How to get any good at TF2... help needed

I have the game and would love to play some.
Thing is, I totally suck right now.

So, how did you guys start out?
Just join into games and start shooting?
Or do some reconnaissance first, by walking
through all the maps before hand?

Are there any n00b servers out there?

Am curious, and if anyone likes to play a bit.
I am game, just live in Europe for now

If you can stomach the horrible timezone then I can recommend playing with us on Stan's. You will get better playing there, but you might not notice it until you hit up a public server after a while and realize how easy everything has become.

If that's not doable, which I can totally understand, then I'd suggest finding another community to play with. Everything is better than random public servers. I don't have any recommendations there, but someone else might.

Other than that, listening to the dev commentary is a good idea.

Play medic for a while to learn the maps - this will give you a chance to get a feel for how things work, and you'll still be a highly valuable part of the team even if you're not killing anyone. Then graduate to another class like Soldier or Heavy. I'd avoid Spy and Sniper until you have a bit more experience with the maps.

On Stan's you can ask for help/pointers just about anytime. We're a pretty friendly bunch.

You could try the Control Point podcast. They do a feature called "reconnaissance" in some of their podcasts where they walk through a map and discuss offensive/defensive strategies, explain what usually happens, why people are doing stuff, etc.

I'd also suggest starting with a server that just sticks to one map. (They usually have "24/7 Dustbowl" or similar in the server name.) You'll get used to the layout a lot faster and knowing roughly the geography of a level makes it a whole lot easier.

thanks for the comments so far
I will be moving to Canada, this year.
So, hopefully we can play more easily then

The podcast I will definitely give a try.

Yeah, try medic to learn the maps and try not to let the really good spies and snipers on Stan's Lounge get to you.
Playing with really good players will usually make you get better faster. But if you get frustrated, there's plenty of other servers where the snipers and spies are not so insanely good.

You'll learn more playing on a "good" server than a "noob" one. We all have our noob rounds. There is some good reading on TF2 wiki but there's nothing that replaces practice. Don't worry that's what respawn is for. Do your best. Use a mic!!!! TALK to your team. Above all else, have fun, it's only a game.

Sparhawk wrote:

thanks for the comments so far
I will be moving to Canada, this year.
So, hopefully we can play more easily then

The podcast I will definitely give a try.

Whereabouts in Canada?

I like playing Engineer until I get my bearings but medic is good too.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I like playing Engineer until I get my bearings but medic is good too.

The only problem I see with Engy for complete noobness is that it's *very* easy to hang back and not really *see* the maps.

Starting out I'd go soldier. He's got enough hitpoints to last for a bit, and he is -- for the most part -- a pretty straightfoward class. Don't be afraid to just wander maps on pub servers, and don't worry about sucking at first.

Heavy is also a decent starting class, but he's slow enough that it might be frustrating.

Scouts are fun, and can get you around quickly to spy out the maps, but they're pretty fragile.

I've only been playing for a little over a month; I'm not good yet, but I am getting there. Here are a few things that might help you out...

Play on Stan's if you can. The people are nice and have a good tolerance for "noob-ness". If you get on early when there are only a couple of people, you can usually ask them to show you around a bit until more people come on. Have a good sense of humor about dying because you will...a lot at first.

Also, to learn the maps, start a local server and play around on it. Try stuff like rocket jumping and sticky jumping. Find places that you can go on the map that might be good places to go in an actual game. Use experience from playing on the maps to try out different things. And when you go back into a real game, try out some of the things you discovered in your solo time.

Try a mix of the classes to find out what suits your style. I think most of the classes are about equal in terms of survivability - the slow classes have more hit points but they are, well, slow. Fast moving classes are easier to kill but can evade better. Just depends on how you play.

Get a mic and talk to your team-mates (I need to be better at this myself...).

Watch what the good players do while you are waiting to re-spawn; you can learn a lot in 10 seconds X 30 deaths on a map

Listen to all the Control Point podcasts (skip the first one and the LAN party one if you want). The older ones had a section discussing each class, one per week, which is very helpful to gt some pointers on how to play the classes. The new ones have a section talking about maps and strategies to use on each.

Best way to get better is to play. No one on any goodjer server will really care is you spend more time waiting for the respawn counter than you do killing, and they will most likely be willing to help you get the hang of things. Also, I suggest browsing the TF2 thread. It's huge, but it's also chock full of pointers (and pictures). I've become much better at spying thanks to some of the posts in it.

I would go medic or soldier to start. If you go medic try to follow someone who is higher on the scoreboard. They probably have some experience and you'll learn more from an experienced player than an inexperienced player. Soldier is pretty straigh forward and is probably the most like other standard fps games (doom/quake/ut) so you'll be somewhat comfortable from the beginning. Scout is a decent choice because they're so fast you can run around the map pretty easily. I would avoide Engineer, Heavy, Spy, and Sniper. (Demo and Pyro are okay) Heavies have a lot of hp but they're slow and really need a medic to be effective. Until you're a good heavy, you probably won't get much in the way of healing on a pub server. (sometimes even good heavies don't get much healing on public servers)

Read through the tf2 wiki and listen to the control point podcasts. Play as much as you can.

