"A Game of Thrones" Spoiler-Ridden Catch-All of Doom - books and HBO show

When Ned is talking to Catelyn about Jon, he say that Jon is his "blood." Not "bastard." In the books, Ned never says to anyone that Jon is his son or his bastard. At times, as with the conversation with the King about Wylla, allows others to make the statement without correcting them, or allows them to assume that it is true. I imagine that Ned told the lie once or twice at the very start when he came home with Jon and since then has done his best not to directly lie again.

I've read the books extensively, and followed all the debates, and Martin has said more than once that the clues to Jon's parentage are all in the books to be found. Lyanna and Rhaegar as Jon's parents is the only theory that makes sense to me.

Agreed on changing the thread title as well. These are big spoilers.

As for Jon Snow, followed the link Brennil put up on the previous page and I've started reading it.

One of the early quotes is striking in its evasiveness. Catelyn asks Ned about Jon's mother

Ned Stark wrote:

"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

It's cited during speculation about whether Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother, but when Ned calls Jon "my blood" rather than "my son" it's a big ol' red flag. I'm not ready to call it conclusive evidence but is there something else that points more firmly to Jon being Ned's son?

*Edit* So I finished reading that link. It's convincing enough to me that I'll operate as if it's true until more clues are uncovered.

Title edited.

AnimeJ wrote:

Surely you know the true meaning of being a bastard?

Please don't call me Shirley.

Brennil's link has convinced me.

Wow. That link has me completely convinced.

That is a great site, it'll be of use to my ailing memory of what has gone before when Book 5 finally arrives.

This finally explains to me why Jon turned out to be the (or one of the few) main characters in the book. By which I mean a key figure around which the big events transpire. Silly me, I used to think it was Robb.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Silly me, I used to think it was Robb. :o

[color=white]Hah! At least you didn't have too long to carry that notion.[/color]

Jon and Daenerys would qualify as "main characters" to me, although with Martin you really never know. Bran? Maybe Arya? That could just be my bias showing, though.

Quintin - I am so right with you. Every time I find a character whose story I like and feel like I'm following, he dies on me.

*FURTHER SPOILERS BELOW - READ ONLY IF YOU'VE READ ALL 4 BOOKS*

Anyone disappointed that apparently the Hound died without ever getting to have his revenge on his brother (who apparently died as well)? The book talks about that desire so often, I can't believe that it never came to fruition. As I read the books, I feel like no one is safe - which is probably what Martin is going for. Here's hoping Jon Snow survives.

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person who doesn't quite buy off on it. There's a whole lot of big leaps he makes on assumptions, which is part of why I'm thinking that. It's certainly all possible, to be sure. I just think it's a bit too much of a stretch, even considering things that have gone before.

AnimeJ wrote:

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person who doesn't quite buy off on it. There's a whole lot of big leaps he makes on assumptions, which is part of why I'm thinking that. It's certainly all possible, to be sure. I just think it's a bit too much of a stretch, even considering things that have gone before.

I actually couldn't follow your last post - the one where you were clarifying things? At first I thought you were saying that Jon was Ned's illegitimate son; after that post, I thought (after several careful re-readings) that you were saying that Jon is someone else's illegitimate son who Ned has appropriated - which is obviously harmonious with Brennill's theory, except for the lack of specificity.

Fed wrote:

Spoilerific Comments

[color=white]I didn't completely buy the Monk's story RE: the Hound. I think he may wind up on that island, though I definitely think his chance for revenge on Gregor is done. I had the misfortune of hitting one of these ASOIAF boards where they all think the Mountain is a Zombie now. Please. Like he'd ever do that[/color]

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Quintin - I am so right with you. Every time I find a character whose story I like and feel like I'm following, he dies on me.

*FURTHER SPOILERS BELOW - READ ONLY IF YOU'VE READ ALL 4 BOOKS*

Anyone disappointed that apparently the Hound died without ever getting to have his revenge on his brother (who apparently died as well)? The book talks about that desire so often, I can't believe that it never came to fruition.

Yeah, I was disappointed as well. On the other hand, all knowledge of their deaths is entirely second-hand, from what I can tell. It wouldn't be the first time people are passed off as dead.

Also, the Onion Knight, I think, deserved more than just a passing reference to his fate.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Also, the Onion Knight, I think, deserved more than just a passing reference to his fate.

I think there are serious doubts as to the truth of that particular letter. I believe he's supposed to be a POV-character in Dance, so we'll learn more about it then.

buzzvang wrote:
Fed wrote:

Spoilerific Comments

[color=white]I didn't completely buy the Monk's story RE: the Hound. I think he may wind up on that island, though I definitely think his chance for revenge on Gregor is done. I had the misfortune of hitting one of these ASOIAF boards where they all think the Mountain is a Zombie now. Please. Like he'd ever do that[/color]

;)

The Mountain definitely died, wasn't his head sent back to Dorne after he was killed by Martell? But Qyburn definitely has his body and is doing some weird stuff down in the Black Cells. So I hope that the Monk's story is... incomplete?

