Vista Upgrade: ick!

So.. I wanted to see how smoothly an in-place upgrade of an Media Center 2005 install would go to Vista Ultimate on Sunday.

This was on a Dell XPS M2010 (the big 20" "Laptop).. glancing at Dell's website revealed no real info..and I only noticed a few Vista drivers on there so far for the M2010.. one assumes there will be more once the official consumer release date hits.. but still..

Anyway.. right off the bat during the Vista insisted that I uninstall my Toshiba Bluetooth stack before upgrading to Vista.. there was no getting around this.. the upgrade simply exits out until I did this.. naturally I figured that as soon as I did this my keyboard and mouse would stop functioning..

Note that the M2010's keyboard/touchpad and included mouse are Bluetooth. (the keyboard is actually dockable to the M2010 and rechargeable)

Sure enough they did stop functioning..rendering my ability to type or mouse on my M2010.. so I had to dig up a USB Keyboard and Mouse..

Ok.. thats done.. upgrade starts.. approx. ~70 minutes or so later its complete..

Norton AV is immediately an issue an generates all sorts of errors upon startup.. but a simple uninstall fixes that.. and thankfully Norton already has the Vista version posted up on the Corporate site for download.

Not sure why Vista during the initial scan didn't detect Norton as a problem app and requested it to be removed like the Bluetooth. (which btw started working again with Vista's built in bluetooth support)

The Creative Labs Audigy software is also doing all sorts of weird crap.. so that needs to be removed.. as well as Sonic's MyDVD.. so that also needs to be removed. No updates on Dell or Creative/Sonic's site.

A few minutes later my keyboard starts typing the same character over and over eventually beeping like mad and crashing Vista.

Power down.. Power Up.. post screen then horrendously loud beeping noises... Power Down.

Power up.. Safe mode screen.. boots fine.. thinks about going into Safe Mode Gui.. then reboots spontaneously.. reboot though works fine.. and am back into Vista.

DVD wont eject.. push button several times.. nada.. go to My Computer and right click and hit eject.. crashes Vista.. Power Down..

Power up.. horrendous beeping.. give up.

Last night I boot up and it gets into Vista fine.. I'm able to put in my USB Flash Drive and back up my files.. I figure its to unstable to use.. so I do a complete wipe and fresh install of Vista..

Which btw works fine.. there are some components that don't get recognized and I don't really know what they are or if Dell has some drivers for it.. but for the most part everything works on the laptop.. I'll try WoW tonight and see how that goes.

So.. Microsoft will have a huge headache for them come Feb.. or unless they really aren't planning for many people to do in place upgrades..There has to be some process in place to get software thats installed on your system autopatched to work with Vista.. and the "scan to fix problem feature either doesnt work.. or software manufacturers dont have anything up that interfaces with that function.

for example when it complained about my XP ATI driver it scanned for a fix.. but all it did was give me a link to www.ati.com where naturally I was able to download the Vista ATI driver.. but man.. that needs to be automated.

Thanks for the info GG, is your copy of Vista a full version or upgrade? I ask because I purchased MCE 2005 and qualified for a "free" Vista upgrade. I'm hoping that I can do a fresh install with the upgrade version after proving proof of ownership of the appropriate full version of XP cd. If not, I do have a spare drive with a fresh MCE install (no other software, patched to perfection) waiting in reserve that I can lay Vista on top of if necessary. If I do have to go that route, I'll post my experience here.

Have any of the Windows installer upgrades ever worked? I've been just writing them off as potentially system-hosing since Windows 98.

PyromanFO wrote:

Have any of the Windows installer upgrades ever worked? I've been just writing them off as potentially system-hosing since Windows 98.

I think I did a 2000 to XP once that went very well.. and certainly my ME (ugh) to XP was fine the few times I did them.

I used to do extremely reliable 98SE to 2000 installs all the time.

Sesos wrote:

Thanks for the info GG, is your copy of Vista a full version or upgrade? I ask because I purchased MCE 2005 and qualified for a "free" Vista upgrade. I'm hoping that I can do a fresh install with the upgrade version after proving proof of ownership of the appropriate full version of XP cd. If not, I do have a spare drive with a fresh MCE install (no other software, patched to perfection) waiting in reserve that I can lay Vista on top of if necessary. If I do have to go that route, I'll post my experience here.

its the MSDN version.. but I'm sure the upgrade versions are just the full version with a media check or something.. so you wont have to do an upgrade

TheGameguru wrote:

But I'm sure the upgrade versions are just the full version with a media check or something.. so you wont have to do an upgrade

That's what they've been pretty much since 98 as far as I know.

