Is there such a thing as a casual MMO?

Just a short lame rant.

Being a Gamer With a Job, I'd love to gt back into an MMO but just can't seem to justify investing the sheer time most take up. I just want a game I can pick up and put down for 30 minutes to an hour at a time- maybe only 3-4 times a week, yet is still a social, persistent world multiplayer game. Alot of ppl have suggested KoL but that's not really very multiplayer, and honestly I want decent production values, no offense to the great job the KoL team did with what they had.

I think I'm doomed

I hate to say it, but gaming in general is moving away from that. The sit down, play a little and go do other stuff model just isn't really there anymore. XBLA is bringing it back with Carcassone and Catan, but that's about it.

MMOs, by their nature, are time sinks. Leveling takes a while. Getting where you want to go takes a while. It's just how they are, a Horse & Carrot arrangement where the company gives players more things to do that they find interesting so they keep paying their monthly fee and the world goes round.

Guild Wars. I'd say it's more satisfying in 1-2 hour chunks but it's playable in less. As with any MMO finding a guild/group of friends you enjoy playing with is crucial to enjoying your experience.

Guild Wars is a fun game with great production values, fun gameplay and rules to learn (if you enjoy that), lots of character classes, no monthly fees, and has both a linear storyline (Missions) as well as more open ended exploration and short quests.

They've focused on adding more "raid-type" content in Factions and Nightfall, and from what I understand that's one of the main areas they're focusing on for the latest expansion, Eye of the North. Big dungeon-crawl events.

On top of that there's no monthly fee.
It's not a "true" MMO in the sense that you can't wander the world and run into strangers - besides towns, each area is instanced so there isn't the joy (or aggravation) of random encounters with people out in the world. It can feel a bit lonely at times, which is why having friends to explore with is extra important. And travel is simple - you can map travel instantly to any town/outpost you've been to before. The lack of random interactions stops a lot of people dead in their tracks but I didn't miss it much.
You should be able to find any of the earlier games for ~$30 or less at this point, I'm not sure what the upcoming expansion costs.

Shrike, the ultimate action-rpg (i.e. mmo-ish) games for me that match that need for casual fun are games like the Diablo franchise, Titan Quest, and the like. The downside is the lack of the social aspect. There aren't really a lot of casual-friendly mmo's out there; in all honesty, World of Warcraft is probably the most casual-friendly of them all, but you won't be able to do much in the way of instance runs or anything in 30-60 minute timeframes, not until Outland in the 60's anyway.

[edit]I tried Guild Wars, and complaints about the gameplay aside, there are two reasons I wouldn't recommend it as an mmo:

1) As Scaphism pointed out, it's not a "true" mmo (same as the upcoming Hellgate: London); you only encounter other players in hub locations (cities & the like). Otherwise you're always in instanced areas. This gets rid of griefing, but it also gets rid of a lot of social interaction.

2) Virtually all progress in Guild Wars requires a group. You can take along AI henchman, but (though maybe this changes if you buy additional expansions) they suck horribly. I also recall that for reasons I couldn't understand, finding a freaking group of players was damn near impossible. That was what finally killed the game for me.

I'm with Fars. You need to look towards standard action fare that allows for some degree of social interaction such as Diablo, Dungeon Runners, Guild Wars or even something like a fast-paced RTS or the limited persistent aspects of games like BF2142.

Hellgate Lonton is a possible semi-MMO that may be the sort of game you are looking for. Unfortunately, the nature of an pure MMO will never provide you what you are looking for.

Whats KoL?

Shrike wrote:

I just want a game I can pick up and put down for 30 minutes to an hour at a time- maybe only 3-4 times a week, yet is still a social, persistent world multiplayer game.

I agree with the Guild Wars recommendation for you. It's not a true MMO as pointed out above. But it's very friendly for casual grouping. I've posted on why I feel this way before so rather than type it all out I'll dig a link up shortly.

Copingsaw wrote:

Whats KoL?

Kingdom of Loathing.

Farscry wrote:

1) As Scaphism pointed out, it's not a "true" mmo (same as the upcoming Hellgate: London); you only encounter other players in hub locations (cities & the like). Otherwise you're always in instanced areas. This gets rid of griefing, but it also gets rid of a lot of social interaction.

IMHO the only difference is that when you're in an instance in an MMOish game, you aren't receiving "general" chat, which frankly I ignore anyway. In GW, in WoW, in LOTRO and every other game.

For all games, whether true MMO or MMOish, I think you'll be lonely unless you find a nice guild of like minded folks.

Farscry wrote:

2) Virtually all progress in Guild Wars requires a group. You can take along AI henchman, but (though maybe this changes if you buy additional expansions) they suck horribly. I also recall that for reasons I couldn't understand, finding a freaking group of players was damn near impossible. That was what finally killed the game for me.

