Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Catch All

Mixolyde wrote:
rabbit wrote:

I started reading the Keep, but then Zenke promised to DM me through it, so I stuck it in a drawer. The first encounter seems cool though (grin).

Are you going to be playing the Zenke game all online? Any chance of recording and cutting to podcast like the PA/PVP one for Wizards?

Oh snap! Great idea Mix!

Mixolyde wrote:
rabbit wrote:
I started reading the Keep, but then Zenke promised to DM me through it, so I stuck it in a drawer. The first encounter seems cool though (grin).
Are you going to be playing the Zenke game all online? Any chance of recording and cutting to podcast like the PA/PVP one for Wizards?
Oh snap! Great idea Mix!

I thought they said on this week's Conference Call podcast that Zenke was going to run it (or maybe it was something else) for them at GenCon.

They did, but that doesn't mean they can't record it for posterity, right?

I haven't played regularly (i.e. - more than one session) since AD&D 2nd Ed. A good friend of mine bought the 3-book box set and is working on some campaign ideas. I bought my own PHB and have been working through that. I love the book so far, certainly. It definitely feels like the game is much more combat/mini oriented. I'm not so sure if that's a good or bad thing, really. Certainly it could help clear up a lot of combat rules and things and make that much less arbitrary. Will that kill some of the spirit of the game? I guess we won't know until we really play it.

I may be interested in an online group, too.

I just looked at one of the pre-rolled character sheets. A LEVEL 1 WIZARD HAS 20 HP!!!! What happened to my 1d4 and lots of praying while rolling?

LiquidMantis wrote:

I just looked at one of the pre-rolled character sheets. A LEVEL 1 WIZARD HAS 20 HP!!!! What happened to my 1d4 and lots of praying while rolling?

I believe every character starts with 15 + Constitution bonus for HP (plus any from other sources).

Yup, characters start with a higher amount of HP at level 1 (nice change, I like that a lot actually), but the amount it increases at levelling up is quite moderate and class-dependent.

The original idea was to grab the "sweet spot" from level 5-10, where wizards were playable but not overpowered, and turn the whole game into that.
So everyone starts with more hit points and powers, they're gained kind of slowly. And an 11th level wizard or cleric can no longer annihilate a melee class with one spell.

I checked out the new D&D ruleset on a lark. I made fun of it and joked how it'd be a blast from the past. Now I'm preparing to run my first campaign with my wife, son, and brother in law. I feel like I woke up in an ice-filled bathtub with my kidney missing. I don't know exactly how the hell it happened....

My son is excited. Keep of the Shadowfell will be here tomorrow. The nearest game shop (unfortunately a small shop in the mall) was out of dice sets and d20s in singles, plus the rest of their singles were well picked through. When we got home he picked out a Chessex set of dice that we ordered from TrollandToad.com that'll be in first of next week and he thought that was really cool. (Shiny!) Hopefully we'll start up this weekend with my supply of nearly quarter-century old (!) dice.

Give it a year an the smartest of us will have a way to play for free. I have to wait until my shipment is in before I join ya.

I'm also interested in online playing. I played a demo with Kingmob a while back and really enjoyed it.

That was a fun game.

Did I tell you I called Max later and apologized? I had him roll his Stealth against active Perception checks by the monsters, when I should have been using their passive Perception values.

I rolled really well, which is why his wizard ended up being flanked by two angry hobgoblins in a suprise round "Welcome to 4th Ed!" kinda dick move on my part.

Anyway, if I had done it properly his plan to use Ghost Sound to trick the hobgoblins in the tower totally would have worked.

Yeah, I'm available nights and weekends in Northern Virginia to run unfair PC-killing games... where is everyone going?

ps. I got some good hits in, but due to the wizard's high HP... he didn't die! The party charged in and helped him out in time, despite my every effort to crush him.

KingMob wrote:

That was a fun game.

Which utility did you guys use?

Fyedaddy wrote:
KingMob wrote:

That was a fun game.

Which utility did you guys use?

Pretty sure they used a kitchen table. Maybe even a dedicated gaming table.

Farscry wrote:
Fyedaddy wrote:
KingMob wrote:

That was a fun game.

