Hellgate London catch all

I am was so disappointed when EA got there hands on HellGate!
Words are hard, aren't they?

Yes, yes this morning, they are...

While 10 bucks a month is a pittance in teh grand scheme of things - it seems a bit over the top in the greed department to charge for a multiplayer shooter. Now, granted I know the game has changed and I dont know everything about it, but has it now morphed into a MMO of some sort. Or is it just TechnoGoth Planetside? I will likely pay for the Elite to sample the worth, but given my notorious gaming ADD it probably wont continue unless the game just blows me away. Speaking of guilds etc..., are we going to have a guild for this and what would be the advantage - are there permanent servers you play on for each session? So if we choose Hellgate 1 - we will always play on Hellgate 1? Also when is the release date for this one and given the issues with Mythos - the network/MMO side doesnt seem ready for showtime in the least.

Now, this fee wouldn't apply to the Xbox 360 version of the game...right? There's still gonna BE an Xbox 360 version of the game...right?

I was never really excited about this game to begin with. Now even less so.

It seems to me that "uber" weapons aside, they are giving you for free what they gave for free in Diablo II. They are charging for things that were never fully included in Diablo, a kind of persistence that adds value for those who want it. If you just want to play with your friends like you would Diablo II, which everyone seems to love, you can do that without dropping an extra cent. If you want a more fleshed out, persistent MMO/Guild experience and new content then you pay for it, big deal.

I'll wait and see if these elite weapons are simply end-game "I've-played-for- 100-hours" stuff, or items that kick in from level 1. There's a definite negative trend here when any monthly fee is announced, but it's difficult to really ascribe value until we can actually see it for ourselves in a demo or beta. I'll wait and see before I sharpen the pitchforks.

Also worth noting: EA is only marketing and distributing the game. Namco Bandai is still in the mix and Flagship Studios seems to be in control of their own destiny. EA also distributed Half-Life 2, so step away from the ledge you pessimists!

In D2 you could have 12 closed characters per server (useast, uswest, asian server). There's a big difference between 3, or even 12 for paying subs, and 36 characters.

And again, Guild Wars offers what Hellgate proposes for free.

I, on January 9th wrote:

I suppose this all depends on whether or not the MMO side of the game is just a re-hash of what you can get in single player. Would one necessarily want to play MMO monthly fees if all you're doing is playing the Diablo II campaign online, for example?

While there definitely sounds like some differences in the MMO experience, doesn't sound like there's enough there to entice one to subscribe, but then again, those who do decide to remain a "plebe" (interesting choice of words there) will be at a vast disadvantage compared to the Elite players. Wouldn't be surprised if this gets tweeked someday, preferably before launch rather than afterwards.

Guild Wars is an anomaly. I'm not convinced a company starting from scratch can pull off a fully featured, AAA, persistent world without having the resources and existing technology of NCSoft behind them. It paid off for Guild Wars, but it's a huge gamble for an independent company.

fangblackbone wrote:

And again, Guild Wars offers what Hellgate proposes for free.

On paper, I agree, and I'm a bit disappointed with this. I feel like $10 is a bit much a month for what they're suggesting, but you know what? The game hasn't even come out yet. Once we've actually seen first hand what
A) The non-subscription experience is like
and
B) The additional value the subscription experience adds
beyond a bullet point snippet, I'll be much more ready to tear this game a new one should it deserve it.
I suggest we give this the benefit of the doubt until we actually see these implementations in practice.
Until then, my enthusiasm still measures somewhere around "Guarded enthusiasm".

Dysplastic wrote:

A) The non-subscription experience is like
and
B) The additional value the subscription experience adds

On paper and assuming all things are equal, there doesn't seem to be that much in the subscription that the plebs will be missing. But that's all things are equal, which is rarely the case in an MMO. What'll decide how the online experience plays out is the balance of Elites vs. plebs and how the former treats the latter. I don't have to explain why I'm not all that optimistic on what'll happen, do I?

Certis wrote:

Also worth noting: EA is only marketing and distributing the game. Namco Bandai is still in the mix and Flagship Studios seems to be in control of their own destiny. EA also distributed Half-Life 2, so step away from the ledge you pessimists!

