Xbox Live Marketplace DRM Issues Catch-All

I'd be willing to be that's the case. It's been about 90 for me and I still can't.

I'm done with the 360. I called saturday about seeing what could be done to get my xbox live games to work offline on my NEW 360 elite. I was told they would only help me if I still had my refurbished 360, and would only help me with that console. I wasn't liking what Francis had to tell me so I asked to speak to his supervisor. Christine wasn't any better. Somehow I was wrong in buying a new console. That someone could be playing those games on my account offline on the refurbished. Not that they were accusing me of that mind you! Never mind that I formatted it, and gave it to a friend back home. A single parent who couldn't afford it. Never mind that I talked them into going gold, and buying some of the same xbox live games I had so we could play together. Thus gaining them a new customer. I had planned on buying 360's for all of my DnD buddies back home in anticipation of Blood Bowl coming out.

I haven't done this since I was a child, but it felt wonderful!

IMAGE(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/brizahd/DSC00080.jpg)

My only regret is I didn't think about donating it all to gaming for soldiers. I guess I'll donate some other non ms stuff.

Brizahd wrote:

A photo of rage-induced insanity

That's a lot of money there, dude.

Insanity, perhaps. As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. If (god forbid) my 360 dies and I get put through the ringer like many others are, I'd possibly be inclined to do something like that. The only thing that would stop me is the knowledge that there would be some trade-in value for a PS3.

nsmike wrote:
Brizahd wrote:

A photo of rage-induced insanity

That's a lot of money there, dude.

True, but I've wasted more on gambling, and strippers. Not that that justifies it, guess it just shows I'm no good with my money.

DSGamer wrote:

The only thing that would stop me is the knowledge that there would be some trade-in value for a PS3.

I... well... that actually doesn't sound bad. It never blipped past my mind. Dangit...

Heck, I would've bought that hard disk from you.

DSGamer wrote:

The only thing that would stop me is the knowledge that there would be some trade-in value for a PS3.

SOME trade-in value? Hell, with all of the games, the controllers, and the system there, he could've gotten a PS3 and at least two games.

Such waste angers me.

nsmike wrote:

Such waste angers me.

Sorry to make you angry, but I would still do it again. It isn't like I'm made of money. I work in retail as stock lead. I'm mad at microsoft because there has to be a better way to handle this. With talk of the recession whats going to happen when I might lose my job, and have to cut corners. Maybe the internet will have to go? If so I'd have a harddrive full of trial games and demos.

I'm not pirating xbox live arcade games, but because people could be or are I'm being punished as well. This is like when I was at Ft.Stewart in the army and they started punishing the whole company whenever a soldier got a DUI. We'd lose our next few off days, and have to stage a funeral service as if they died. It made me mad cause I made a conscientious choice to do whats right, and it didn't matter. By punishing me it doesn't just make me mad at the people doing wrong it makes me mad at the people lumping us all together.

Anyway I'm going to mail my 360 back to Microsoft to show my disgust. There is a forklift at work and I think I'll run over it a few times. See how small of a box I can make it all fit in.

Brizahd wrote:
nsmike wrote:

Such waste angers me.

Sorry to make you angry, but I would still do it again. It isn't like I'm made of money. I work in retail as stock lead. I'm mad at microsoft because there has to be a better way to handle this. With talk of the recession whats going to happen when I might lose my job, and have to cut corners?

Oh, I don't know. Sell it all and buy groceries?

Grumpicus wrote:

Oh, I don't know. Sell it all and buy groceries?

That is what my body is for.

nsmike wrote:

Such waste angers me.

My wife agrees with you by the way.

Brizahd wrote:

I'm not pirating xbox live arcade games, but because people could be or are I'm being punished as well. This is like when I was at Ft.Stewart in the army and they started punishing the whole company whenever a soldier got a DUI. We'd lose our next few off days, and have to stage a funeral service as if they died. It made me mad cause I made a conscientious choice to do whats right, and it didn't matter. By punishing me it doesn't just make me mad at the people doing wrong it makes me mad at the people lumping us all together.

