World War Z

I don't know that this would be all that unexpected for a public health professional. Treating it like an outbreak of amped up rabies would do a great job of predicting the vector.

The only part that would be unexpected would be the obviously supernatural part of it, since it defies known scientific explanation. That being the fact that the infected "dead" defy the law of thermodynamics by continuing to function at a high energy state without any energy input. In this sense, the 28 days and weeks movies make eminently more sense.

But then again, we're sitting here talking about a zombie outbreak. Ya, like that's going to happen.

See, with that attitude, we've already lost!!

Paleo, I think that if an outbreak started in a modern segment of a modernized society, you might be right in that a response would probably be appropriate and deal with the problem rapidly (if we're talking WWZ/Romero-style slow, shambling zombies). However, keep in mind that in the alternate reality of the book, the plague started in 3rd world China, and the main spreaders were ignorant rural populations. If the outbreak were to initialize in the same way as in the books, then by the time those in power learned of the scope and severity of the situation, it'd be well out of control by then.

While I expect that we'd handle the outbreak much better once we realized what we were dealing with, I don't think it'd be handled as easily as you do. Never underestimate the power of politics (imagine how the political extremists on both sides of the aisle would hamper our national response) and bureaucracy.

I wonder what system the politicians could come up with to tally... the Undead Vote. Maybe some inverse calculation based off the number of party affiliated citizens in a particular voting district that were eaten during the election.

NEWSFLASH "Tally's are in. The Undead consumed 3523 registered republican voters during the election to only 2134 Democrats, statistically expressing their clear support for the Democratic candidates. The Undead vote will be added to the Democratic popular count."

Actually maybe this would be double counting.

Irongut wrote:

I wonder what system the politicians could come up with to tally... the Undead Vote. Maybe some inverse calculation based off the number of party affiliated citizens in a particular voting district that were eaten during the election.

NEWSFLASH "Tally's are in. The Undead consumed 3523 registered republican voters during the election to only 2134 Democrats, statistically expressing their clear support for the Democratic candidates. The Undead vote will be added to the Democratic popular count."

Actually maybe this would be double counting.

I'm told that the voting dead is predominantly a Southern phenomenon.

Paleocon wrote:

I don't know that this would be all that unexpected for a public health professional. Treating it like an outbreak of amped up rabies would do a great job of predicting the vector.

Hahaha. I just started reading the book last night. You're probably not aware of this, but the "official" name given at the start of the epidemic is "African rabies".

What I fear the most about WWZ is to be one of the first to die. I would miss out on all the zombie bashing, and probably would get bashed myself. That would suck.

Does anyone know when the events at the start of the book take place? Judging by the references to the Iraq war and "recent brushfires", it seems to be several years from now. But I have yet to see any specific dates mentioned.

Koning_Floris wrote:

What I fear the most about WWZ is to be one of the first to die. I would miss out on all the zombie bashing, and probably would get bashed myself. That would suck.

Are you kidding? You'd be part of the glorious beginning of the rise of the zombie nation. Second Zombie. That's a prestigious title.

Paleo, you can borrow the book after I'm done.

That being the fact that the infected "dead" defy the law of thermodynamics by continuing to function at a high energy state without any energy input.

What do you mean, no energy input? What about braiiiins they're eatn?

I have the book and I am done with it BTW. Whomever wants it -- it's yours for say $4 S&H.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
That being the fact that the infected "dead" defy the law of thermodynamics by continuing to function at a high energy state without any energy input.

What do you mean, no energy input? What about braiiiins they're eatn?

I have the book and I am done with it BTW. Whomever wants it -- it's yours for say $4 S&H.

Let's do the math on this...

Let's assume that the average human brain contains an outrageously high 3000kcals and requires a miniscule 400kcals for the structurally comprimised zombie to consume. That's pretty darned generous if you ask me, but humor me. Let's also assume that the average zombie expends 1200kcals/day walking in large herds searching for tasty, brainy bits (that, too, is a very stingy estimate). In roughly two days of unsuccessful hunting, the average zombie will need to start dipping into their own flesh reserves. Inside a week, they will have so little left that they will no longer be ambulatory. Inside of three weeks, there won't be much muscle tissue left to move the bones around.

The only way this works is if we use Matrix math and assume that human beings are energy sources instead of net energy consumers.

WWZ zombies don't eat brains. They eat any kind of animal flesh.

Neither do they digest anything. One comment in the book suggests that if they eat enough flesh, it will...uh...exit their body and rot in their...clothing.

Robear wrote:

Neither do they digest anything. One comment in the book suggests that if they eat enough flesh, it will...uh...exit their body and rot in their...clothing.

