcycle. The hope of getting a motorcycle has really lifted my spirits since it seems to be the only way I'll finally have some independence; otherwise, I'll have to continue relying on other people to get around.

I have got to call BS on this. A moped is way cheaper than a motorcycle. If money were the reason, you wouldn't be looking at a crotch rocket.

Jayhawker is my brother -- I also spent weeks waiting for my little brother to come out of the coma after his motorcycle accident. In addition to what Jayhawker described, I was also at the first hospital in Lawrence, where they asked me to go in and see him right away while the ER team was working on him (think about why they would ask you to see an accident victim while a team of doctors are frantically working on him). I saw my little brother flatline a few times, but they were able to bring him back each time. Then I saw them load him on the helicopter for KC. The doctors later told my brother that they never thought he would survive the helicopter flight.

The thing is, it doesn't matter whether you are doing everything right when you are on a motorcycle (though, as others have pointed out, people riding crotch rockets rarely are). If some idiot (and let's face it, the world if filled with them) in a car or truck does something stupid, you die and they need to get their car or truck fixed. My brother wasn't at fault in his accident. But the driver of the truck that turned in front of him was completely fine, and my brother barely survived.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

Not only that, but motorcycles get chicks.

Dead (or disfigured) doesn't impress the chicks.

I like that people are calling the 250r a crotch rocket.

Other than styling.. it really doesn't have much "rocket" in it. In fact.. it barely beats my Ford Focus in the quarter mile. By less than a second. It is not a fast vehicle. In fact there's people whose four door family mobiles are quicker on the road than this bike. It's meant to be a couple of things, neither of which is a "crotch rocket". One is a starter bike for people just getting into riding. Something to learn on. The other is a nice handling little everyday bike for people who want to ride but also want it to be economical. The damn thing retails for around $3300, for a new one. It's not a bank breaker. It costs less than a hell of a lot of used cars, gets better mileage, and insurance isn't as drastically different as you might think it would be. I was quoted a $10 a month price difference over what I pay for my Focus for that exact bike.

All the hate for bikes here is really surprising to me.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

The only reason it's not feasible is because you're not making it feasible. Several people have shown in real math that fixing the car will put you in better shape. You will spend more on the bike than fixing the car, seriously.

The car is 12 years old, has 100k miles, and has sat for the last four years. It's not feasible. :p Even if I were to repair it, which would cost at least 1k, it would still be an incredibly difficult car to maintain.

100k miles on a 12 year old car is nothing. If it's a Corolla to boot, then it's doubly nothing; those cars, well maintained(which is bloody easy, I do ALL my basic vehicle maintenance myself, for very cheap) will last well into the 500k range.

I stand by my point.

Coming from a family of doctors, I could never ride a donorcycle.

Thin_J wrote:

I like that people are calling the 250r a crotch rocket.

That's because people like to judge things by their looks. Most don't know enough to realize that its seating position is more like a standard than a sport bike.

Thin_J wrote:

The damn thing retails for around $3300, for a new one.

There was a price bump this year to o with the new styling. MSRP is now $3500 and due to demand a lot of dealers aren't letting them out the door for anything under $4K.

Thin_J wrote:

All the hate for bikes here is really surprising to me.

It's like any other "I want a ____ " thread around here. For an example, if someone starts a thread about wanting to buy their first gun we'll see four general types of responses:

  • Training advisers - get training and be safe and responsible
  • Fear mongers - you'll shoot your eye out and kill your friends like my uncle
  • Haters - OMFG guns are evil and should be outlawed
  • Irresponsible advice - get a .50 and shoot it in you suburban back yard
ZaneRockfist wrote:

There's really not much of a choice. It's either no transportation at all or a bike, so what do I choose? The car simply isn't feasible.

I'm curious how you reach this conclusion. I drive an 11-year old Toyota right now with 150K miles on it. It is worth maybe $1,500. Servicing runs around $1,000 per year and I could drive it to 200k, no problem. This is very cheap transportation.

Fixing a corolla with 100k miles is a very practical choice because those cars are known for solidity. I understand the attraction of a motorcycle, and if you say that you prefer the thrill of riding a motorcycle then there's no counterargument there. But I'm wondering why you're placing yourself in the position where you're arguing that there is no alternative.

Grumpicus wrote:

I was staying out of this thread because I figured that everyone else would cover most everything I'd want to say - and I was right. But this...

LilCodger wrote:

Seriously agreed. I have never once personally seen anyone riding a crotch rocket who wasn't a road smear waiting to happen. Something about those bikes turns people into morons, and then disfigured crippled morons.

My first street bike, after quite a few years on dirt, was an '88 CBR1000F (Hurricane) that I bought my second year of college - 1994. In 2000, I sold it and got a brand new Hayabusa. Earlier this year, I bought an '03 CBR1000XX which I drive 50 miles round-trip every day that it's not raining in the morning (which this summer in Texas, has been just about every day). I've never laid down any of my (street) motorcycles.

You've never passed me in traffic.

I work for TV news, and the newsroom loves motorcycle crashes. Wanna take a guess how the sportbike/cruiser ratio plays out?

In every part of Ohio I've ever lived in, I stay as far away from the Ninja/etc. riders as I can. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, and they always, without exception, have started weaving in and out of tight traffic at the least. That's if they're not popping wheelies.

Perhaps its regional. I'm guessing folks in the South are much better behaved as they can ride year round. The worst period around here is the first few weeks after they bring the bikes out of storage.

Thin_J wrote:

I like that people are calling the 250r a crotch rocket.

Other than styling.. it really doesn't have much "rocket" in it. In fact.. it barely beats my Ford Focus in the quarter mile. By less than a second. It is not a fast vehicle.

The Ninja 250R does 0-60 in 5.75 seconds, with a 14.6 second quarter-mile.

Your 2008 Ford Focus is listed by Motor Trend at 8.3 seconds for 0-60, and 16.3 seconds for the quarter-mile.

For comparison, a Porsche 911 GT2 puts in 3.9 seconds for 0-60, and 11.7 seconds for the quarter-mile.

The Ninja is pretty quick, and qualifies in my book as a crotch-rocket.

infinitelyloopy wrote:

A moped is way cheaper than a motorcycle. If money were the reason, you wouldn't be looking at a crotch rocket.

Exactly. My Yamaha C3 was $3k, brand-new, including all the things the dealership tacks on and my gear. MSRP is $2k. It gets 115mpg, does fine on speed, and has a huge storage box under the seat. If money is the issue, a scooter kicks the snot out of even a motorcycle. Plus, in many states you don't even need a license for a 50cc.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

[*]Irresponsible advice - get a .50 and shoot it in you suburban back yard

I stand by that advice. u_u