Anyway I'm going to mail my 360 back to Microsoft to show my disgust. There is a forklift at work and I think I'll run over it a few times. See how small of a box I can make it all fit in.

How much Xbox live content are we talking here?

It wasn't a huge amount actually. Only 20 games, with their downloadable extra bits. Seems cliche to say it was the point of the matter, but it was. Really disapointed, and frustrated with MS since I've never had a problem with them before. Would I have done it if I only had 1 arcade title though? I don't think so.

So just a wasteful tantrum. A pebble in the ocean.

Brizahd wrote:

Anyway I'm going to mail my 360 back to Microsoft to show my disgust. There is a forklift at work and I think I'll run over it a few times. See how small of a box I can make it all fit in.

You're a brave soul, Brizahd. Let us know what MS says in response!

Here's my situation, maybe someone can help me before I spend actual money doing this:

I have a launch 360. Its tray doesn't open half the time I press it. This is the console where I've bought around 15 games and a bunch of other content. I want to give this one to my son, and I want to purchase an Elite.

I do not want to send it in to Microsoft to get fixed, because that means that my son, who also plays the games I bought for HIM with MY Xbox Live account, will not get to play them, and I will have to fork over around $150 to repurchase them on the REFURB unit they would be sending back. That's not going to happen for very obvious reasons.

So I'm assuming my only option, other than dropping the $150 to repurchase the games, is to just suck it up with a broken console, because that's where the purchases are linked.

Also, once I get the Elite, I understand there is cable/kit they provide to transfer this content. Will this be seamless, or will the DRM kick in on all my previous purchases, and
require me to sign into Xbox Live in order to play?

Edit: Nevermind, I just read all the previous points, and Microsoft can kiss my ass if they think I'm springing for an Elite until they get their sh*t dealt with.

I remember calling them a year or so ago when my current last box got the RROD, I was on the phone for 3 hours and a several managers (hung up on several times as well), and I still never got Hexic back either like they promised.

Also, once I get the Elite, I understand there is cable/kit they provide to transfer this content. Will this be seamless, or will the DRM kick in on all my previous purchases, and require me to sign into Xbox Live in order to play?

My understanding is that if you use the transfer kit, you transfer your "offline license" to the new Elite, which would make the old box no longer able to use the content unless you were logged in to Xbox Live with the account that purchased it.

Assuming that you will always be playing your content while connected to the Xbox, here is one course of action that could work for you:

1. Buy your new Elite, and don't use the transfer kit. Your content will only be playable on this unit while connected to Xbox Live.
2. Send your old unit for repairs.
3. Go through the customer service process of having them reset the "offline licenses" for the repaired unit. This should take them about a month, but you could be one of the lucky ones who has your Xbox come back with the licenses already fixed. Be sure that you do the "redownload" method for ALL your content.
4. Give the repaired unit to your son. He will be able to use all the content on it under any user profile connected or not, as long as you have done the "redownload" method on said content.
5. Again, you will only be able to use the content on your new Xbox while connected to Xbox Live with the purchasing account.

So much work. Seriously. Can you imagine what a nightmare this becomes for average parent who has become used to taking little Johnny into Gamestop, picking up a new game for his Gamecube and then going home to play it? Seriously. Your average consumer, the Joe Shmoes that the "Arcade" version is supposedly aimed at, must just go bonkers trying to navigate this nonsense. Not only do they have a gimped system and find that out down the road, but the first time they have to deal with Microsoft customer service and hear something like the above..?

I think they'd be headed straight for Wii-ville. In other words, this is just one more hurdle that makes the 360, as a "Family Console", a complete non-starter.

Thanks Zero, that might just do the trick. As long as him and his sister are able to play the games using various profiles on the old box, I'll be happy.

If I call, will the lovely Indian support understand the phrase "reset the offline licenses" without having to delve through several levels? Is there a trick to this or just demand to talk to a manager right off the bat?

Are the new Elites shipping with the Falcon chipset?

Swat: I'm in a bit of the same boat. I would buy an elite in a heartbeat, but I need to be able to play my RockBand DLC without a net connection (I take it to parties).

Game over.