Well, this has changed. The Nightfall expansion gives you better control over henchmen, and even more fine tuned control over "heroes" (custom henchmen).

In the old days of GW, it was hard to get through the game as certain classes if you weren't in a guild. I agree with you that early on, if you weren't a tank or a monk, and played a less understood class like Mesmer, you'd have a hard time getting through the game with the old henchmen and/or PUGs.

That's quite frankly changed now with Nightfall and the addition of heroes. But, I still think GW is at its best when played with a group of mostly humans.

Edit: The flip side of this is that I really miss henchmen and heroes in WoW. Trying to get a group together for group quests in WoW is a huge PITA. I feel like the only person that uses the LFG tool.

Ok, found a few links.

Ultimately the best course of action may be to pick up a "GW Trilogy Trial DVD" at your local EB Games for $2 and decide for yourself. (You can also get trial codes elsewhere for free but will have to download more.)

GW Pros
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/3...

Comparison to other MMOs
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/3...

Primer (dated, but generally still accurate)
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/2...

Part of your quest for the casual MMO hinges on what you want to be able to accomplish in the say hour you have to play.

A lot of MMOs out allow you to play in small chuncks of time but you can not expereince all the content if that is how you play as some of it just takes more time and usually requires groups and all that.

My current MMO, Lord of the Rings Online, you could play for 1 hour chunks doing the solo quests just fine. You would even make progress but if you were say in Bree and wanted to go to Rivendell it might take up a bunch of your time for that session which if you are ok with then you be at least there for your next time.

The same is true with WoW or EQ2. There is plenty to do in small chunks you just can not do it all and of course keep up with the Jones'.

So if you are ok with that and keep your expectations in check I think you could find what you are looking for in some of the current MMOs out there.

DevilStick wrote:

Trying to get a group together for group quests in WoW is a huge PITA. I feel like the only person that uses the LFG tool.

You nearly are - I've used it before, but mostly for instances. I've had fairly good luck with using it for those, though - only one jackhat out of the many people I've found with it.

Part of the MMO fun for me is that there are people out there all over the world, though - Guild Wars seems more like Neverwinter Nights with a graphical lobby to me. DDO is the same, really, except it adds the monthly fee to the mix. I'll say it yet again, they should have followed the Guild Wars model with it.

maladen wrote:

The same is true with WoW or EQ2. There is plenty to do in small chunks you just can not do it all and of course keep up with the Jones'.

Good point. If he doesn't mind playing mostly solo, any MMO will likely do.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Guild Wars seems more like Neverwinter Nights with a graphical lobby to me.

Sorta. Except that the lobby is a town where you run around and trade and form groups, get drunk and show off pets and whatnot. A bit more than just a lobby.

While I didn't play NWN much, I found the NWN combat system to be sloooooow. It felt too turn based to me for my taste.

WoW is faster, and GW is even faster paced still. IMHO.

Shrike wrote:

Just a short lame rant.

Being a Gamer With a Job, I'd love to gt back into an MMO but just can't seem to justify investing the sheer time most take up. I just want a game I can pick up and put down for 30 minutes to an hour at a time- maybe only 3-4 times a week, yet is still a social, persistent world multiplayer game. Alot of ppl have suggested KoL but that's not really very multiplayer, and honestly I want decent production values, no offense to the great job the KoL team did with what they had.

I think I'm doomed

When World of Warcraft was just coming out, Blizzard was flaunting how its a casual player MMO, and how "you could just login for 30 minutes, do a quest, and log out".

The remnants of that philosophy can be still observed by the fact that staying in an inn doubles xp. However the game itself strays further and further away from this approach after level 33 or so.

I was strolling through Northshire Abbey with my level 50 mage when a level 4 mage came by. After I showed off my water elemental he said "Man, I can't wait to get to level 50", to which I responded "Don't be in a hurry. Enjoy THIS while it lasts."

You can still log into WoW, run a quest or two, and log, being done in 30 min or less occasionally. The sentiment of it not being one comes from the focus people put on it being a hardcore raider's MMO.

Blizzard has done an outstanding job of balancing the casual and hardcore aspects of it; I think the Arena system is a testament to that. However, there's just so much more emphasis placed on raiding and world firsts that it gets lost in the noise.

AnimeJ wrote:

You can still log into WoW, run a quest or two, and log, being done in 30 min or less occasionally.

I do it just about every morning, while I eat cereal - some mornings I just check my auctions, but usually I do one quest or so. And that could take more like 5-10 minutes, not 30. It's just that the whole thing is so engrossing that you want to spend more like 5 hours.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

You can still log into WoW, run a quest or two, and log, being done in 30 min or less occasionally.