[color=white]Besides, we know that those monks have The Hound's horse and there was someone limping around burying people. My money is on the fact that that limping dude is The Hound and the monks are going to turn him into a lean, mean Qyburn Mountain/Monster-killing-machine. [/color]

Thank God for you people, cause no one ever wants to talk about this series of books with me.

AnimeJ wrote:

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person who doesn't quite buy off on it. There's a whole lot of big leaps he makes on assumptions, which is part of why I'm thinking that. It's certainly all possible, to be sure. I just think it's a bit too much of a stretch, even considering things that have gone before.

Anime, I wouldn't worry about it. It's all speculation and you're intitled to your opinion. It is, unfortunately for you, not the most popular opinion around here. But we'll see in about 8 years when the books are finished.

Re: the Mountain's head - wouldn't be the first time in this series that someone's head was passed off as someone else's.

Man, I only finished those books a year ago, and they're already all hazy for me. What do people do, read Cliff's Notes right before the next book comes out?

Lester_King wrote:

The Mountain definitely died, wasn't his head sent back to Dorne after he was killed by Martell? But Qyburn definitely has his body and is doing some weird stuff down in the Black Cells. So I hope that the Monk's story is... incomplete?

I believe the Lannisters said they were sending the head to Dorne. I don't recall anyone saying it ever arrived.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person who doesn't quite buy off on it. There's a whole lot of big leaps he makes on assumptions, which is part of why I'm thinking that. It's certainly all possible, to be sure. I just think it's a bit too much of a stretch, even considering things that have gone before.

I actually couldn't follow your last post - the one where you were clarifying things? At first I thought you were saying that Jon was Ned's illegitimate son; after that post, I thought (after several careful re-readings) that you were saying that Jon is someone else's illegitimate son who Ned has appropriated - which is obviously harmonious with Brennill's theory, except for the lack of specificity.

Ok, at this point, I've read through all of that. I see where the theory comes from, and I can see how it all links together. Could it be possible? Certainly. However, given that GRRM has a habit of skipping time without giving much indication of how much has passed, his assumptions that Ned couldn't/wouldn't have been in one place long enough to have brought back a child just seems really weak as a counterpoint.

I can see why it would be so popular, however, right now it's like a 'Hail Mary' pass in football; something that could work, might work, want to work, but ultimately, gets batted away.

I don't think someone posted this yet here.

A Game of Thrones Roleplaying Game (Standard Edition) - PDF FORMAT - $24.99
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...

Just in case someone absolutely wants the RPG.
A Review here.

BTW I read all Four books non-stop all the way through. It took me 10 weeks but I got through then all. Holy Crap that's a good story. Now he just has to publish the next three books before he dies. He's not getting any younger and he writes slow as molasses but so very well. I'm am hooked. Period.

Can't find anything new on this HBO series though. Only the original noise on it in January.

Also here is some more "A Song of Ice and Fire" goodness in the form of miniatures.

August 13th, 2007 Update: We have HUGE news folks. Dark Sword Miniatures with Tom Meier will be producing a line of Premium Pewter Miniatures based on the hugely popular George R.R. Martin series A Song of Ice and Fire. We have our first five preview pics below. Click on any of them to be taken to the Full Press Release Page with larger pics of each miniature. To say we are excited about this new line of miniatures is an understatement...This is going to be alot of fun so buckle up and enjoy the ride!

Read Full Article Here

Ned Stark wrote:

"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

I haven't noticed anyone post what was written 2 paragraphs before this quote:

He did more then that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.
Rhumor wrote:

Ned Stark wrote:

"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

I haven't noticed anyone post what was written 2 paragraphs before this quote:

He did more then that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.

Is there a question here? Or just something that surprised you as a reader? There is a huge debate over who Jon's mother really is. These people in this forum I am about to link are so much more expert on the material than I. They have seemingly memorized the books in detail. The Forum Thread Here <-- Needless to say there are major spoilers in that thread. Be warned.

Rhumor wrote:

Ned Stark wrote:

"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

I haven't noticed anyone post what was written 2 paragraphs before this quote:

He did more then that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.

Wow, a year old resurrect... Nice.

Back on topic though, Does anyone have any current information about the HBO release ?

The most current news on the topic can be found from G.R.R.M.'s Not a Blog Livejournal entry on June 13th, 2008.

Source: Link

The latest news on HBO front is that David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have turned in the second draft of the pilot script for A GAME OF THRONES, and their rewrite is presently being read and evaluated by the powers-that-be at HBO. In other words, it's the normal process, which is long and often slow. So far, the reports are good, and HBO seems to like what they're seeing... but no, there's no greenlight yet, A GAME OF THRONES remains a script in development, not a series in production.