Brizahd wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:

Oh, I don't know. Sell it all and buy groceries?

That is what my body is for.

nsmike wrote:

Such waste angers me.

My wife agrees with you by the way.

I doubt she said it such a mild manner. I've done stupid things out of anger before (my friend and I took his NES and smashed it to bits and shot it, and I drowned a $10 Jaguar), but this trumps it in spades!
Why would you make little baby Gaming Jesus cry by doing such a thing?

All tongue in cheek aside, that picture made me spit milk out of my nose, sorry to laugh at your misfortune, though...

Swat wrote:

If I call, will the lovely Indian support understand the phrase "reset the offline licenses" without having to delve through several levels? Is there a trick to this or just demand to talk to a manager right off the bat?

The wording that worked for me was:

"I need you to fix my DRM licenses so that I can play downloaded content while NOT connected to Xbox Live."

Try once with the initial person. They understood me, and took me through an initial test to verify that the content hadn't already had the licenses reset.

1. Delete the item.
2. Go to the XBLM blade.
3. Go to "Account Management"
4. Go to "Download History"
5. Redownload the item
6. Test offline.

Once that didn't work, the sent me up to a supervisor to put in the license reset order.

Again, though, if they don't immediately know what you are asking for, definitely ask for an escalation right away.

rabbit wrote:

Swat: I'm in a bit of the same boat. I would buy an elite in a heartbeat, but I need to be able to play my RockBand DLC without a net connection (I take it to parties).

Game over.

Damn, I didn't even think about that. Arcade games are one thing, but crippling retail games in this fashion? Argh.

I don't believe the Elite transfer kit involves any transfer of your offline game licenses to a new unit. It only moves the content from one hd to another. The console itself is what the offline content remains linked to. Even though you have copied it from your 20gb drive to the 120gb drive of your new elite, the drm is still locked to the original pro/core unit outside of when you are logged into LIVE.

MaxShrek wrote:

.....I drowned a $10 Jaguar), but this trumps it in spades!

I don't know, there are people out there who consider killing endangered cats the equivalent of killing puppies.

Only if it's in a bag.

MaxShrek wrote:
Brizahd wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:

Oh, I don't know. Sell it all and buy groceries?

That is what my body is for.

nsmike wrote:

Such waste angers me.

My wife agrees with you by the way.

I doubt she said it such a mild manner. I've done stupid things out of anger before (my friend and I took his NES and smashed it to bits and shot it, and I drowned a $10 Jaguar), but this trumps it in spades!
Why would you make little baby Gaming Jesus cry by doing such a thing?

All tongue in cheek aside, that picture made me spit milk out of my nose, sorry to laugh at your misfortune, though...

Well I'm pretty lucky cause she is real laid back about stuff. When I told her she thought I was joking, but when she realized I was serious she was shocked. I've pretty much had a 360 the whole time we've known each other so she just couldn't believe it. Plus I had just bought the elite a week or 2 prior. In the end she said as long as I am okay with it so is she. I told her about this thread, and she mentioned that she agreed with nsmike. Anyway they're both right it was a waste. No worries about laughing at me cause I did it to myself :-p

DSGamer wrote:

So much work. Seriously. Can you imagine what a nightmare this becomes for average parent who has become used to taking little Johnny into Gamestop, picking up a new game for his Gamecube and then going home to play it? Seriously. Your average consumer, the Joe Shmoes that the "Arcade" version is supposedly aimed at, must just go bonkers trying to navigate this nonsense. Not only do they have a gimped system and find that out down the road, but the first time they have to deal with Microsoft customer service and hear something like the above..?

I think they'd be headed straight for Wii-ville. In other words, this is just one more hurdle that makes the 360, as a "Family Console", a complete non-starter.

Now wait a second. All that above hassle is intended to get one purchased copy of a game to work on two consoles simultaneously, right? Two games, one purchase. Complaining that it's a hassle to work the system so as to not have to pay for the second copy of a game is a bit disingenuous.

It's exactly that something-for-nothing mentality that gives Microsoft's draconian DRM legs to stand on. Not that I think Microsoft would take the high road if given the chance, but we are validating their solution to 3rd parties not wanting to develop Arcade titles for fear of a single sold license being distributed among friends.

