"Left 4 Dead" Catch All

I for one welcome our zombie overlords! I want this game too, but I have avoided all Hype because it will get to rabid for me and I will die when valve pulls stuff like this.

Just wait it will come out and when it does it will own.

I'm not concerned about competition from other zombie games. I fully expect Left 4 Dead to pwn them all. I am, however, concerned about the glut of awesome-looking co-op games slated for the end of the year, particularly Colonial Marines, Gears 2, and Mercenaries 2. Colonial Marines in particular could end up treading some of the same territory.

Podunk wrote:

Have I mentioned that I played it last August? :)

Yes ... Yes, you did.

My cryptic "Lost Planet" prediction can only come true if this game actually comes out.

This one is firmly on my list after the last batches of previews/videos a couple months back. I also look forward to fighting my way through zombie hordes alongside you folks.

Podunk wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

What, you weren't already in the loop? For shame! We're all very disappointed in you. :D

I've given up asking my friend at Valve about release dates. He has never given me a satisfactory answer. :)

But did he ever give you a correct one?

New Video

How many times in that video did someone stand in a doorway between the zombie and their teammates, blocking the view, and getting show in the back?

How does everyone feel about being able to see your teammates through walls?

I can't speak from experience, but reading about it and seeing it, my initial reaction is that I don't like it. It seems too gamey. (Though, no more gamey than radar, I suppose.) Reading previews, the game sounds hard enough as it is. I can see how this feature is useful. However, as dumb as this sounds considering the in-game situation, I don't like the feature's lack of realism. I think it could negatively affect immersion. We'll see. That's just what I saw when I first heard of the feature.

McChuck wrote:

New Video

How many times in that video did someone stand in a doorway between the zombie and their teammates, blocking the view, and getting show in the back?

How does everyone feel about being able to see your teammates through walls?

I can't speak from experience, but reading about it and seeing it, my initial reaction is that I don't like it. It seems too gamey. (Though, no more gamey than radar, I suppose.) Reading previews, the game sounds hard enough as it is. I can see how this feature is useful. However, as dumb as this sounds considering the in-game situation, I don't like the feature's lack of realism. I think it could negatively affect immersion. We'll see. That's just what I saw when I first heard of the feature.

From what i've seen in the videos so far, friendly fire is off... and you can shoot through your team mates.
I'm still looking forward to the game but i really want a demo to see what it's like.... plus, not having anyone to play with kinda sucks...

I wasn't watching damage meters, but I thought I saw blood from friendly fire. I definitely heard several times one characters saying to another to watch their fire.

Podunk, care to clarify? You've played it so you have to be useful. You can't just gloat.

Oh btw i was taking those cues from a video i watched on Gametrailers - not the one in your post.

[edit] You're right though on that video there does seem to be FF enabled in the hospital video.

Ugh! I almost had to stop watching that video... the teamwork was so poor! The number of times there was an audio cue (like someone choking and being lifted off the ground) and the rest of the team ignoring it was so annoying... not to mention the guy we're watching running off all the time. :/

el_dino wrote:

But did he ever give you a correct one?

No.

Seriously, it's been delayed internally a few more times than it's been delayed publicly, so while he has given me good info in the past it's always turned out to be obsolete after a month or two.

McChuck wrote:

I wasn't watching damage meters, but I thought I saw blood from friendly fire. I definitely heard several times one characters saying to another to watch their fire.

Podunk, care to clarify? You've played it so you have to be useful. You can't just gloat. :)

There is full friendly fire and it can't be switched off. You most definitely cannot shoot through teammates. However, they've implemented FF in a kind of a cool way:

Scott Sharkey wrote:

I couldn't help but notice that a shotgun blast to a buddy's face hurt a lot when he was at full health, not so much when he was at half health, and less than a sliver when he was almost dead. And it didn't damage people at all when they were lying on the ground or being mauled by zombies -- seems like a clever compromise. Watching your fire and not pissing off your teammates adds a lot, especially when they're going to be pulling a zombie off your back and patching you up a few minutes later. Putting friendly damage on an inverse curve is a great way of preserving that while minimizing the chance of a lone idiot insta-gibbing the whole squad with a badly tossed pipe bomb. Yeah, it seemed worth trying.

That FF system is a great idea.

Interesting and cool. So the instances i saw it happen in must have been when the other guy was pretty low on health.

McChuck wrote:

How does everyone feel about being able to see your teammates through walls?

Plenty fine. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that's a host-changeable on/off toggle.

