[Help] Coffee Table PC but NOT Laptop?

So, the wife's laptop blew up this week. We were talking about replacements, and she doesn't really *need* a laptop, but wants to be able to play/work in the living room with me.

I had the idea of a small PC with an extra long monitor cable and wireless keyboard/mouse, an LCD that, instead of using the factory stand, we frankenstein something smaller and stabler, and DIY some sort of sleeve to put the monitor away. "Putting it away" is the main plus for a laptop as a living room/coffee table PC. Company's coming or you're cleaning up, close the lid, stash it somewhere.

So, would it be feasible and as cost-effective(or better) to build/buy some little Shuttle-alike, wireless keyboard/mouse combo, and take the stand off my 19" LCD and make some sort of picture-frame-type "stand" to give Laptop compactness in use as well as laptop stowability?

How long can a monitor cable be without degradation?
How well do wireless keyboards and mice work? What's the range?

The only other idea I had was that it'd be really neat to have a super-lightweight thin-client type laptop that was essentially a satellite for a "real" PC elsewhere in the house, like a mainframe dumb terminal, but as a gamer, you'd want to be sure you can go full-screen on the client system at a good resolution.

Anyway, what sort of living room PC could I build for pretty cheap, how far away can I be from it while having the monitor up close to the user(*like* a laptop, but not a laptop), etc. ?

What types of games exactly?

I know someone who recently put together a little micro-atx box for like 500$ runs crysis med-high. I will try to find the specs on newegg from his wishlist. Sorry I can't be of more help with the cables and wireless peripheral stuff.

I think this is what you want.

Of course, this is what you would end up with.

She doesn't play shooters, but does like RTS and TBS that have 3d worlds. Zoo Tycoon 2, Civ 4, etc.
Also, Sam & Max, LotRO, etc.

Edit: Take THAT, Apple! Brilliant.

That's very do able.
It would be even easier if you put the box underneath the table, which would be covered on all sides.
The table could also have drawers for the kb and mouse.

You could build it into the coffee table. All you'd need is to put the computer inside of the coffee table and then build a hinged lid. You open the lid to play and close it when you're done.

Basically, you take a coffee table with storage. Remove the top and then put hinges on one side so you can open it. Finally, you add a second top to make it usable again.

You could also make a MS surface type computer. In this case you simply cut out a section of the coffee table, cut a channell in the edge of the cutout, and then mount an lcd underneath (make sure to angle the lcd towards the couch). Then to 'put it away' you simply cover it with a table cloth/candle holder. Simple and easy. Even easier would be to get a glass top table (no cutting necessary). We did this in a geology classroom to the desk surface in the front of the room and it worked pretty well.

Well it might be out of your budget, but I'd say look at an iMac. I use mine on my coffee table all the time. An iMac only has one power cord (like the lcd in your proposed project) and is easily moved around the house. IT's got enough power to play the games that you mentioned. The low-end 20" iMac is $1k on Apple's refurb site.

Or I'd just get a laptop again as it seems like portability is your big concern.

Yeah, I didn't mean to make a PC out of a table, or to build one into a table.
What I meant was, almost a laptop, but not a laptop. Easy to put away, not a big project to get set up.
And not a month of Sundays DIY project. I'm more Tim Taylor than Bob Vila.

Oh, well I want my computer that is built into a table and the screen folds up.

duckilama wrote:

Yeah, I didn't mean to make a PC out of a table, or to build one into a table.
What I meant was, almost a laptop, but not a laptop. Easy to put away, not a big project to get set up.
And not a month of Sundays DIY project. I'm more Tim Taylor than Bob Vila.

UMPC my friend.

http://www.umpcportal.com/products/p...

Nice, but it still has to be gameworthy.
Basically, all the "sitting on my couch with my laptop, playing games" oomph and all the "ok, I'm done, *put it away where it's not seen*" compactness, but just not necessarily in a laptop form factor.

How long can a monitor cable be? How far away can a wireless mouse and keyboard operate?

I guess I am basically thinking about trading off having a power cable draped across my living room ***during use** for having a monitor cable draped across my living room ***during use***.

Is Shuttle still the king of itty bitty form factor PCs, not counting little surf boxes?

Shuttle makes many brands and models. There are also numerous SFF micro atx cases like the Apevia X Qpack. You basically buy the case and a standard micro atx motherboard. Unlike the Shuttle, they're completely upgradable. They are a bit bigger than the shuttle however.

The length of the monitor cable is going to be, in part, determined by how good the cable is. If you're using the analog vga connector you'll lose signal as you get longer. If you use a decent cable, though, you can go pretty far. We have some classrooms at work with 100' cables on a splitter. Granted, the splitter costs about $300 but you likely won't be splitting your signal. An extension cord is significantly cheaper than a good vga/dvi cable.

Not many keyboards have very long range. Logitech's diNovo has pretty good range but it's a bit expensive. I would suggest a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. RF units are cheaper but the range is usually pretty short. If the computer is going to be stored inside the coffee table then a cheap rf keyboard should work fine. We use gyration keyboards in our classrooms and they work great but they would probably not make good gaming keyboards/mice.

duckilama wrote:

How long can a monitor cable be?

Whether it is VGA or DVI will make a difference. VGA usually starts to have problems around 12-15' without some sort of "repeater". The video card, cable quality, and environment noise all go into the equation.