No, this is the hassle you go through if you have th swap out your system (because it died) or want to upgrade to a newer shinier 360.

rabbit wrote:

No, this is the hassle you go through if you have th swap out your system (because it died) or want to upgrade to a newer shinier 360.

DSgamer's post that I qouted was posted immediately below the complex instructions on how to get Swat's offline license switched around for the purpose of playing the same game on two boxes with one license. That's what I was commenting on.

The other instructions regarding dead came later:

Zero wrote:

1. Delete the item.
2. Go to the XBLM blade.
3. Go to "Account Management"
4. Go to "Download History"
5. Redownload the item
6. Test offline.

I agree that's more complicated than it should be for repair center replacements, where they could conceivably fix the license issue before sending the box back. For upgraded boxes you're supposed to get that transfer kit shipped to you. I don't know how complicated that process is.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

So much work. Seriously. Can you imagine what a nightmare this becomes for average parent who has become used to taking little Johnny into Gamestop, picking up a new game for his Gamecube and then going home to play it? Seriously. Your average consumer, the Joe Shmoes that the "Arcade" version is supposedly aimed at, must just go bonkers trying to navigate this nonsense. Not only do they have a gimped system and find that out down the road, but the first time they have to deal with Microsoft customer service and hear something like the above..?

I think they'd be headed straight for Wii-ville. In other words, this is just one more hurdle that makes the 360, as a "Family Console", a complete non-starter.

Now wait a second. All that above hassle is intended to get one purchased copy of a game to work on two consoles simultaneously, right? Two games, one purchase. Complaining that it's a hassle to work the system so as to not have to pay for the second copy of a game is a bit disingenuous.

It's exactly that something-for-nothing mentality that gives Microsoft's draconian DRM legs to stand on. Not that I think Microsoft would take the high road if given the chance, but we are validating their solution to 3rd parties not wanting to develop Arcade titles for fear of a single sold license being distributed among friends.

If I buy my son Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for my Genesis, he can borrow it from me and play it at his Mom's house. Then, the following week, he can come and play the same game at my house. This has been the way console gaming has always worked. He is his own roaming profile.

Now, we have the same game, that is 2-4 times the price of the original, and it is NOT portable. Microsoft tells me to pay again for this. Total cost for a game that I could have had for $5 at the Flea Market? 24 bucks. Plus tax. And on top of that, if his friends come over after school and want to play Sonic, but the internet is down, have fun with the trial version kids.

It's that kind of stuff that is infuriating for me. I do love how easy it is to buy and play on a single console. But those damn Arcade games keep adding up financially. I wouldn't be as concerned if they were $1 iTunes tracks or what not, but I'm starting to pay $12+ tax for these bastards, and it's moving into the "not a splurge purchase" area lately, where dropping $30 for 2400 points or whatever is starting to hit the wallet.

I know there's way too many reasons for this system, but I don't give a flying rat's ass. If I buy something, I want it, and I don't want to have to do a voodoo dance over some spilled chicken's blood in a magic circle each time I want to play it

Just wait till we're dropping full retail $60 on this sh*t next generation, they had BETTER iron this out by then. Digital downloads are fine, but they better be snail mailing me a goddamn disc as well upon checkout.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do whatever the system will allow you to do. It's the system they put in place, and it happens to be able to allow one purchased copy to be played on two systems simultaneously. Though that goes beyond the intent of the the vendor with regards to the game license, I don't think you have an ethical responsibility not to abuse the system. However, I also don't think Microsoft is obligated to make it easy to get to that loophole as DS was implying. To make it clear here: I have no beef with what you're doing.

One disc of Sonic 2 may work on two systems, but it will not work on two systems at the same time. The transition to digital distribution allows for the possibility for semi-piracy, where one purchase can allow multiple people to play the same game at the same time without the consent of the seller. The license system in place is a comprimise between that and locking down the content to a single online account and screwing over offline systems completely. All in all I think it's a pretty decent solution now that they seem to have their ducks in a row with the replacements. Not perfect, but decent.