When games get to the point where positional sound is perfect, and I'm not viewing the world through a small 16:9 box on my desk, then I'll worry about unrealistic things like seeing my teammates through walls. Of course, when that day comes, we won't need those kind of visual cues anymore.

Wow, that looks fast. I don't mind the team-vision stuff. A game is a game, and if it needs to include things that make playing it more fun but the game less realistic, please do include it.

What I fear is the block fest you will get in those crowded places. One of the most infuriating features of the Source engine is it's block mechanism. It can really make me want to pull out my hear when a pubtards starts blocking a door not moving anywhere, the rest of the team is bumping in to you from behind effectively pinning you to that spot with nowhere to move. ARGH! Those wider area's will be a relief to get to. I hope they make enough of those.

In all looks like it will be a hectic coop shooter which could be very fun with a few friends.

I would think they would implement it in the same way they implement blocking in TF2. If two people on the same team move through the same space, neither blocks the other, but both are pushed aside a bit. If two people on different teams try to move through the same space, both are blocked.

Duoae wrote:

From what i've seen in the videos so far, friendly fire is off... and you can shoot through your team mates.
I'm still looking forward to the game but i really want a demo to see what it's like.... plus, not having anyone to play with kinda sucks...

Take previews with a grain of salt. Very few of them are indicative of the final product. In shooters especially, often all damage is turned off except to NPCs. One of the things you need to remember is that game press generally suck ass at games. And a great fear of developers is to have a hard game ruin a reviewer's impression.

That said, I hope that there are more user controls on Left4Dead than TF2 offered. Having simple things like Friendly Fire and Respawn timers locked out without modification is a sin.

And finally, Don't Forget about The Crossing either kids. It looks to have a better story and richer mechanics.

The more I've seen, the less I feel interested in Left4Dead.

The zombie's just dont seem zombie enough. All these fast running zombies that are so popular in recent horror zombies. Although I've only seen limited gameplay, the zombies seem quite .... whole. I think I'd prefer older shambling, en masse zombies, with a lot of variety in their horrifically decomposed and damaged zombie models. (decay, missing parts, yadda yadda). It's like a game about a zombie movie that could barely invest in a makeup department.

The co-op mechanic looks fun, but I dont get any sense of the AI directors ability to control pacing and create a bit of suspense.

With the Left4Dead gameplay footage, I feel like I'm just watching a game about a bunch of hyped up unarmed human npcs chasing the 4 co-op characters down in a feast or famine type way.

Roll this one back into design rework and put more zombie juice in my zombies, please!

Although, I am with Irongut on the zombie juice upping, it still looks very cool and I've been anticipating this title for a while now - mostly because a pack of us have been looking forward to zombie hunting together for a while now.

I'm stoked, this has been off my radar for quite a while until I saw the recent Gametrailers clip. I have to say, my Zombie Meter went to 11. Can't wait.

KingGorilla wrote:

Take previews with a grain of salt. Very few of them are indicative of the final product. In shooters especially, often all damage is turned off except to NPCs.

Maybe, but that's not what they did with Left 4 Dead. That Scott Sharkey quote regarding friendly fire is from a 1UP preview article that went up this week.

And finally, Don't Forget about The Crossing either kids. It looks to have a better story and richer mechanics.

Left 4 Dead is not a story-driven game in any sense, so "better story" is not difficult to achieve. Since, you know, L4D doesn't really have one. The Crossing does look very cool, but based on Arkane's track record, its mechanics will indeed be rich but poorly balanced and partially broken.

Irongut wrote:

The more I've seen, the less I feel interested in Left4Dead.

The zombie's just dont seem zombie enough. All these fast running zombies that are so popular in recent horror zombies. Although I've only seen limited gameplay, the zombies seem quite .... whole. I think I'd prefer older shambling, en masse zombies, with a lot of variety in their horrifically decomposed and damaged zombie models. (decay, missing parts, yadda yadda). It's like a game about a zombie movie that could barely invest in a makeup department.

The co-op mechanic looks fun, but I dont get any sense of the AI directors ability to control pacing and create a bit of suspense.

With the Left4Dead gameplay footage, I feel like I'm just watching a game about a bunch of hyped up unarmed human npcs chasing the 4 co-op characters down in a feast or famine type way.

Roll this one back into design rework and put more zombie juice in my zombies, please!

I'm fairly certain that the backstory to this is that it's a virus or bacteria strain á la 28 days later and Legend where the people aren't zombies in the traditional sense of being raised from the dead. Technically they never died.

