2007/08 Soccer Thread - Euro Fever!

ASIDE: There are two great podcasts available right now for your perusal and listening. The Guardian's got a pretty good one, which is a great deal more informal and more "Guys sitting around table"-like than Soccernet's version.

Both will do you fine to keep you up on the game, although both are still pretty focused on the Premiership, so if you're a La Liga fellow, you're SOL.

et cetera et cetera.

Like Anderlecht snatching a point in Greece

I hope next match, home against cheaters AC Milan, we will finally show our talent. Boussoufa, Hassan, Biglia, Leiva: keep an eye on them, my friends.

You wanna know who won the Jupiler League in my last game of FM?

Genk. A team formed in 1988 won the title. Anderlecht finished 4th and was knocked out of the Inter-Toto cup by Trans, some team from Estonia. Now it's 2007, they're in 4th again, everyone but Vanden Borre left, and a player they bought from Al-Ahli is providing all the goals.

All i'm saying is that it's gotta be a sign of some sort.

(Pay no attention to the fact that 5/6/7 in the Premiership went Charlton/Birmingham/West Brom)

EDIT: Oh, and Bart Goor's still there, but he's never leaving.

Has anyone signed up for UEFA.com's newfangled sooper-expensive internet broadcasts of CL games? Can anyone tell me whether I should be blowing $40 on it?

Aside to the Aside: As an idea from a Blog I found, and, since I got a chance to watch El-Hadji Diouf act like a tool against Portsmouth, I present to you my "Total Assholes XI"

GK: Oliver Kahn
Defense: Ben Thatcher, Cashley Cole, Khalid Boulharouz, Titus Bramble (Okay, he isn't an ass, he's just so godawfully awful)
Midfield: Lee Bowyer, Mark van Bommel, Kieron Dyer, Random Portugese NT Player
Attack: Craig Bellamy, Nicolas Anelka

Pred, I must thank you for keeping this thread alive. I just can't seem to find the time to watch the games/follow the results on the internet very well at the moment. But here you are giving me a decent summary of some of the events in a place I visit as often as I can anyway. So thank you.

As for actual Football news, I don't really have any. But I like you list of the Total Assholes, although I think you should put it off till later in the season, when some players might start thinking they are better then the teams they are playing for are.

BTW have any of you ever tried hattrick

Great XI, Pred.
What is it about German goalies and being assholes? Lehman does his country proud on the asshole front, as well. In the ManU v Arsenal game, he shoved John O'Shea and shouted some obscenities at him for no reason at all. The camera was then perfectly positioned to catch O'Shea to turn around and say 'Prick.' right to his face. Priceless.

I know I've brought it up before, but I can't stand Diouf. He's a thug and doesn't deserve to be playing at the highest level. If he wants to play alley-ball, then go back to the alley.
I think you're right about Bramble. I don't think he's actually that mean-spirited. Instead, he's kinda like a teenager - alittle gangly with motor control difficulties.

I'd probably include Cristiano Ronaldo as one of the Assholes. Not for a physical play style, but for just general attitude problems.

Including Titus really was cruel by me, because I haven't seen or heard anything that makes me think he's an asshole. Not in the classical sense. He is an asshole to Newcastle fans however, because he and Jean-Alain Boumsong (Current Goals For Juventus - 1. Current Goals Against Juventus, While Playing For Juventus - 1.) have submarined so many perfectly good games for the 'Toon it's hilarious. For the love of god, Soccernet put him on the most recent Team of the Week because... well... read for yourself...

Titus Bramble was at the heart of everything Everton did well in the 1-1 draw with Newcastle. The Magpies defender let his man go on multiple occasions, failed to make key tackles, could have concede a penalty, stood and watched as Tim Cahill headed Everton's goal at the back post and then got sent-off......this is Team Of The Weak isn't it?

The man is... a legend.

Liv-er-Peeugh!

Is there any team in the Premiership more capable of knocking off one of the big-boys on any day than Bolton? They screw with every single one of the elites to no end, and will never finish higher than 5th. 2-0 to Bolton over 'Pool today.

