Just Cause, Quake Wars, Band of Bugs, Manhunt 2 Goes AO, Game Pricing, Thread of The Week, Emails and more!
We have a very timely show this week as we tackle game pricing and AO rated games. Sean Sands has some lovely things to say about Rockstar, a ton of emails and oh, much more!
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The Links
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Just Cause
Manhunt 2
Band of Bugs
Threads of the Week:
1) GWJ Pile of Shame - Hemidal
2) Mission Improbable: Clear the Pile - Hemidal
Intro/Outro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks
"Fallen Idol" Benoit Casey - 0:22:41
"Luna Machine" Benoit Casey - 0:49:49
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It's just the fact that it's tied to the goverment in a more tangible way than the US version in. The "threat" of government intervention in the States that got the industry to self-regulate doesn't set off our "Down with King George!" kneejerks to the same extent that an actual act of Parliament does.
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
So Nintendo doesn't say you can't play AO games on their console. Just that they won't license developers to make AO games for their console. Which is something you can weigh when deciding if you want to buy their console. Have Sony or MS made that same decision?
If AO restriction was actually a government ban, you wouldn't be able to buy AO games for the PC through any kind of distribution, whether it's online or brick-n-mortar. Consoles, on the other hand, suffer from requiring licensing.
Certis: Quintin is both smart and attractive.
Fedaykin98: Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!
Yonder: It's weird to say this, but Quintin Stone may be the wisest person here.
If you can't license it then the disc won't be pressed for sale, no?
FWIW, it took me about 6 or 7 episodes before I could always pick out the voices correctly.
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Great show guys, The Dr. Phil show rocks! Maybe someone can write in to him about WoW addiction and then Edwin can be on the show!
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Everything else: Braehole
Oh, let me. I'll kick him in the balls like he deserves.
Precisely. The BBFC is tasked by the government explicitly (and I believe funded) to rate media. Those ratings are then used in the enforcement of Brittish law.
The ESRB (love or hate) is like the National Association of Securities Dealers -- NASD is not an arm of the government, it's supported by its membership, and if you don't think that matters, you should have seen what happened 20 years ago when non-NASD, non big-board markets started showing up.
Self-regulation works. You may not like the fact that commercial entities -- in this case retailers, publishers and platform makers -- are all colluding on what is effectively a ban, but the alternatives are far, far worse. In the absence of self regulation, modern governments don't ignore regulation, they make it statutory.
At least here the interested parties can all get together (literally) in one room, inside a formal board structure, and change the process, change the rules, alter the guidelines, etc.
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If Elysium's ET:Quake Wars player nick is, in fact, Elysium, then he TK'd me on Friday as a GDF engie just as I was about to complete the EMP. Probably at about the time you were discussing Strogg vs Human time conversions.
I'll stand up for the game, as I've had more fun with that one Beta map than any shooter I've paid for in the last 2+ years. I had a long term romance with both Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer, and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, so the game play is quite familiar to me. It's far more strategic & tactical than the BF series, but the gameplay speed is super fast ala typical Quake MP games. That combination may not sit well with some who want this game to fit other conventions, but it hits the spot for me. This is very much a Beta. The devs have already responded to feedback in the forums and although they haven't released a patch as of yet, they claim to have already patched their internal code.
Also, the Beta's graphics can't be placed into High mode using the menu in the Beta. You've got to add a command line entry (r_megadrawmethod 0) in an autoexec.cfg file in the games user directory. This won't be the case in retail, but if you want to check things out, follow this link: http://community.enemyterritory.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3552.
I believe I was playing under ElysiumGWJ, but it does sound like something I could have accidentally done.
The thing about smart people is they seem like crazy people to dumb people -- Thing I saw on the Internet
The real explanation for rabbit's fascination with Tomb Raider is that he was staring at Lara's ass animation.
I wish you guys would stop encouraging him.
EvilHomer3k wrote:You are an evil, evil person.
Baron Of Hell wrote:YOU VILLAIN!
Rockstar IS a blight on the gaming industry, and they must be stopped in our lifetime before they kill again.
I think Gaald nailed the pricing issue, that big budget titles are in an arms race of sorts that could bankrupt the companies who play the "biggest is best" game.
"Once you can accept the universe is matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy." -- Albert Einstein
Yeah, I was just being nitpicky there. Still, as far as I know that's not a decision that the other console makers have made.
Certis: Quintin is both smart and attractive.
Fedaykin98: Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!
Yonder: It's weird to say this, but Quintin Stone may be the wisest person here.
What other console makers? All three say no to AO games.
Example of a game "the man" wanted to sell millions of but didn't: Viva Pinata
Elysium, I think you should take a challenge and play Bully, and then revist your comment about whether Rockstar is a blight. Anyone who enjoyed quality "sandbox" games like Crackdown and Mercenaries owes a debt of gratitude to Rockstar and GTA.