Which utility did you guys use?

Pretty sure they used a kitchen table. Maybe even a dedicated gaming table. :D

What's the monthly fee for that one?

KingMob wrote:

I rolled really well, which is why his wizard ended up being flanked by two angry hobgoblins in a suprise round "Welcome to 4th Ed!" kinda dick move on my part.

Oooh, I like the idea of a "Welcome to 4th Edition" beatdown. I guess that's why I run games more than I play.

I got to use the phrase 'And now you get to understand the new dying mechanic' a couple of times. They all survived, 4e characters are tough.

KingMob wrote:

Yeah, I'm available nights and weekends in Northern Virginia to run unfair PC-killing games... where is everyone going?

There's never enough victims... uh players... when you want them.

I know I complained about the character powers, but I do really dig what they've done with monsters and the fleshing out they've done of tactics, sub-classes, and background. I'm glad that we're no longer at "A gnoll is a gnoll is a gnoll."

Yeah, it seems like I can look up a monster by character level, throw together the appropriate number of monsters, and have an appropriate encounter for that level without thinking too hard, and end up with an interesting mix of strategies on my end.

For example if the characters are lvl 9 I could get a lvl 9 encounter by looking at the table in the back of the MM, seeing Troll, going to the Troll entry, and going to the end of the entry, where it gives me a lvl 9 encounter (3 trolls and 2 destrachans), a lvl 16 encounter (2 war trolls, some drow, a night hag, and some grimlocks), and a lvl 19 encounter. So lots of options, and if I really like trolls this can be an appropriate once-per-day encounter for a lvl 7 party

Anyway so that takes me about 2 minutes, and the only thing they're missing is treasure. Trolls are a bad example because they're mainly brutes, but paired with the destrachans they'll have a slightly more interesting strategy, and of course the level 16 encounter will knock your socks off, take about an hour, and have lots of fun things to do.

I ran through a few combats with some friends the other night using the new 4th edition rules. Keeping in mind we are all veterans of the 3-3.5 systems.

1. The combat in 4th edition is very fluid once you get the hang of it. With characters being able to do basic attacks each round and special attacks once per encounter or once per day things really seemed to take off. By that I mean, combat is much more interesting from a group perspective. Those playing the PCs spent more time coordinating attacks, thinking of strategies, and just plain working together more so than in 3rd.

2. In my opinion combat in 3rd edition was a bit boring. Just having somebody say, "I attack with my axe," rolling to-hit and then rolling damage was way too bland and often times led to players falling asleep at the table.

3. One of the very cool things with 4th edition is your basic attacks sort of scale as you progress in levels. This scaling may be in the form of damage and or effects. A level 20th fighter is going to do more damage with a basic sword attack than a level 5 is with the same sword attack.

4. Monster encounters are designed more around a group of mobs as opposed to a single monster. In previous editions a DM would often times limit an encounter to one or two monsters just for the sake of speed. In 4th edition it was very easy to add in 5+ mobs of varying ability, and actually run a very interesting encounter. Rules for bloodied and special attacks make things very interesting. Even if the party fights something like a dragon (or equally large nasty creature) the combat isn't going to last for hours on end. The players do very nice (and beefy) damage. This provides the kind of "gaming sensation" a player gets in an MMO when their DPS jumps up on their screen. There were quite a few times during our game when somebody would enthusiastically cry out, "Did you see the damage I just did!" Because of this, monsters don't survive more than a couple of solid hits.

In the end it the whole game feels like WotC has been playing a lot of World of Warcraft and thought, "How can we take the PC game and make this on the tabletop." If that is indeed what they did, they succeeded. Even after going through the rulebook and checking out magical items you have things like slots for items. Neck, head, legs, etc. I was pretty impressed just reading through the rulebook, but now I'm even more impressed after having run a few encounters.

And let me just say that Warlocks are hella cool!

For my entire life I have been a PC now the group has insisted that I DM and I am completely flustered. Any tips?

This is how Zonk rolls.

Zen Mutty wrote:

For my entire life I have been a PC now the group has insisted that I DM and I am completely flustered. Any tips?

