1080i and PS3 problems?

According to this IGN article, PS3 games that run in 720p will not upscale to 1080i for TVs that support 1080i but not 720p (like some HD CRTs). Instead, the 720p game will be downscaled to 480p or 480i.

The Xbox 360, of course, will upscale any 720p game to 1080i.

I feel sorry for anyone that buys a PS3 with a TV that doesn't accept and display 720p, or at least upscale it to 1080i (my CRT will take 720p and upscale to 1080i, but I just have the 360 set to 1080i and let it do the work).

The PS3 also eat puppies and spits on babies.

souldaddy wrote:

The PS3 also eat puppies and spits on babies.

That's the first positive thing I've heard about the PS3! I'm considering getting one now!

According to this IGN article, PS3 games that run in 720p will not upscale to 1080i for TVs that support 1080i but not 720p (like some HD CRTs). Instead, the 720p game will be downscaled to 480p or 480i.

I heard this earlier today and don't quite understand it. I assume you would either a)be able to select your ouput resolution from the console or b)the game would define the output resolution. In either case if you defined an output resolution that your tv doesn't handle natively the TV would do the scaling not the PS3. The only thing I can think of is that the PS3 doesn't have 1080i as an option to output in the OS? In which case I guess you'd be forced to select a 480p resolution if your tv couldnt accept 720p.

1080i isn't REAL HD anyway. Where's your discipline?

The problem seems to be that individual titles are really hit and miss over what HD formats they support. Resistance and Genji, for example, only support 720p whereas Ridge Race 7 supports 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p. No one cared because the assumption was the the PS3 would do the same thing that the Xbox 360 does and scale the signal to whatever resolution your TV supports.

In either case if you defined an output resolution that your tv doesn't handle natively the TV would do the scaling not the PS3.

There's the part where you're confusing things and hence don't understand. Many, many older HDTVs cannot accept a 720p signal, period. Many. When handed a 720p signal they lose sync and display nothing. On these HDTVs, most launch games on this hot new $600 (okay, $500, but it sounds better with the larger number) barbecue basically becomes no better in terms of "OMFG AMAZING HIGH DEFINITION GAMING!!!1" than the PS2, GameCube, and Wii, as it outputs the exact same resolution (480p) as those systems.

Honestly, does Sony hate money that much?

souldaddy wrote:

The PS3 also eat puppies and spits on babies.

Is that capability in the base model, or is it an add on?

Just when you think you are gonna experience the climactic heights of PS3 HDTV gaming, all you end up with is (480)'pee' in your (1080) 'eye'.

souldaddy wrote:

The PS3 also eat puppies and spits on babies.

I read that as sh*ts on babies.

On an anti-Sony fanboy side note, Resistance: Fall of Man looks like a wannabe Half-Life 2 with Ps2 quality graphics and people are actually buying consoles for this garbage? So sad...

Edwin wrote:
souldaddy wrote:

The PS3 also eat puppies and spits on babies.

I read that as sh*ts on babies.

That's only available on the premium version.

I thought it just made babies cry and blows up rubik's cubes? At least, that's what sony seems to want us to think.

I read about this yesterday, really a bummer for those early HDTV adopters.

There's the part where you're confusing things and hence don't understand. Many, many older HDTVs cannot accept a 720p signal, period. Many. When handed a 720p signal they lose sync and display nothing. On these HDTVs, most launch games on this hot new $600 (okay, $500, but it sounds better with the larger number) barbecue basically becomes no better in terms of "OMFG AMAZING HIGH DEFINITION GAMING!!!1" than the PS2, GameCube, and Wii, as it outputs the exact same resolution (480p) as those systems.

Yes I get this. The thing is how does the PS3 automagically know that your TV can't handle a given resolution? On the xbox you set up the output for your TV in the settings menu I assume the xbox scales everything to that resolution. The PS3 has the same setting via the OS, per IGN...

Finally, you chose a Resolution, which included 480p, 1080i, 720p, 1080p, and "custom." If you've got some freaky TV set that defies all the rules, please choose Custom and see what happens. Curiously, we didn't see 480i as a setting -- the standard TV resolution -- although that was probably because the test units were connected by HDMI cables to freaking blazing 1080p hi-def screens.