I installed Vista Ultimate on my pc the other day too and the lack of drivers was a huge issue.

Now I did not do an upgrade so my install was a lot cleaner then yours. In fact it did the entire install in about 10 minutes or less I am guessing.

I was able to find a creative sb beta driver for vista that worked but that was about all I could find.

Basically I figure come release day there is going to be a lot of issues between lack of drivers and just plain old upgrade/install pains.

Sounds like my upgrade plans just got delayed for about 6 months.
-Xino

How is the "final" version of Vista otherwise? I'm shopping for a new laptop but waiting to pull the trigger until February when I can get Vista pre-installed instead of buying now and having to deal with an upgrade coupon.

LeapingGnome wrote:

How is the "final" version of Vista otherwise? I'm shopping for a new laptop but waiting to pull the trigger until February when I can get Vista pre-installed instead of buying now and having to deal with an upgrade coupon.

I do not think I can really comment on this as there is no driver for my video card so Vista has me using generic VGA drivers and thinks my 8800gtx is not even able to run built in windows games like spider solitare well.

So hard for me to do much of anything.

I will say this though the new interface is not bad but will take some getting use to.

It looks like drivers aren't going to be out until Vista is 'officially' out for retail (like business don't need 8800GTX's!).

linked page wrote:

** GeForce 8800 requires updated drivers for Vista, which will be available to download when Vista is available at retail in late January.

Xino2 wrote:

Sounds like my upgrade plans just got delayed for about 6 months.
-Xino

Second that. Besides, there still isn't a game which is very good and requires DX10 only. Untill then, I will probably be on XP. Unless I can get myself a very cheap Vista.

Eezy_Bordone wrote:

It looks like drivers aren't going to be out until Vista is 'officially' out for retail (like business don't need 8800GTX's!).

linked page wrote:

** GeForce 8800 requires updated drivers for Vista, which will be available to download when Vista is available at retail in late January.

There are some Alpha's out for Vista and the 8800's

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/

still no SLI support though

GG, is this your own personal system? If it is, I really have to ask: Why you know...in the world are you running Norton?! I do know when upgrading to XP that Norton and many other AV products will break if they are not removed before the upgrade is performed. You are also very lucky that you were able to uninstall Norton successfully. But particularly on a system you play games on, Norton is the last thing you should run. It's the most bloated security solution available and is one of the only consumer-grade products that isn't ICSA Labs certified. You're obviously not a novice user so I was just curious.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

GG, is this your own personal system? If it is, I really have to ask: Why you know...in the world are you running Norton?! I do know when upgrading to XP that Norton and many other AV products will break if they are not removed before the upgrade is performed. You are also very lucky that you were able to uninstall Norton successfully. But particularly on a system you play games on, Norton is the last thing you should run. It's the most bloated security solution available and is one of the only consumer-grade products that isn't ICSA Labs certified. You're obviously not a novice user so I was just curious.

I use the Corporate version of Symantec AV which is very light and speedy.. plus it doesnt have a separate yearly fee for updates..(other than the yearly fee we pay for software upgrades)

TheGameguru wrote:

I use the Corporate version of Symantec AV which is very light and speedy.. plus it doesnt have a separate yearly fee for updates..(other than the yearly fee we pay for software upgrades)

Vista has different ways for antivirus to hook itself into the disk i/o. Your nightmare scenario could very well have been caused by having not uninstalled the Symantec Antivirus prior to upgrade.

It is Microsoft's fault though for not spotting it. Symantec is still a major player and that's just inexcusable.

OK yes, the Corporate version is a totally different animal. From the way you were describing the process, it sounded as though you were using the consumer version (something which I can write a book on my experiences with, literally a whole frickin' book.) It's funny because while it doesn't tell you to uninstall it as it should, the XP Upgrade Advisor does spot just about any AV application as a potential problem that can be exposed during the upgrade. Strange that Vista doesn't.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

OK yes, the Corporate version is a totally different animal. From the way you were describing the process, it sounded as though you were using the consumer version (something which I can write a book on my experiences with, literally a whole frickin' book.) It's funny because while it doesn't tell you to uninstall it as it should, the XP Upgrade Advisor does spot just about any AV application as a potential problem that can be exposed during the upgrade. Strange that Vista doesn't.

well..it could have been under the warnings section.. I stopped reading after about the 10th warning.. lol.