Irongut wrote:

The more I've seen, the less I feel interested in Left4Dead.

The zombie's just dont seem zombie enough.

They could be replaced with walking mannequins for all I care. The appeal of this game is a ground-up co-op shooter that goes about solving a ton of the shortcomings of other co-op games. The fact that the enemies are zombies is purely surface element stuff.

Actually, that walking mannequin idea wouldn't be so bad. Episode 1 of the new Dr. Who, anyone?

The more I've seen, the less I feel interested in Left4Dead.
The zombie's just dont seem zombie enough. All these fast running zombies that are so popular in recent horror zombies. Although I've only seen limited gameplay, the zombies seem quite .... whole. I think I'd prefer older shambling, en masse zombies, with a lot of variety in their horrifically decomposed and damaged zombie models. (decay, missing parts, yadda yadda). It's like a game about a zombie movie that could barely invest in a makeup department.

Yeah, watching the latest video, I couldn't help feeling that they were going down the wrong path. The speed and twitchiness made it look like a B grade multiplayer shooter from three or four years ago, like Counterstrike reskinned with zombies.

But, what bothered me more than anything else was the canned animations. Zombies should disintegrate in messy, gory ways with their ability to move and attack degrading as they get shot to pieces. The video showed zombies slumping over like just like dead soldiers in a WWII shooter.

I'd really like to see them revise the game to use GTA4's Euphoria character animation engine. It would be perfect for a game like this - properly modelled locational damage with proper interpretation of physical forces acting on limbs and bodies and an animation system that can intelligently adapt to complex environments.

Instead of just spraying bullets until a damage meter fills up, imagine facing a squad of zombies in a hallway, shooting out the legs of a couple of zombies in front causing the rest of the zombies to then trip and fall over their struggling bodies. I think it would offer much deeper and more tactically interesting gameplay.

Perhaps I'm falling into the trap of wanting to play the game in my head rather than the game the designers are trying to build.

Duoae wrote:

Ugh! I almost had to stop watching that video... the teamwork was so poor! The number of times there was an audio cue (like someone choking and being lifted off the ground) and the rest of the team ignoring it was so annoying... not to mention the guy we're watching running off all the time. :/

Seriously. That was the worst teamwork I've ever seen. I can't stand watching someone play hero while the others die around him.

I was highly interested in this game but the latest video was a turn off for me. Why is it so fast paced? It was a twitch fest and not once did the pacing slow down a bit. And with the way the "zombies" move, the players in the video were literally just runnin' n' gunnin' the entire time. It seems like playing in a tactical way would be impossible.

Valve should take a few hints from Resident Evil Outbreak IMO.

Watched the video yesterday, and must admit, I am still all in. I love the FF system they've implemented and the reliance on teammates to patch you up is an outstanding idea. The 28 Days Later Zombies don't phase me and I pretty much expect a mod for Dawn of the Dead Zombies at some point. Still, the attacks where they jump you and start ripping at you until someone pulls them off you was pretty cool. The safe room for ammo and health is a cool idea as well.

The exploding zombies were a nice touch to the whole thing.

This video from IGN makes the game look a lot better. I have a feeling this will be a case of the game being as good as the people you're playing with.

Irongut wrote:

The more I've seen, the less I feel interested in Left4Dead.

The zombie's just dont seem zombie enough. All these fast running zombies that are so popular in recent horror zombies. Although I've only seen limited gameplay, the zombies seem quite .... whole. I think I'd prefer older shambling, en masse zombies, with a lot of variety in their horrifically decomposed and damaged zombie models. (decay, missing parts, yadda yadda). It's like a game about a zombie movie that could barely invest in a makeup department.

The co-op mechanic looks fun, but I dont get any sense of the AI directors ability to control pacing and create a bit of suspense.

With the Left4Dead gameplay footage, I feel like I'm just watching a game about a bunch of hyped up unarmed human npcs chasing the 4 co-op characters down in a feast or famine type way.

Roll this one back into design rework and put more zombie juice in my zombies, please!

Have you played the Half-Life mod Brainbread? Sounds sort of like what you're looking for. A few summers ago, I played it a lot. The only problem with slow zombies is how easy they are to kill. They're working on a source port that might actually be worth checking out.

I think I'll have to check out braindead. Thanks for the tip subaltern

0kelvin, that gameplay video does give a better impression of the co-op gameplay. Thanks for pointing it out.