The one hard bit of news is that HBO has reached agreement with the BBC for them to come in as a partner on the series... IF it goes ahead. That's very cool news, and I'm excited and pleased to have the BBC involved... but even so, we're still in the crossed fingers stage here, not the shooting-off-fireworks stage.

I get emails about the HBO adaptation of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE almost daily, by the way, so let me say a few words about that.

Look, guys and girls, I appreciate all the enthusiasm and interest, but please stop sending me your resumes, your head shots, your audition tapes. We're not hiring anyone as yet. We won't be hiring anyone for some time, most likely. And should that day arrive when the show gets the greenlight and we start looking for a cast and crew, it won't be me doing the hiring and casting. I'll visit the set from time to time, I'm sure (how often may depend on whether we're shooting in Ireland, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Rumania, or wherever), but the final decisions on these matters will be made by HBO, the BBC, the showrunners, and the director. I can't help you. Especially if you're not actually professionally involved in film and television, but are still "desperate to be involved in the show in any capacity, even just standing around in the background." I get a lot of those emails too. Those people who stand around in the background are called "extras," for what it's worth, and I'm not in charge of hiring them either. Again, we thank you for the love, but that's not how television works.

I also get a constant stream of emails asking me for news about the HBO project. Guys, that's why I have a News page on my website, and that's why I post here. When there's some news to share, I share it. Honest. No news is no news. Sometimes long periods pass when nothing is happening, or things are happening behind the scenes that even I am not aware of. Whenever there is a significant development -- like the BBC coming aboard -- I will post it here. I'm not going to try to disseminate it in individual emails to whoever happens to write that day to ask what's new with HBO.

Thanks for your patience. Thanks for your understanding. Keep your fingers crossed.

kilroy0097 wrote:

The most current news on the topic can be found from G.R.R.M.'s Not a Blog Livejournal entry on June 13th, 2008.

Source: Link

The latest news on HBO front is that David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have turned in the second draft of the pilot script for A GAME OF THRONES, and their rewrite is presently being read and evaluated by the powers-that-be at HBO. In other words, it's the normal process, which is long and often slow. So far, the reports are good, and HBO seems to like what they're seeing... but no, there's no greenlight yet, A GAME OF THRONES remains a script in development, not a series in production.

The one hard bit of news is that HBO has reached agreement with the BBC for them to come in as a partner on the series... IF it goes ahead. That's very cool news, and I'm excited and pleased to have the BBC involved... but even so, we're still in the crossed fingers stage here, not the shooting-off-fireworks stage.

I get emails about the HBO adaptation of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE almost daily, by the way, so let me say a few words about that.

Look, guys and girls, I appreciate all the enthusiasm and interest, but please stop sending me your resumes, your head shots, your audition tapes. We're not hiring anyone as yet. We won't be hiring anyone for some time, most likely. And should that day arrive when the show gets the greenlight and we start looking for a cast and crew, it won't be me doing the hiring and casting. I'll visit the set from time to time, I'm sure (how often may depend on whether we're shooting in Ireland, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Rumania, or wherever), but the final decisions on these matters will be made by HBO, the BBC, the showrunners, and the director. I can't help you. Especially if you're not actually professionally involved in film and television, but are still "desperate to be involved in the show in any capacity, even just standing around in the background." I get a lot of those emails too. Those people who stand around in the background are called "extras," for what it's worth, and I'm not in charge of hiring them either. Again, we thank you for the love, but that's not how television works.

I also get a constant stream of emails asking me for news about the HBO project. Guys, that's why I have a News page on my website, and that's why I post here. When there's some news to share, I share it. Honest. No news is no news. Sometimes long periods pass when nothing is happening, or things are happening behind the scenes that even I am not aware of. Whenever there is a significant development -- like the BBC coming aboard -- I will post it here. I'm not going to try to disseminate it in individual emails to whoever happens to write that day to ask what's new with HBO.

Thanks for your patience. Thanks for your understanding. Keep your fingers crossed.

Sweet, Thanks. Time to start emailing GRRM my head shots and see if he can get me in. (Very cool about the BBC though)

Hrm. It wasn't head shots I sent him. Think that'll hurt my chances?

Little head or Big head?

Well, I sent him a picture of Little Fed and told him if he didn't want to meet him in a very uncomfortable place he'd better get me on that show.

Rhumor wrote:

Ned Stark wrote:

Quote:

"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

I haven't noticed anyone post what was written 2 paragraphs before this quote:

Quote:

He did more then that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.

Is there a question here? Or just something that surprised you as a reader? There is a huge debate over who Jon's mother really is. These people in this forum I am about to link are so much more expert on the material than I. They have seemingly memorized the books in detail. The Forum Thread Here <-- Needless to say there are major spoilers in that thread. Be warned.

I was just refering to all the posts I read here and in the link you provided that stated Ned Stark never refered to Jon as his son. In that second paragraph the quotes around "son" suggests to me that it was a word Ned used.