Then.. how do they persist? They devour, but don't extract fuel from it... therefore... they should disintegrate as time continues.

Let's do the math on this...

Man, you're killing my buzz.

Zombies have mastered zero-point energy! Oh f*ck, we're screwed!

Oh, Oh

BEIJING (AFP) - Two of China's biggest lakes are under renewed attack from toxic algae that destroy plant and fish life and threaten humans in the country's latest pollution scare, state media reported on Sunday.

I was browsing this book at the bookstore recently and it seems like an amusing read. I love that it's done as an oral history. I'm going to wait until it goes into paperback, though.

I got the audio book for a drive to my parents' house last weekend. It's got a good cast and is well done, but it was abridged with a meat cleaver. I would suggest you get the book instead. Unless there's an unabridged version out there somewhere.

Azure Chicken wrote:
Robear wrote:

Neither do they digest anything. One comment in the book suggests that if they eat enough flesh, it will...uh...exit their body and rot in their...clothing.

Then.. how do they persist? They devour, but don't extract fuel from it... therefore... they should disintegrate as time continues.

My interpretation of it was that the zombie vector was bacterial or viral, feeding off the necrotizing tissue and electrically stimulating the motor cortex, causing animation. Or it could be pixies.

But anyway, I really only see zombies being a real-world threat in highly-populated, confined areas, like city centers or shopping malls, where the zombies' numbers can spread faster than the populace can adjust to it... because once you get your wits about you the zombies just aren't that much of a threat. They're slow, stupid and easily killed. Most are even falling apart of their own accord. I think Shaun of the Dead got it right: once society got over the initial shock of "WTF! ZOMBIES!" they got the problem under control rather quickly. The main character, a none-too-bright but endearing f*ck-up, even manages to keep one as a pet for a prolonged time without incident. Hypothetically, should the Inevitable Zombie Apocalypse actually occur I think it will be more of a weekend-gone-bad than an end-of-days.

I tend to agree that the military ineffectiveness in the book was pretty exaggerated. Like Yonkers. Sure I can see how the weapons they were using could have problems actually getting zombie kills, but the whole 'for the cameras' terrible planning felt unreal (damn that zombie book for feeling unreal)

Still, my favorite parts of the book were the ones with the Yonkers vet.

If I were in charge of the military against the millions, I'd want as open an area to face the zombies as possible so they're not so condensed and my killing fields would basically be tanks with small arms support. The tanks would never fire their weapons, they'd just roll over the zombies. What's a zombie going to do to a tank? Or those specialized engineering tanks, or basically anything with treads and armor like a modified bulldozer.

Sure you can't just do that in one place, but the millions of zombies are really pretty spread out. You take squads of zombie busters onto the widest highways, the biggest mall parking lots, deserts and plains and turn them into killing fields where the horde can be thinned down to something an infantry division can engage.

And yes, I do believe the part in Dead Rising where you take a truck under the mall to kill thousands of zombies was the most fun part of the game.

The whole linked-in warrior thing was hilariously realistic to me. Though I can imagine commanders would mostly ensure that the information flow would be more strictly controlled than depicted, the ability of the system to spread fear like a virus is something I wonder if the real world counterparts have some kind of contingency for.

Okay. I'm reading through the book right now and am struck by how extraordinarily well-equipped my own little suburban Waco shack is for an impending zombie outbreak. Aside from the many firearms, my melee weapon collection and practice in their use is ideally suited as well.

I think the only other item I would want to add would be what I believe would be the ultimate personal zombie slaying impliment: the tomahawk. It's a fast, easy to use, lightweight one-handed weapon that delivers a devestating head wound with a minimal amount of effort with a blade design that is ideal for quick removal (note the characteristic upward sweep of the axe blade).

I should write Max and tell him about the tremendous advantages in the ancient Native American tool.

The upbeat tone of your post makes the fact that you find yourself well-equipped for the impending Zombie apocalypse... kinda disturbing.

Admittedly, at the end of my first reading of WWZ my first reaction was: "I need to buy a butt-load of 12-guage slugs!" But I think with my dog for advance notification of incoming zombies and my paltry gun-collection I should be able to escape past the Rockies. But the idea of working on some farm for the post-apocalypse government isn't very appealing.

ruhk wrote:
Azure Chicken wrote:
Robear wrote:

Neither do they digest anything. One comment in the book suggests that if they eat enough flesh, it will...uh...exit their body and rot in their...clothing.

Then.. how do they persist? They devour, but don't extract fuel from it... therefore... they should disintegrate as time continues.

My interpretation of it was that the zombie vector was bacterial or viral, feeding off the necrotizing tissue and electrically stimulating the motor cortex, causing animation. Or it could be pixies.