I do feel a little bit better that they are only handling the distro and marketing. Now honestly that is one thing EA does well. Get the games out so they can be bought and to as many people as they can.

I have followed Hellgate for a little and I trully hope it is a good game. By the CG it seems to be well done for the most part so far and they seem to be taking their time to put out a quality product, but I am still just leery over the whole thing. They seem to be dragging their feet.

To those asking if the game will feature LAN or other multiplay, as it stands right now, doesn't look like it. Apparently it's a "security risk" and they somehow believe their game won't be hacked as easily this way.

Well, something like that, anyway. Either way, these seem like signs telling us to approach with caution.

From http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3756

Chum wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

How does NOT paying detract you from playing the game?

I think the following directly detracts from a gameplay standpoint for a non-subscribing customer:

* If there are queues to get on a server, Elite players go to the front
* Elite players can become officers of guilds and own, enter, or operate player housing and guild buildings; plebs can be members of guilds, but will not be allowed to enter said buildings, or purchase property for themselves
* Elite players get access to more gametypes; plebs not allowed into servers or areas where those gametypes are operating
* Elite players will get new content each month, such as new monsters, new gametypes, new items, and so on

As mentioned, I think that the new content could very well be worth the $10/month if enough high-quality assets are added on a timely basis. Given the perceived delays with the product itself, Flagship will have to prove that it can do this.

Ultimately, this discussion is probably going to end up much like the DLC for Guitar Hero 2 - sure you don't have to pay for the extra stuff, but that doesn't preclude me from sharing my opinion that it's lacking in value or that they're removing features/adding limitations that are unnecessary. I'm also completely willing to concede that some will see that value, but that's their money, not mine.

I disagree.. how does NOT being an officer of a guild affect the core gameplay out the box? it doesnt.. and gametypes are additional to the core game.. one can still play the game out the box.. and for the whole queue thing.. big deal.. I paid $15 a month in WoW and STILL had 30 min queues some nights..

Add on content doesnt change the game out the box that you paid $50 for one time.. now time will tell if that $50 bought a worthwhile game out the box.. but that in itself is above and beyond Elite players getting content AFTER release for their $10 a month.

Certis wrote:

It seems to me that "uber" weapons aside, they are giving you for free what they gave for free in Diablo II. They are charging for things that were never fully included in Diablo, a kind of persistence that adds value for those who want it. If you just want to play with your friends like you would Diablo II, which everyone seems to love, you can do that without dropping an extra cent. If you want a more fleshed out, persistent MMO/Guild experience and new content then you pay for it, big deal.

I'll wait and see if these elite weapons are simply end-game "I've-played-for- 100-hours" stuff, or items that kick in from level 1. There's a definite negative trend here when any monthly fee is announced, but it's difficult to really ascribe value until we can actually see it for ourselves in a demo or beta. I'll wait and see before I sharpen the pitchforks.

When a company announces a subscription plan without demonstrating what I'm paying for, I get suspicious. "We don't know what it is but it costs $10" is the dumbest thing you could say to market your game.

As for the negativity in here, well, I'm sorry Certis and Gameguru, but I fully believe that the outrage from gamers in general prevented Hellgate's multiplayer from becoming severely gimped. Outrage worked in this case.

*flies banners, launches balloons, releases clowns*

That's quite some place you've bought, there Lobster. The upkeep on the clown lockdown must be steep.

As for the negativity in here, well, I'm sorry Certis and Gameguru, but I fully believe that the outrage from gamers in general prevented Hellgate's multiplayer from becoming severely gimped. Outrage worked in this case.

it did? how so?

fangblackbone wrote:

In D2 you could have 12 closed characters per server (useast, uswest, asian server). There's a big difference between 3, or even 12 for paying subs, and 36 characters.

And again, Guild Wars offers what Hellgate proposes for free.

it's actually 8 closed characters per account name, but I know what you mean.

jonnypolite wrote:
*flies banners, launches balloons, releases clowns*

That's quite some place you've bought, there Lobster. The upkeep on the clown lockdown must be steep.