Wireless keyboards/mice depend largely on interference. Our MS Bluetooth Elite setup in our conference room works well at around 25-30'. The previous Logitech IR worked to around 15-20', unless you put the receiver anywhere near the plasma, in which case it stopped working entirely.

EDIT: And wireless key/mouse stink for FPS type gaming.

MOST wireless kb/mice stink. Mice have gotten significantly better and keyboards have improved. There are some out there that are quite good. I use a logitech MX610 wireless for FPS gaming and it works fine.

I *think* the monitor I have is DVI only, so I'd be looking to do DVI-DVI, ideally.

I don't want the computer *in* the coffee table, but I'd like to be able to easily set the monitor and keyboard/mouse *ON* the coffee table for use without moving the PC from its "home" somewhere "out of sight".

I have a 32" LCD TV, but probably wouldn't put the PC next to it.

IR might be problematic if the PC is really "out of sight", no?

She doesn't FPS, so that's no big deal. Stuff like Civ, Caesar, * Tycoon, Lord of the Rings Online, Sam & Max, etc.

I've fallen into the upgradability trap. I bought a Socket 754 mobo w/ AGP. I don't even know what CPUs to buy now, since AMD has moved on so far from there. It'd be easier to buy new stuff all around than upgrade, I think.

I'm not buying the upgradability thing, because I don't buy PCs often enough to make upgrading an attractive alternative. I get left behind, mostly, especially since I buy bang-for-buck, not top-of-line, so the lifespan is already shorter, usually.

Aaaaanyway, it sounds like a SFF PC like Shuttle/QPack with bluetooth inputs and a longer DVI cable might get me where I want to be. I wish there was such a thing as wireless monitors.

Sorry ducki, hell of a day ...

DVI length:

The specified standard limit for maximum DVI cable length is 5 meters. However, the actual maximum cable length depends on cable quality and signal bit-rate; some manufactures claim that their high quality cables can even run up to 15 meters (50 feet) at maximum bit-rate without loss of signal.

There are also signal repeaters. So it depends on cable quality and resolution/refresh.

duckilama wrote:

IR might be problematic if the PC is really "out of sight", no?

Most IR setups have a receiver on the end of a six to ten foot USB cable. They are usually fairly small. Our conference room box is in a closed cabinet, and the IR receiver was placed on a countertop with the cable running through a hole in the side.

Thanks. So what are meters in real world measurements? Is that like a cubit?

I kid, I kid.
15 feet should be plenty of length.

duckilama wrote:

Thanks. So what are meters in real world measurements? Is that like a cubit?

I kid, I kid.
15 feet should be plenty of length.

Cubits, the new official unit of lenght of the gwj tech forum, e.g. "My 8800gtx is a full cubit long!"

Follow up? How is the project ducki?

Still in the thinking stage.
Dell temporarily replaced her 7900 GS Go with an ATI 1400 (WTF? What a crap replacement.) but the 7900 finally came in after she carpetbomb emailed most of the people on their 10-K.
Tech's coming out tomorrow to replace it.

But a non-laptop would be a better solution, IMO.
I think it'd be neat to actually figure out how to get the resolution right for running games on my 32" LCD tv and get a wireless 360 controller and play Sam & Max laid back with a 360 controller on a nice TV screen.

Aaaaanyway, we're still thinking what we're going to do.

I demand that DuckiDeva appears here in person rather than talking through proxies!

I would love to try to build something like this. I hope for build photos and more info as the project continues.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

MOST wireless kb/mice stink. Mice have gotten significantly better and keyboards have improved. There are some out there that are quite good. I use a logitech MX610 wireless for FPS gaming and it works fine.

Actually, no. They still haven't gotten past the annoying delay, but to each their own. Note: used the 610 wireless. Delay is still there with that one too, along with every other logitech wireless product. Microsoft fares no better.

duckilama wrote:

I think it'd be neat to actually figure out how to get the resolution right for running games on my 32" LCD tv and get a wireless 360 controller and play Sam & Max laid back with a 360 controller on a nice TV screen.

That really shouldn't be that hard as long as your TV has a spare VGA or DVI/HDMI input. If it's an HDMI you just need a DVI to HDMI cable. You can get one for a couple bucks on monoprice. Assuming your TV's 720p just set your computer to 1280x720 (or potentially 1280x768, depending on which of the various weird 720p resolutions screens tend to use) and you're all set.

As far as the inputs and video. I think that you would have much better results, assuming you have the typical 10 or so square foot living room, to cleverly place the PC box, maybe with a 6 foot VGA cable into the TV, and then an extension cable for the KB/M or go wireless(but if you are more than 5 feet from the desktop, you have problems.

I will say this, if need be extend the USB signal further, not the VGA. Because VGA is an analog signal, it will degrade the further that you move. If you get some good USB extension cables for the input devices(digital signal), making sure that they are well shielded, you will get better results with a longer lead.

A pricier option is to put the PC in the Home Theater and using Bluetooth mouse and keyboards. The signal will get further, and degrade less(no lag), but Bluetooth components are expensive.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

I demand that DuckiDeva appears here in person rather than talking through proxies!

Second.

Speaking of HTPC HID peripherals, Logitech's new diNovo Mini product seems to be the best solution so far.

IMAGE(http://www.logitech.com/repository/620/jpg/5820.1.0.jpg)

Broke and destitute need not bother, as it is priced at $149 MSRP.

Man that thing is tiny. Don't let the picture fool ya.

I think MS should turn the 360 controller with keypad into the same thing.