Arsenal continues the run of form with a 2-1 win over Charlton, featuring a strike by Robin van Persie that, apparently, was fantastic. I couldn't see it because I was listening to minute-by-minute updates on TalkSport, but i'd advise you hit up YouTube within the next 48 hours or so and watch it, it's supposed to be gorgeous.

And Aston Villa pulls a draw with Chelsea at 1-1. Not the most exciting day in Premiership history, but there's more fun to come tomorrow. Meanwhile, i've got to figure out how to stop this malaise settling in at my club in FM.

Zaque, I have a Hattrick team: VC Dhau, team-id = 191903. We should play a friendly next week!

Pred, RC Genk has risen like a phoenix (the name of their stadium, coincidentally) from the ashes of Waterschei and Winterslag, two neigbouring and rivaling towns in Limburg (eastern Belgian province). Both played in 1st division before their inevitable downfall, after which they were more or less forced into fusion.

They have since then already won the title twice and the cup once, in real life. But FM has always had weird results for the Belgian competition nonetheless. Charleroi and Beveren used to be overpowered, Genk is somewhat more realistic.

Spurs won.
Wasn't pretty, and it serves as a grim reminder that there are clear problems in our midfield, but we won.
Zokora needs to be reminded that this isn't Côte d'Ivoire, and we earn our goals through play, not through play-acting. Hopefully, Jol and the rest of the squad will do that. I still find it interesting that his Wiki has included the controversy, less than 24 hours later.

It has to be a tough balance to try and capitalize on the win, while at the same time putting the right mentality in your players. You don't want them playing like a bunch of South American hooligans, but you want to be able to scrape together every ounce of momentum to get yourself back on track.

I watched the van Persie volley on the highlights on FSC last night, and yes, it was indeed glorious.

Yeah, that Zokora dive was... quite the spectacle, to be sure. Then said, who am I to say what might've happened, lord knows how much wind a running Pedro Mendes might've created?

Unfortunately dejanzie I gave up my team a year and a half ago because I didn't have the time. And the time difference was killing me. I made the team when I was in Denmark.

I know its early, but it does really look like Reading is doing a great job. They might even not end up in the bottom 5. Has anyone been able to watch Man City, I would like to get an opinion on how Beasley is doing, since it doesn't look like he's starting yet.

He got his second game as a Sub v. Everton, and by all reports, was largely unimpressive. If he's still carrying his WC form with him, we may never see him again until he slinks back to the MLS.

The great thing about the Euro 2008 Qualifiers this year, is that it's gone compeletely nuts.

Over the weekend, France lost to Scotland, England drew with Macedonia, and Cyrpus demolished Ireland 5-2. Spain lost 2-0 to Sweden, not much was going right for anyone.

So every other country set the ship right this Wednesday, save for England, who looked utterly pants against Croatia, and lost 2-0. One of which was a comedy own goal. The question i'm hearing bandied about now is not whether Steve McClaren isn't a good enough manager, although he probably isn't, it's really whether England are actually good enough to consider themselves a World Class side? Signs are starting to point to no, although there is always much wailing and gnashing of teeth whenever the slightest thing goes wrong for any of football's "elite" nations.

Also, someone tell the MLS that the current league setup is stupid. You've got 12 teams, let them play each other three times in a European league format, and run the U.S. Open cup concurrently to that. Easy do's.

England likes the 1-0 result.

Chelsea 1 - 0 Barcelona

Bordeaux 0 - 1 Liverpool

CSKA Moscow 1 - 0 Arsenal

Manchester United 3 - 0 FC Cophenhagen

Alright, so not a clean sweep. Drogba's been a revitalized man this year, his goal against Barca was a wonder to be seen.

Real Madrid 2 - 0 Barcelona

Chelsea 2 - 1 Portsmouth Sheva even scored!

Man U 2 - 0 Liverpool Is anyone else surprised that Man U is top? Anyone? And that Liverpool is 11 points out already?