I do it just about every morning, while I eat cereal - some mornings I just check my auctions, but usually I do one quest or so. And that could take more like 5-10 minutes, not 30. It's just that the whole thing is so engrossing that you want to spend more like 5 hours.

Yea, but again, that's more like every MMO, and even the games market in general.

The part that's tough with WoW (and most other "true" MMOs I would imagine) is trying to play with friends, between different realms, Horde v. Alliance, the way the level system and XP works, etc.

If you're willing to play solo, any MMO or RPG would probably do. You could just idle in IRC chat to get some socialization.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

You can still log into WoW, run a quest or two, and log, being done in 30 min or less occasionally.

I do it just about every morning, while I eat cereal - some mornings I just check my auctions, but usually I do one quest or so. And that could take more like 5-10 minutes, not 30. It's just that the whole thing is so engrossing that you want to spend more like 5 hours.

Heh, I play in the mornings while I wake up over coffee.

Show me a village for a level 50 character in WoW which is akin to Redridge or Darkshire. A centralized multiple-quest hub with an inn and a gryphon ride, a few houses, and a repair guy. Where is it ? Did I miss something ? Please, partial matches do not count, and neither does the filler space that is Gadzetstan.

shihonage wrote:

Show me a village for a level 50 character in WoW which is akin to Redridge or Darkshire. A centralized multiple-quest hub with an inn and a gryphon ride, a few houses, and a repair guy. Where is it ? Did I miss something ? Please, partial matches do not count, and neither does the filler space that is Gadzetstan.

Well, Gadgetzan is level 40-45 anyway. Realistically, I'd say Aerie Peak in the Hinterlands, but I'm sure you'll write that off like Gadgetzan.

Aerie Peak was a nice reminder of what could've been but the town had barely any quests at all ! It was disappointing - I just came into town and thought, all right, finally !...

... and then the last chain quest sends me to Zul'farrak. Fantastic, "Abandon quest". I've never had the 2 hours it takes to get into Zul'Farrak, except that one time where I decided to sit it out, only to be booted out of the group 20 seconds into the game without any explanation at all. Probably because I was deemed an "instance noob" and/or my exact character behavior and configuration did not match the role i was supposed to play.

That's not what I call casual gameplay.

shihonage wrote:

Aerie Peak was a nice reminder of what could've been but the town had barely any quests at all ! It was disappointing - I just came into town and thought, all right, finally !...

... and then the last chain quest sends me to Zul'farrak. Fantastic, "Abandon quest". I've never had the 2 hours it takes to get into Zul'Farrak, except that one time where I decided to sit it out, only to be booted out of the group 20 seconds into the game without any explanation at all. Probably because I was deemed an "instance noob" and/or my exact character behavior and configuration did not match the role i was supposed to play.

That's not what I call casual gameplay.

You are being a bit extreme here. I do not doubt you had this bad expereince but not all groups or instances are like this.

You can play WoW or almost all the modern games or heck even UO in short bursts at all levels. You just have to be realistic on what you can do in a game with that sort of time.

If you are happy with doing a quest or heck even advancing a quest some in a play session then it will work. If getting on and say spending you play time one session gathering ore, then a second crafting it is acceptable to you it will work.

If you want to run instances and raid it is not going to work in general.

Heck with games like WoW and LotRO you can even PvP some and work towards earning gear/rank/titles what have you.

The problem with all these games is that people often are unrealistic in that they wish to do the same content that the hardcore/mediumcore people do and it just isn't going to work.

I would say try out some games with free trials. See if in the trial period you find that you are having fun by playing it in a way that fits your style. If you play it and have fun for 1, 2, 3, 4, or whatever month just play till it is no longer fun. If you approach it that way it will work with about all modern MMOs that are currently out.

maladen wrote:

You are being a bit extreme here. I do not doubt you had this bad expereince but not all groups or instances are like this.

Experiences, not a single experience.

shihonage wrote:
maladen wrote:

You are being a bit extreme here. I do not doubt you had this bad expereince but not all groups or instances are like this.

Experiences, not a single experience.

If you're as negative there about this as you are here, then I can understand why you'd have those kinds of issues.

On a side note, MMOs are Massive Multiplayer. They're not single player, and they're not intended to be. While I can appreciate the ease of leveling in WoW, the fact that it breeds a populace of level capped players who are largely anti-social is a very negative thing. WoW was ground breaking for this, and like some other folks, I do see it as being as much a step back as a step forward for many of the reasons you're putting forth.

Further, I think you'd have a far more enjoyable experience in WoW, not to mention any other game you play if you'd go into it with a more positive attitude, as opposed to the outright negativity and vitriol you seem to have for MMOs.