Perhaps this setting only affects OS resolution and a game can override it? I would think this setting would force all output to be scaled to the selected resolution. The only way I can see the PS3 causing this if there is some kind of feedback mechanism that lets the PS3 know when the TV can't handle the signal and it automatically defaults to a lower resolution in this case. Of course if that is the case then it would make sense if there was some sort of error they would default to a lower resolution and not a higher resolution. But the truth is i'd be surprised if the OS output resolution setting didn't scale the game output to your selected resolution.

The PS3 doesn't automagically know. When you leave out the 720p on the base video settings or set the resolution to 1080i and a game only supports 720p, the PS3 is going to drop to 480p. Allegedly or whatever caveat you desire.

Perhaps this setting only affects OS resolution and a game can override it? I would think this setting would force all output to be scaled to the selected resolution. The only way I can see the PS3 causing this if there is some kind of feedback mechanism that lets the PS3 know when the TV can't handle the signal and it automatically defaults to a lower resolution in this case. Of course if that is the case then it would make sense if there was some sort of error they would default to a lower resolution and not a higher resolution.

There's no feedback, hence why Microsoft asks you, when changing resolution, whether you want to keep it after you change it. That's "manual" feedback and if you don't answer in 15 seconds -- becuase, for instance, you can't see the output due to your HDTV losing sync -- it switches back to what it was.

I have a feeling that Sony is, if the game's supported resolutions doesn't intersect the HDTV's resolution setting, simply choosing the path of least resistance and downsampling.

But the truth is i'd be surprised if the OS output resolution setting didn't scale the game output to your selected resolution.

Everyone's surprised, and that's why the uproar.

IGN tested a number of games on 1080i-only sets and found them outputted to 480p. Whether it makes sense (it doesn't) or not, that's the reality of the situation. I have a 1080i-only set, even if I set the Xbox 360 to 720p on the dashboard it still displays fine, because the console is smart enough to change the signal to the highest-quality available setting regardless of what I tell it.

The PS3 is seeing the same situation and downscaling the resolution for games without built-in 1080i support. I hope this is just a software thing, because right now my TV is useless as far as the PS3 goes.

Pile on!

This is where Microsoft's standards really shine. Every game HAS to support 720p minimum. If your game doesn't, it doesnt get published. Since the console knows that every game has a 720p resolution its easy for it to convert that to your tv's native resolution according to what you pick in the dashboard.

Sony doesn't know what user friendly means, so this could be sort of a nightmare for users.

IGN tested a number of games on 1080i-only sets and found them outputted to 480p. Whether it makes sense (it doesn't) or not, that's the reality of the situation. I have a 1080i-only set, even if I set the Xbox 360 to 720p on the dashboard it still displays fine, because the console is smart enough to change the signal to the highest-quality available setting regardless of what I tell it.

I guess i'm having a hard time believing that the Xbox or PS3 for that matter know what resolutions your tv accepts. Especially since on these older sets the input would be via component cables. I think if you output a 720p resolution via component and it gets upscaled thats your TV doing the work not he Xbox or PS3. The other thing is i'd like to know more details because as I see things right now the solution for this problem may simply be "go to PS3 dashboard, set output resolution to 1080i".

This is where Microsoft's standards really shine. Every game HAS to support 720p minimum.

Not according to this...

When the tests were run, CoD3 was shown to be running at 1040x620 pixels and THP8 at 1040x584 pixels. The pixel drop reflects a resolution drop of 30% and 34%, respectively. The resolution drop could be assumed to help keep framerates up, but THP8 reportedly has framerate problems. So what's up?

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/13/co...

I guess i'm having a hard time believing that the Xbox or PS3 for that matter know what resolutions your tv accepts.

It doesn't. I'm not sure what Certis said means what he thinks it means.

Certis wrote:

I have a 1080i-only set, even if I set the Xbox 360 to 720p on the dashboard it still displays fine, because the console is smart enough to change the signal to the highest-quality available setting regardless of what I tell it.