The tricky part about playing Soldier is timing the rockets to hit where the other guy will be when the rocket hits. And to remember to aim at the feet instead of the body. If you've got experience doing this from Quake/UT, then you'll probably do okay. Otherwise, it takes practice to get it right, so you may want to pass on Soldier for now.

Agreed with previous posts. Medic is a good way to take in some scenery. I will also play scout on an empty server just to run around and look at the maps (Badlands still confuses the crap out of me). If you have FPS experience, don't be afraid to pop in as soldier, then try to follow some other folks until you know the map layout.

Play more, and you will get better. Besides, it doesn't matter how much you suck, as long as you're having fun. Well, that's what I keep telling myself.

I believe Control Point has two EU servers. Control Point servers are definitely a step up from random pubbing.

Joining Stan's on a regular basis would be the best way to learn. There is a learning curve, but it doesn't take long if you can get a good player to the side and ask him for some pointers. Jumping on the server when it first starts in the evening before teams start to fill up is the best time to get somebody to help you with the finer points of the game. Most everybody who plays on Stan's wants the competition to be fairly equal to maximize the enjoyment of the game. It will be frustrating at first, but don't give up. Continue to hammer away and things will start to become easier. I would pick one maybe two classes to play until you get the hang of them. Engineer and soldier are pretty good to start with.

Maybe some of us veterans should start some post and do a different class each week.

Just play for 12 hours a day like any self respecting gamer would.

Mex wrote:

Just play for 12 hours a day like any self respecting gamer would.

Is there any other way?

I would not join Stan's exclusively. Constantly getting beaten down by people who have been playing the game for months is not going to improve your individual play as quickly as playing on a public server and playing on Stans. You'll live longer on a public server and will come up against some players who have little or no more experience than you do. In order to get better you're going to have to get a feel for the class you're playing and it's tough to do that if you don't live very long. Stan's is great for getting tips, learning team play, and watching good players. If you're a good player, playing on Stans will make you better. If you aren't such a good player playing on Stans will make you feel like you suck. I think it's important to play on both to improve as quickly as possible.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

If you aren't such a good player playing on Stans will make you feel like you suck.

True, but it will also make you better. You just won't realize it until you play somewhere else and mop the floor with an entire enemy team.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:

If you aren't such a good player playing on Stans will make you feel like you suck.

True, but it will also make you better. You just won't realize it until you play somewhere else and mop the floor with an entire enemy team. :)

So true.

I spent the longest time in the bottom half, bottom two-thirds (at best) of Stans. One evening after work, I popped on some pubs before Stan's got going and I was in the top 3 consistently on a 32 person server.

I agree with EvilHomer3k that you should try a lot of different kinds of servers. Although I would avoid lots of custom map servers. You're better off focusing on the Valve maps until you're more comfortable with them.

If you feel like it would be helpful to run around on empty maps, hop on Stans. It's empty most of the day and you won't have to worry about people jumping on with you (although if they do, they'd probably be willing to help you rather than rape you repeatedly).

In terms of classes, Soldier and Medic can be a lot of fun without a ton of skill. I really liked Pyro in my early days, but that was in the beta. Most players now have a much better pyro defense than they did in the old days, but starting people on fire has a certain satisfaction to it that transcends your in game score.

For maps, you may want to try focusing on one map at a time. If you want to go that route, see if you can find a 24/7 CP_Well server or Granary or 2Fort. Hydro and Dustbowl are a lot of fun, but they have different versions as you play, it's hard to learn them effectively. I still don't know how to talk about either of them. I know the different set ups, but I don't remember which one is Dustbowl Cap 3 Point 2.

Just play and have fun. If you ever get any grief on Stan's, let us know. We wont tolerate it.

In terms of classes, Soldier and Medic can be a lot of fun without a ton of skill. I really liked Pyro in my early days, but that was in the beta. Most players now have a much better pyro defense than they did in the old days, but starting people on fire has a certain satisfaction to it that transcends your in game score.

Pyro's a great way to be loved, help your team, and have fun even if you suck.
If you are playing dustbowl and you see your team has no pyros, go pyro. Don't worry about pushing, don't worry about capping a point, don't worry about ANYTHING but spychecks. Give a little fire to EVERYONE on your team, and I mean EVERYONE. Doesn't matter which part of dustbowl or which team - offense or defense. There are some GREAT spies on Stan's and anything you can do for your team to mitigate them will be unbelievably helpful.

The one thing you will learn more from Stan's than on ANY pub server is TEAMWORK.
You can go rogue on a pub server and be OK because almost everyone is doing that there but most are stopped dead in their tracks by a group working as a team. To truly be successful you must work as a team. That involves communication and the ability to listen and adapt. On the times that I have been on the wrong end of a steamroll it was clear that we didn't work as team and they did.