I tried the driver that you linked GG and now it is up and running.

Even played WoW on Vista machine last night.

Have to say the new interface is kind of cool.

Wow, I didn't realize there are like 9 different versions of Vista to choose from. What version should a budget minded pc gamer plan on eventually upgrading to? I am not even sure I have an actual XP disc to use during an install of Vista, and I sure as heck don't want to actually install Vista on top of XP...so I am afraid I will be stuck buying a full version (*cough*ripoff*cough*). Linux is looking mighty nice...

Windows Vista Basic (Upgrade) - $98

Windows Vista Basic (Full Version) - $193

Windows Vista Home Premium (Upgrade) - $155

Windows Vista Home Premium (Full Version) - $229

Windows Vista Business (Upgrade) - $194

Windows Vista Business (Full Version) - $282

Windows Vista Ultimate (Upgrade) - $249

Windows Vista Ultimate Limited Numbered Signature Edition (Upgrade)...?
Link - $259

Windows Vista Ultimate (Full Version) - $379!! Ouch

Well the Home Basic versions don't have the new Aero interface or MediaCenter capabilities, so if you want those, don't use those versions.

The Home Premium versions do have Aero and MediaCenter but can't join a domain so if you run a home Windows server, you can't go with that.

Business has Aero but again, no MediaCenter and can join a domain. This is the version you'll get with the ActionPack.

Ultimate does everything including the bitlocker (hard drive encryption) from the Enterprise version.

Eezy_Bordone wrote:

Well the Home Basic versions don't have the new Aero interface or MediaCenter capabilities, so if you want those, don't use those versions.

Oh man that's hilarious.

Waitwaitwait...I know the Basic releases were well...basic, but you're saying that the main point they've been pimping about this OS and pretty much the only reason worth even considering spending money on it isn't even included in the basic version?!

Curious.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

Waitwaitwait...I know the Basic releases were well...basic, but you're saying that the main point they've been pimping about this OS and pretty much the only reason worth even considering spending money on it isn't even included in the basic version?!

The only people getting Basic are the people that are buying lower end machines from Dell or some other OEM. MS says right there on their site, it's for email and internet users primarily.

This information isn't new, it's been out for months.

Man, that's a lot of money for just e-mail and Internet.

Sure it is, they don't call it the MS Tax for nothing. But most people don't buy their OS's seperate from the box. Face facts, you are special.

EDIT:

Here is the other foot dropping.

According to the article if you upgrade online from Home Basic to Premium, it'll only cost you 80$. And since when you buy your PC you get an OEM price (and those customers and dell pay less for their OEM licenses than you do at NewEgg) that's not a bad deal, provided the PC you got basic with can run premium OK.

the article wrote:

.. the suggested retail prices to upgrade online to more premium editions of Windows Vista are $79 from Home Basic to Home Premium; $199 from Home Basic to Ultimate; $159 from Home Premium to Ultimate; and $139 from Business to Ultimate.

Also if you have Ultimate they'll sell you 2 (TWO) Home Premiums for 50$ each.

the article again wrote:

If they have bought a retail copy of Windows Vista Ultimate, they can buy two additional licenses for the Vista Home Premium Upgrade product at $49.99 each, a discount of more than 60 percent of the estimated retail price of $159 for the upgrade software, Manion said.
But, before the order can be completed online, customers will have to enter a valid Vista Ultimate key from their retail boxed product.

Also if you have Ultimate they'll sell you 2 (TWO) Home Premiums for 50$ each.

Interesting. At least that is a step in the right direction. I just feel like if I'm paying nearly $400 for an OS, I should get to install it on more than one machine without having to pay $50 for a lesser version. Could you then use your Vista Ultimate disk during the installation of those "upgrades" to satisfy the previous version of Windows prompt?

Tobyus wrote:

Could you then use your Vista Ultimate disk during the installation of those "upgrades" to satisfy the previous version of Windows prompt?

You can use the Ultimate media to do a full install. Vista DVDs have the files for every version on them, it's the product key that determines the version.

You would also use your Ultimate DVD if you're doing an in-place upgrade but the down level files are already on the PC.

If you are on a budget and already have xp I would pass on the upgrade for now. I just do not see a good reason to upgrade in that situation and this is coming from somebody using Vista Ultimate right now.