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But Rabbit, wordsmythe, Elysium, everyone else.
You talk about the differences ... but in practice have there been any cases that have been different in the rating situation? Ive not heard of any. IMO, neither one is better than the other and this argument has turned into something i didnt originally intend it to.
Frankly it smells of "railing against the man".
You like your way of doing it... i dont care either way. Im more bothered by the fact that the US has a rating which no one will stock... but calls it a rating a not a ban because "its a free martket" and god forbid we ban anything in name and not in practice.
I dont think we can progress further in this discussion tbh.
*Sorry for the lack of apostraphes sometimes firefox decides that the designated key is instead assigned to ctrl-F. Dont know why.
Bacon is a goodjer in your pants.
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I just hate the fact that someone else tries to tell me what and what not to buy. If I want to buy a horror book written in the I form where the I does a killing spree of 5 billion people, I should be able to. If I want to see a movie where a girls eyes is ripped out of her socket and then thrown to the dogs, I should be able to. And if I want to play a game where you can rip somebody's balls off with a pincer by flipping the Wiimote, I should be able to. It's my money, it's my time, and nobody should have a say in how I spend it.
About gaming pricing. I think with lower prices will come bigger sales. ShadowRun on 40 dollar would definitely sell more copies than it does now. The question is, with those extra sales, will the profit be more, then selling less units on 60. I think it will in a lot of cases, especially where a game is just good, and not great. But I'm no economic wizz in any case, so if anyone can teach me how wrong I am, please do so.
I don't watch, I interact!
Well, I'm no economic wizz either but it seems obvious to me that a game with such a focus on online multiplayer, like Shadowrun, would do better with more people playing it.
If it can't get to a critical mass level then there's a good chance that people trying the game out won't get a good taste of what the game's about.
A lower price would lead to more players which would lead to more players, etc, etc, etc.
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Hi, short term reader, first time poster.
It seems that some people have got this story second or third hand , so here is the primary source for the BBFC rejection of Manhunt 2: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/news/press/20070619.html
"BBFC's recent games research" refers to http://www.bbfc.co.uk/news/stories/20070417.html which is too long to quote, but the research is surprisingly positive about the neurological state of gamers, and it suggests that people playing games actually have a firmer grip on reality vs fantasy than people watching a movie. Which makes it odder that they should use it as a justification to reject Manhunt 2, which would seem to run counter to the research's conclusions.
We need to distinguish between certification and censorship. When the BBFC rate a game high, they are trying to protect children from experiencing it. Here they seem to be rejecting the fundamental ethos of the game, rather than any particular scene, and saying that it is too extreme for over-18s to play too. I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome of this dictates BBFC policy for the next 10 years. I have not played Manhunt, but it seems odd that it, in the light of the BBFC's own research, that it would have a worse effect than Saw or Hostel (which I have also not seen, btw).
BGG GR
Well I hope that Rabbit's dismissing of Quake Wars was more due to his lack of interest in the genre rather than a real opinion. Frankly it was kinda embarrassing listening to him dismiss a game after 2 hours of play... ouch.
Any game like this.. especially the sequal to ET your going to have mass confusion at first.. I remember day 1 of ET's release NO one had a clue what to do on any of the maps.. most people milled about aimlessly and rounds lasted forever because only a few people actually cared about trying to figure out the objectives and get them completed.
My first week in ET was painful.. I got killed constantly.. rarely helped on any objectives.. but eventually I figured out the maps and got better.. then by week 2 I found some good servers with a fairy stable set of players and things really began to gel. By week 3 I was completely addicted.. I played almost nightly for 10 months... and though still rough around the edges (for many of the same reasons like ET) Quake Wars has that same feel.. its simply going to be flat out awesome on good servers with good players..
I hope the other maps are better for the vehicles.. because I'm still not sure about them.. but forget Graphics.. and Forget Sound.. its ALL about the gameplay.
This aint BF2.. never was going to be... and never should it be.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Delivering Truth while the 10% deliver lies.
niche - please pronounce correctly
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...
it is pronounced nich not neesh
It is pronounced neesh in the UK. The second citation in dictionary.reference.com lists the pronunciation as (nÄch, nÄ“sh). The etymology is listed as being from the old French nicher/nichier, which would certainly be pronounced with a "sh" sound rather than the "ch" sound from church.
BGG GR
I second DudleySmith on that one. Pronouncing "Niche" as "Nich" is just an Americanization
of the word:
http://w3.granddictionnaire.com/btml...
I find myself in agreement about ET:GW. The game is good, but going up against experienced players with no-one to hold your hand is a tricky proposition. I think Eylsium was probably playing Lumines or something at the same time as Quake Wars
Do agree on the sounds and graphics though, they gotta fix that crap.