Reading 0 - 4 Arsenal I still think Reading is staying up. Watford and Sheffield are screwed already.

Now is also the time of joy for all you Soccer gamers like me. Why?

1.) Football Manager 2007 has just hit shelves and is, as always, the best version of the game, and the best available Sports sim out there. (Yes, the best Sports sim. Nothing else comes close.)

2.) Winning Eleven 10/Pro Evolution Soccer 6/Whatever has just been released in Europe. Which means you can buy the PC version for yourself if you can't wait, like me. The bad news is that the PC version is another direct port of the PS2 version, and won't run the engine that the 360 version will. Hopefully, by the U.S. release date in the spring, i'll have a 360 and will be able to play on both the PC and 360 (yes, i'm that stupid).

3.) FIFA 07. Yes, I know i'm a well-known EA Sports hater. Given the piece of poo-poo that is NBA Live 07, I feel entirely justified in being one. However, FIFA 07 is a surprisingly well-made title. I recently copped a used copy from the local Software Etc. and, to my surprise, it wasn't half bad. The ball finally moves realistically, shooting has gotten a much-needed overhaul, things are, for lack of a better phrase, seemingly all good. I haven't put in enough time yet, but in what i've seen, i've been impressed.

HAW HAW HAW

Oh goodness, those are the kind of junkies i'd like to watch.

Anywho, the weekend's results...

Arsenal 1 - 1 Everton

Bolton 0 - 4 Man Utd

Liverpool 3 - 1 Aston Villa

Sheffield United 0 - 2 Chelsea

And a number of other results from smaller clubs. Take note of Man U's hammering of Bolton, a team who, prior to this, had not conceded a goal at the Reebok this season. Could Man U's title challenge actually have merit? Personally, i'm still not sold.

Rafa Benitez's rotation policy is driving everyone on Merseyside insane, save for Everton fans, whom it's tickling pink. There's something horribly wrong at West Ham, and Newcastle... Jesus Christ Newcastle. 8 points from 10 and the 'Toon is just two points out of the relegation zone. Good times.

Lyon is kicking the hot holy poop out of everyone in France (to the tune of a 10-1-0 start, with twenty seven goals for).

Inter Milan is tied atop Serie A with.... Palermo?

And Werder Bremen are scoring a lot too.

And i'd hate to be a snob, but I know the MLS playoffs have started, and I no longer particularly care. I should, I admit, but guh.

Prederick wrote:

And a number of other results from smaller clubs. Take note of Man U's hammering of Bolton, a team who, prior to this, had not conceded a goal at the Reebok this season. Could Man U's title challenge actually have merit? Personally, i'm still not sold.

Yeah especially when you find out they loose to FCK on Wed. in the Champions league. I know they didn't really need to win the game, but still loosing to a team who had never even scored in proper Champions league play doesn't sound good.

Prederick wrote:

And i'd hate to be a snob, but I know the MLS playoffs have started, and I no longer particularly care. I should, I admit, but guh.

Yeah me either, I even saw a bit of two of the games while flipping channels. I didn't even bother staying put and watching them for more than 2 minutes, they just aren't that exciting. Maybe I'll try and watch the final, but probably not.

Yes, more Champions League action today. I would reccomend the Arsenal v. CSKA Moscow game to anyone looking for a definition of "profligate finishing". Tomas Rosicky committed an all-time howler, which occurred when Thierry Henry had beaten his marker, run for the byline, drawn out Akinfeev (the CSKA goalkeeper) and crossed back for a number of Arsenal players. The ball came to Rosicky, and, from AT MOST five yards out, with, quite literally, THE WHOLE NET TO SHOOT FOR, Rosicky kicked it back INTO AKINFEEV's HANDS.

Video is not yet up on Youtube, but i'm sure it will be. You have to see it to believe it.

So, despite carving out more scoring opportunities than probably any team ever, Arsenal had a 0-0 draw. And Man U lost to the aforementioned team from Denmark.