Now you lost me. Care to rephrase or retract so as to not blow my mind? Why would the 360 ignore what you put in the dashboard? If I tell mine, for instance, to choose 1280x1024 to hook to my Dell, it ain't going to contradict me and put out a 1980x1020 picture because it's better. On the contrary, the 360 will, without exception during gameplay, output whatever resolution you tell it your monitor supports. In other words, in your case if you set the 360 to output 720p, that's what it's doing. You blow my mind.

Stric9 wrote:

Not according to this... (less-than-720p linkage)

Different thing. They've pulled this trick before and I wasn't happy then and I'm still not. But regardless what internal framebuffer size they render to, the 360 will still scale to whatever output resolution you want. PS3 won't (at this point, if ever). That's the difference.

Stric9 wrote:

I guess i'm having a hard time believing that the Xbox or PS3 for that matter know what resolutions your tv accepts. Especially since on these older sets the input would be via component cables. I think if you output a 720p resolution via component and it gets upscaled thats your TV doing the work not he Xbox or PS3. The other thing is i'd like to know more details because as I see things right now the solution for this problem may simply be "go to PS3 dashboard, set output resolution to 1080i".

Here's my understanding after reading the article:

A 1080i-only set doesn't understand 720p largely because 720p was introduced after the first (and 2nd?) gen of HDTVs. It can't upconvert a 720p signal because it lacks the logic to handle the upscaling. I imagine that these sets can upscale from 480(i or p) to 1080, though 480->1080 is going to look extremely grainy.

Now, when you tell your PS3 that you have a 1080i only set (this is configured within the PS3 configuration) and you put in a game that supports only 720p and below, the PS3 can't upscale it to 1080i but can (and does) downscale to 480p. The 360 has a built-in scaler that can and does upscale 720p to 1080i and therefore sends the signal to the TV in 1080i avoiding this problem on these older sets.

Stric9 wrote:
This is where Microsoft's standards really shine. Every game HAS to support 720p minimum.

Not according to this...

When the tests were run, CoD3 was shown to be running at 1040x620 pixels and THP8 at 1040x584 pixels. The pixel drop reflects a resolution drop of 30% and 34%, respectively. The resolution drop could be assumed to help keep framerates up, but THP8 reportedly has framerate problems. So what's up?

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/13/co...

That stuff is easy to get confused about. The point is that the game isn't rendering to the full resoultion. They are rendering a lower resolution and it is being upsampled to the 720p output resolution so that a TV will be able to display the game properly. This was also the case with PGR3 if I remember correctly, and people made a big stink about it last year too, but they seem to have conveniently forgot about that in order to make a big stink about it again right before the PS3 release.

zeroKFE wrote:

That stuff is easy to get confused about.

That's sooooo 4 minutes ago.

Yes Chum, what you said is my understanding as well. Basically the 360 scales up based on the configuration setting you provided to it, and instead the PS3 scales down.

ColdForged wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:

That stuff is easy to get confused about.

That's sooooo 4 minutes ago.

So I type slow. Sue me.

Well it sounds like Activision is just a shady bunch of SoB's and I dont think that suprises me. The standards are based on what Microsoft's testers can see. I dont think any human could tell that a game running 1040x620 isnt exactly at the HD standard. They'd probably just think it needs more anti aliasing (another MS standard. They'll bounce your game if they can see jaggies, but if its the only thing holding back a game, it will most likely ship)

Other standards like framerate and ping are measurable. The resolution isnt.

Anyways. The PS3 has been a 2 year train wreck. I fear to watch, yet I cannot turn away. The 360 and Wii have had positive news, cool games to show, demonstrations that wowed viewers leading up to their launches. It'll make a big difference.

Now, when you tell your PS3 that you have a 1080i only set (this is configured within the PS3 configuration) and you put in a game that supports only 720p and below, the PS3 can't upscale it to 1080i but can (and does) downscale to 480p. The 360 has a built-in scaler that can and does upscale 720p to 1080i and therefore sends the signal to the TV in 1080i avoiding this problem on these older sets.

I guess this is the only explanation that makes sense, well that or the IGN testers don't know what they are doing.

My problem with this explanation is that if you take that as fact then you are saying that the PS3 assumes that if you select 1080i as your resolution you can't display 720p and therefore it automatically renders any game that is 720p to 480p. The problem here is that many displays can accept both so even on displays that could accept 720p they would then be rendering the game at 480p.