892 condescending Certis quotes out of a possible infinity - Elysium scores Torchlight lower than expected.
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That's what I was asking about earlier and got no answer.
The reality is, though, that these days, the companies' names and brands are associated with every title that plays on their system. Allowing AO games opens them up to the kind of Thompson-esque attacks mostly reserved for Rockstar.
If it really matters to consumers that they be able to play AO games (what few there are), there's always the PC.
Certis: Quintin is both smart and attractive.
Fedaykin98: Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!
Yonder: It's weird to say this, but Quintin Stone may be the wisest person here.
I don't like anyone telling me what I can and can't do either, but to say that a game getting an AO rating from the ESRB is the same as a government banning something is ridiculous!
A government ban is called censorship and we should always be on guard against it. Console makers saying they won't let AO rated games sell on their systems is free market. They make the consoles they have the right to say what games they want on their systems and what games they don't. Games affect the image of the console maker just as much as the developers. It's one of the big reasons the video game market crashed back in the day when there was no control. Apparently no one wants AO games selling on their systems, and I assume it's partly because of image and partly because they know it would hardly sell if the big retail chains won't carry the games in their stores.
Yes effectively we end up with the same result because the developer has been hamstrung by the retailers and the console makers but the way we ended up there is what's important. In this case the industry, in North America at least, is protecting itself instead of being told what they can and can't do by the government. Like it or not that's a good thing. The ESRB isn't saying we can't play the game they are saying only adults can. No one in North America said Rockstar can't release the game, at least no one who matters. Rockstar could still sell the game by digital distribution or smaller independent stores who don't care about what a game is rated at, and the PC is still an option for release but Rockstar probably doesn't want to limit the game they spent millions making so they probably won't.
If you can't see the difference there than I doubt I will ever be able to convince you otherwise. Good discussion though, I am glad we brought it up on the podcast.
Edit: Doh! Quintin posted part of my argument before I could, stupid life getting in the way before I could post!
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You did a more thorough job though.
Certis: Quintin is both smart and attractive.
Fedaykin98: Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!
Yonder: It's weird to say this, but Quintin Stone may be the wisest person here.
I fully understand the motivation, but the idea that a psuedo-government agency has to approve a game before it can be sold makes my fists clench. Duoae, you might just not understand the inherent American distrust of the government. It's sort of a tradition -- and perhaps a mild psychosis.
And in case someone wanted my take on "niche": Both pronunciations are valid, though the "French" pronunciation makes you sound more like you know a thing or two about etymology. Guess which one I use!
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
Actually, I was doing quite well at the game. Please don't mistake my tepid interest as ineptitude. I was regularly ranked in the top three on my team in XP and kills (don't really care for playing support classes). I'm also not looking for this to be BF2, and I don't think I suggested such on the podcast. That said, the game just left me a little cold. It's certainly a work in progress, but it felt ... flat.
However, as I also said in the podcast, I think the fundamentals are in tact. Hopefully they get the time they need to properly polish.
The thing about smart people is they seem like crazy people to dumb people -- Thing I saw on the Internet
Sorry, didn't mean to embarass you (grin).
See, here's the thing. I love squad based FPS games. I chunked tons of time, just tons, into 1942 and Team Fortress. Battlefield 2 I still have a love/hate relationship with. When everything works, and I get a decent squad to play with, I love it. It sucks (for me) pubbing. I don't WANT ET to be BF2.
I don't remember exactly what I said, but here's the reality: yes, after 2 hours, the game went from a first-day must-buy to a wait-and-see. I spent the first hour of my experience with the game just trying to get it to run on my spiffy dirt standard new computer. After that, I pubbed perhaps another two hours, and while I get what the game is trying to do that's fun and interesting, I was frankly underwhelmed. Perhaps I expected too much.
Unfair for a beta? Sure, I admit that. I completely fall into the trap of assuming that a fileplanet-beta is as close to a demo as we're likely to get before launch. *Could* the game be great? Sure, it's got some compelling gameplay elements that, theoretically, could make for a great team game.
Snap judgment? Perhaps. But the reality is I have 5-10 hours to game on an average week, 10-15 on a REALLY good week. There are, generally, 3-4 games I feel like I either want to play, or *should* play for other reasons, every single week, when I consider the backlog. I didn't see anything in ET that so blew me away that I felt I simply had to dedicate a week or two to the learning curve.
Will I be revisiting it after release? Sure. Hopefully it will be competing with brain space with TF2. Very different games, but for me, scratching the same itch.
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I have to say one last time... it's not a government agency... no matter how much you want it to be... Like i said, you guys are making it into an argument that was never started.
Bacon is a goodjer in your pants.
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