Don't be afraid to make something up on the fly. Often times a situation will come up that you won't know how to handle it. You won't remember the rule or even where the rule is. Rather than putting the massive pause button on the game while you search for the rule (allowing boredom and random acts of nonesense to ensue at the gaming table while players wait for you) just go with what feels right. Roll some dice behind the screen and go with your instinct.

One of the most interesting game sessions I had was when I made the players roll damage for each other. So when one PC got hit, I'd tell another PC to roll X dice and then say, "That's how much damage you take." Talk about adding additional suspense to the players.

So don't be afraid to just "wing it" if things get a bit odd. As long as the action and story keeps moving forward, your players will be having a good time.

Rather than putting the massive pause button on the game while you search for the rule (allowing boredom and random acts of nonesense to ensue at the gaming table while players wait for you) just go with what feels right.

I think that's the single most important aspect of DMing. Just going with the flow & improvising as needed. Stats & rules are okay and all but thinking on the fly and letting your players pull off amazing feats is more fun for everyone. Ultimately, your goal as DM is to give all your players a good time, not just try and kill them as quickly as possible.

Also, as an aside, 4th edition's skill simplification & Stat vs. Saving Throw mechanics make improvising really easy.

Going back to my 1st point on not trying to kill them... Back when I was DMing a 3rd edition launch campaign I killed all my players in the first minute. Meteor smashed into the inn where their characters were all sitting in doing their awkward introductions. I never told the players the campaign was based in an after-life version of the "real world". Ending up being a great campaign once they got over the initial shock.

LockAndLoad wrote:

Also, as an aside, 4th edition's skill simplification & Stat vs. Saving Throw mechanics make improvising really easy.

I really don't like the new "Skill Encounters" they added to the game. Going through the Keep on Shadowfell adventure, there are several points where to pass an encounter the PCs must make X number of succesful skill checks before failing X number. It just seems so lame. I'm thinking I'm going to have to change those encounters up a bit before running it.

And I'd also like to reinforce that DMing is all about going with the flow. Don't be afraid to break the rules to make the game fun (just try to keep it hidden from the players).

Tkyl wrote:

And I'd also like to reinforce that DMing is all about going with the flow. Don't be afraid to break the rules to make the game fun (just try to keep it hidden from the players).

Both of these points cannot be emphasized enough. A good DM knows when the break the rules. However, a good DM does it carefully and subtly enough that the players don't catch on; if they do, it goes from being fun for the players to feeling like the adventure is really just an on-rails shooter stage like something from Star Fox or Contra or something. Yeah, we all know the DM is ultimately in charge, but a good DM will strike a good balance between controlling the course of the adventure themselves and letting the players have free will in determining how things work out too.

rooster wrote:

3. One of the very cool things with 4th edition is your basic attacks sort of scale as you progress in levels. This scaling may be in the form of damage and or effects. A level 20th fighter is going to do more damage with a basic sword attack than a level 5 is with the same sword attack.

That's definitely a nice feature, though didn't STR modifiers come into play either way in previous editions.

rooster wrote:

3. One of the very cool things with 4th edition is your basic attacks sort of scale as you progress in levels. This scaling may be in the form of damage and or effects. A level 20th fighter is going to do more damage with a basic sword attack than a level 5 is with the same sword attack.

Does this include spells? One of the most short-sighted aspects of 1e through 3e was how some wizard attack spells scaled damage while others didn't. So the spellbook became littered with absolutely worthless spells after a certain level, unless you were fighting monsters so trivial for your level that even a wizard could kill them in melee.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Does this include spells? One of the most short-sighted aspects of 1e through 3e was how some wizard attack spells scaled damage while others didn't. So the spellbook became littered with absolutely worthless spells after a certain level, unless you were fighting monsters so trivial for your level that even a wizard could kill them in melee.

The spells do scale, I haven't fully tested it. A lot of the useless spells have been made more useful by turning them into out of combat rituals. They cost money to use but even someone who's not a wizard could take the time to learn rituals.

Alright... I'm at a loss here. A lot of the actions and attacks have "Hit: 1[W]" and "2[W]". What the shoot does this mean?