But anyway, I really only see zombies being a real-world threat in highly-populated, confined areas, like city centers or shopping malls, where the zombies' numbers can spread faster than the populace can adjust to it... because once you get your wits about you the zombies just aren't that much of a threat. They're slow, stupid and easily killed. Most are even falling apart of their own accord. I think Shaun of the Dead got it right: once society got over the initial shock of "WTF! ZOMBIES!" they got the problem under control rather quickly. The main character, a none-too-bright but endearing f*ck-up, even manages to keep one as a pet for a prolonged time without incident. Hypothetically, should the Inevitable Zombie Apocalypse actually occur I think it will be more of a weekend-gone-bad than an end-of-days.

Agreed. I only see it as becoming a serious issue if the Zombies in question are the sprinter-zombies from the Day of the Dead remake, or the infected from the 28 Days Later series. Shambling hordes would be laid to waste pretty damn quick, methinks.

Prederick wrote:
ruhk wrote:
Azure Chicken wrote:
Robear wrote:

Neither do they digest anything. One comment in the book suggests that if they eat enough flesh, it will...uh...exit their body and rot in their...clothing.

Then.. how do they persist? They devour, but don't extract fuel from it... therefore... they should disintegrate as time continues.

My interpretation of it was that the zombie vector was bacterial or viral, feeding off the necrotizing tissue and electrically stimulating the motor cortex, causing animation. Or it could be pixies.

But anyway, I really only see zombies being a real-world threat in highly-populated, confined areas, like city centers or shopping malls, where the zombies' numbers can spread faster than the populace can adjust to it... because once you get your wits about you the zombies just aren't that much of a threat. They're slow, stupid and easily killed. Most are even falling apart of their own accord. I think Shaun of the Dead got it right: once society got over the initial shock of "WTF! ZOMBIES!" they got the problem under control rather quickly. The main character, a none-too-bright but endearing f*ck-up, even manages to keep one as a pet for a prolonged time without incident. Hypothetically, should the Inevitable Zombie Apocalypse actually occur I think it will be more of a weekend-gone-bad than an end-of-days.

Agreed. I only see it as becoming a serious issue if the Zombies in question are the sprinter-zombies from the Day of the Dead remake, or the infected from the 28 Days Later series. Shambling hordes would be laid to waste pretty damn quick, methinks.

Agreed. The neo-Romero zombies in the Dawn remake also had the advantage of being pretty crafty. The scene where they ambush our heroes from the rafters in the garage demonstrates more than mindless aggression.

Lester_King wrote:

The upbeat tone of your post makes the fact that you find yourself well-equipped for the impending Zombie apocalypse... kinda disturbing.

Admittedly, at the end of my first reading of WWZ my first reaction was: "I need to buy a butt-load of 12-guage slugs!" But I think with my dog for advance notification of incoming zombies and my paltry gun-collection I should be able to escape past the Rockies. But the idea of working on some farm for the post-apocalypse government isn't very appealing.

I am pretty well stocked with 12g slugs, but still think that the far better tool for that job is the AR-15 with standard M193 ammo. It's far easier to hit the brainpan with it and it's pretty much going to take the top of the mellon right off. That and the convenience of a 30 round mag (duct taped, of course, to another one to make reloading under stress pretty easy) makes the AR-15 a no brainer . The minimal recoil in the 5.56mm round also makes the whole rapid dispatch pretty easy as well.

Though if I were an enterprising auto mechanic with a talent for fabrication, I think I'd probably just make a vehicle with rotating lawn mower blades at head level. The zombies aren't bright enough to duck, so just go for a drive and keep the wiper fluid reservoir full.

Yeah, the AR-15 is probably a better anti-zombie weapon than my pump. But I don't have an AR-15. I have been kicking around the purchase of an AK-47. I figure if people in every corner of the world can have one, I should be able to as well.

I don't know about your zombie-truck-inator idea. What if you run out of gas?

Our default lunch conversation has become Z-day plans. I was initially leaning towards Ft. Sumter as a hold-out point, but there are too many holes in the walls -remnants of the War of Northern Aggression. So the plan now is to either take control of the Yorktown that's sitting in Charleston Harbor, or just steal some sailboats. Another alternative around here is to just take a house on one of the barrier islands here, they're mostly built on stilts about 15' off the ground.

All in all a fun mental exercise.

I am about to inherit a pretty huge gun collection but I'm missing some key armaments for WWZ.

Lester, let me know where you get your AK-47 as I'm also in the market for one for my collection.

Gentlemen, gentlemen! We aren't Third World primatives making do without indoor plumbing. Why satisfy your tool needs with a communist ghetto gun? Only a backwoods secessionist would consider one of those when civilized options are available.