Oh and to just give an example of what is possible in an hour play in a game like LotRO.

Logged on my level 46 character which is high since level 50 is cap.

Travel to a quest location gathering some resources on the way.

Worked way into goblin camp killing Goblin chief at end to complete quest.

Find and kill named Troll I needed to complete stage of a quest.

Kill a bunch of dwarves collecting a few items for another quest. Logged for night near dwarves in wilderness to work on quest next day.

This was about an hour worth of play and while not every night would be as productive as this it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility to play like this most nights for an hour. Is that not supportive of casual play?

shihonage wrote:
maladen wrote:

You are being a bit extreme here. I do not doubt you had this bad expereince but not all groups or instances are like this.

Experiences, not a single experience.

Do not know what to tell you as I did a ton of PUGs in WoW getting one character to 68 and several to 40+ and never once was kicked from a group. Had a few that I wish they kicked me as they were that bad though.

What you are talking about here though is not anything that is a problem with the game play more so some of the individuals you may meet and in your case I guess often meet.

maladen wrote:

Do not know what to tell you as I did a ton of PUGs in WoW getting one character to 68 and several to 40+ and never once was kicked from a group.

Oh no, I was only kicked once because I only was patient enough to actually wait for a group to get assembled _once_. The multiple experiences I am referring to are the waiting times for the group, I thought I was clear about that.

AnimeJ wrote:

If you're as negative there about this as you are here, then I can understand why you'd have those kinds of issues.

Setting the the ad hominem aside for the moment, let me ask, how exactly can I be "negative" in my waiting for a group to show up ? Do the thoughts in my head resonate through the digital ether and affect how fast the people join my group ?

Now that's just silly.

Further, I think you'd have a far more enjoyable experience in WoW, not to mention any other game you play if you'd go into it with a more positive attitude, as opposed to the outright negativity and vitriol you seem to have for MMOs.

I press "jump" button a lot to express my happiness in WoW, and buff the random passersby - I am actually quite friendly in the game !

Some would say ... too friendly.

shihonage wrote:

Setting the the ad hominem aside for the moment, let me ask, how exactly can I be "negative" in my waiting for a group to show up ? Do the thoughts in my head resonate through the digital ether and affect how fast the people join my group ?

Now that's just silly.

If you took that as an attack on you, my apologies; to me it's a matter of fact statement. Every time I've ever seen you post anything about any MMO, it's full of vitriol, just like here. You largely dismiss most points out of hand. My point there, was that if you're anything like that in game, then I'm not in the least surprised. You have this constant vehemence about these things here; pointing that out, IMO, isn't terribly wrong if it's remotely accurate.

shihonage wrote:

I press "jump" button a lot to express my happiness in WoW

Ah, you would've loved Auto Assault! The jump was the closest thing it had to an emote. In town, you would jump a greeting to the person you arranged to meet, trade, then jump your thanks to them.

It's irrelevant since the game is closing, but Auto Assault was great for casual stuff. Usually you could "park" close to where some action was, or use fast inter-zone transit; if you had to travel a bit, hey, you're in a car doing (at worst) 60 mph. The thing was, driving was fun, blowing crap up along the way was fun, and destroying stuff and grey mobs still gave you materials that were useful for crafting. By comparison, WoW is the Hell of Endless Running.

Shrike, it has no 3D "production values", but Puzzle Pirates is the ultimate casual MMO. The only thing that's a time sink is a full-on pillage, which can suck up an hour or two. But if you need to leave partway through, you can be replaced, and you get a share of the gold regardless.

Dark Ages had fast travel times, and lots of things you could do with a bit of time, like do repeat quests and pray at a temple. Again, though, that's 2D.

AnimeJ - some day, you will learn not to call your opinion "fact". Possibly the same day you learn to be nice about people's new cars...:razz:

Look, everyone knows that you can solo in WoW all the way to 70. I've done tons of instances because I love them, but I'm sure no more than 10 of my 64 levels worth of XP have come from them and their related quests. You're throwing the word "fact" around every time you use MMO, but the fact is that WoW is not a forced-grouping game. It's some kind of hybrid. I think it strikes an excellent balance in a lot of different ways - for one thing, I like to play for half an hour in the morning before work, and there's no way you could get a group together and do something that required one in that amount of time.

Can't we all just get along?

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Can't we all just get along?

It's the MMO subforum...you come here with your e-peen drawn or you pay the consequences.

Or something.

Fanbois.

There are a lot of browser MMO games I check out during down time at work. Log in. Play for 10 minutes during lunch. Log off. Many of them have limited turns per day so you can't just sit there and grind away.

Urban Dead was a fun one I checked out for awhile. There are a gajillion others.