Nah. But ammo gets expensive.

Lothar wrote:

it's actually 8 closed characters per account name, but I know what you mean.

They changed it then. It may have only been 8 closed characters per server at launch but I distinctly remember having different character lists for us-west and us-east.

fangblackbone wrote:
Lothar wrote:

it's actually 8 closed characters per account name, but I know what you mean.

They changed it then. It may have only been 8 closed characters per server at launch but I distinctly remember having different character lists for us-west and us-east.

Absolutely, your right that it is 8 characters per account name per realm,

I was refering to when you said it was 12 characters

TheGameguru wrote:

Add on content doesnt change the game out the box that you paid $50 for one time.. now time will tell if that $50 bought a worthwhile game out the box.. but that in itself is above and beyond Elite players getting content AFTER release for their $10 a month.

.. and I'm not disputing that added content could be worth the monthly charge, but the other limitations feel artificial. Most of the features that listed have been known about for quite some time - stuff that I'm very much interested in - I just don't agree on what you call "core" gameplay since some of that stuff I expected to be included out-of-the box. Obviously you feel it's superfluous and worthy of the extra charge. On this we disagree.

While it's too early to pass judgement, the initial list simply didn't satisfy my expectations. Ask me again when it's out (got a release date anyone?) and maybe I'll feel differently.

Ahh.. see I never expected this game to feature Guilds and Housing of that sorts.. to me it was always an actiony FPS/RPG scifi Dialbo type game.. with online play that I can go through co-op with my friends. All the Guild and Persistent stuff never really entered into my equation in rating this game.

I just don't see the point in paying MMOG fees for what appears to be another multiplayer-online FPS. On the other hand, I was never that into Diablo 2, which is the game everyone invokes when they talk about Hellgate. I didn't play it much multiplayer, I only beat it once and never finished my second game. All my friends are obsessed with LAN matches and I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on to other games.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

I just don't see the point in paying MMOG fees for what appears to be another multiplayer-online FPS. On the other hand, I was never that into Diablo 2, which is the game everyone invokes when they talk about Hellgate. I didn't play it much multiplayer, I only beat it once and never finished my second game. All my friends are obsessed with LAN matches and I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on to other games.

That's understandable and it's definitely possible it may not be your type of game but it's all good, I've been hearing that Hellgate plays alot like Diablo 2 in alot of ways.

TheGameguru wrote:

I disagree.. how does NOT being an officer of a guild affect the core gameplay out the box? it doesnt.. and gametypes are additional to the core game.. one can still play the game out the box.. and for the whole queue thing.. big deal.. I paid $15 a month in WoW and STILL had 30 min queues some nights..

As I posted above, all things being equal, it shouldn't. But, how this goes down will depend largely on how Elites interact with plebs; it's one thing to have everyone on a level playing field battling with each other, but this establishes a clear class structure to the HG:L landscape with paying players having more power over those that don't. I wonder if Flagship Studios thought this through the whole way or if they're filing it under "Game experience may change during online play."

it's one thing to have everyone on a level playing field battling with each other, but this establishes a clear class structure to the HG:L landscape with paying players having more power over those that don't.

Oh this is a PVP game? I got the impression that this was more like Diablo 2 with co-op PVE type stuff..

TheGameguru wrote:

Oh this is a PVP game? I got the impression that this was more like Diablo 2 with co-op PVE type stuff..

PVP (if not actual then through friendly fire) is a given in every MMORPG even though the implementation may differ. Even Diablo had it.

Rat Boy wrote:

Even Diablo had it.

Ah yes, I remember the first time I accidentally dropped my friend in combat. Of course I collected her ear. Rest assured that my own ear adorned her belt shortly afterwards.

polypusher wrote:

Ah yes, I remember the first time I accidentally dropped my friend in combat. Of course I collected her ear. Rest assured that my own ear adorned her belt shortly afterwards.

I remember one lengthy session where anytime one of us got killed, the survivor would open a town portal so the recently deceased could teleport back in and get their stuff, ears included. I'm proud to say that I only had a matched pair.