Yesterday's fun is all about Chelsea v. Barcelona, which finished 2-2 in the Nou Camp, and featured all of the whining histrionics you were afraid of.

Handbags at 30 Paces!

No other team in the Premiership gets unstuck quite like Arsenal. They ooze style, but graft, no likey.

So Chelsea lose to Tottenham thanks to a blinder from Aaron Lennon, Aston Villa beat Blackburn 2-0, Dirk Kuyt nets two against Reading (who are still staying up I say), and Man U celebrated 20 years of Fergie by beating the tar out of Portsmouth 3-0.

En Espana, Sevilla is top after Barca drew 1-1 with Deportivo, and it's still Inter and Palermo at the top of Serie A.

But, this week's question is whether Newcastle is on the verge of becoming a new Leeds United? Leeds, for the uninitiated, had explored the highs of Champions Leauge football as recently a 2000-01 when they managed to make it to the Semi-Finals before going out to Valencia. Currently they're mired in next-to-last place in the Championship, much like Newcastle, who, after losing 1-0 to Sheffield United, are also next-to-last. Could they be relegated? Well, to quote The Guardian...

Glenn Roeder finished seventh at Watford and they were relegated the following season. He finished seventh at West Ham; the next season they got relegated. In his first season at Newcastle he finished seventh...

For the record: PES6 is a great game. PES5 suffered a bit too much from midfield play without any excilaration (it's still a _game_, Konami!), but this has completely gone. Lots of chances and smooth gameplay, but scoring seems to have become even harder. The own keeper AI does some really weird stuff at times, too. Like running out of his goal to defend between the penalty area and the middle. And NO, I wasn't pressing through ball

Prederick wrote:

3.) FIFA 07. Yes, I know i'm a well-known EA Sports hater. Given the piece of poo-poo that is NBA Live 07, I feel entirely justified in being one. However, FIFA 07 is a surprisingly well-made title. I recently copped a used copy from the local Software Etc. and, to my surprise, it wasn't half bad. The ball finally moves realistically, shooting has gotten a much-needed overhaul, things are, for lack of a better phrase, seemingly all good. I haven't put in enough time yet, but in what i've seen, i've been impressed.

Wow. You think you know a guy, then... BAM! Out of left field!

Seriously, that's good to hear. I enjoyed the FIFA World Cup, but I was seriously thinking that I could just let '07 pass me by and maybe pick up in '08. That may not be the case now.

Huge win for Spurs. Lennon's strike was unbelievable, but it was Dawson that put them back in the game. Granted, it would have been a completely different pace if Drogba was onside, but then again, Spurs missed three or four great chances in the first half as well. Fantastic game to watch, and a good result for us. Starting to get some form back.

dejanzie wrote:

For the record: PES6 is a great game. PES5 suffered a bit too much from midfield play without any excilaration (it's still a _game_, Konami!), but this has completely gone. Lots of chances and smooth gameplay, but scoring seems to have become even harder. The own keeper AI does some really weird stuff at times, too. Like running out of his goal to defend between the penalty area and the middle. And NO, I wasn't pressing through ball ;-)

You think? My opinion on PES5 has come around in recent months, from a 10/10 to a 6/10 (mind you, FIFA 06 was a 3-4/10). The game's flaws in Single Player were just laughably bad. From some of the sites i've checked, they still haven't fixed a lot of the problems in PES6. Although the refereeing isn't as dumb, it allows contact now, but the ever-presently annoying "Speed Cheat" is still in full effect for the AI. I understand you want to force your players to have to work to get free, but, like so many other games, I get peeved when I watch some ponderous Central Defender from Latvia outrun Thierry Henry in a dead sprint. The through ball AI needed a ton of work, Defending needed a lot of work (hitting the "Call Second Defender" button was nigh-on useless unless you wanted to foul them) and the AI needed a wholesale overhaul (I.E. - Players do not defend by charging at you full speed, and Titus Bramble has made about two inch perfect tackles in his life, moreover the offensive AI was piss-poor, with the occasional game where it'd win 1-0 on one shot on target that was either a corner or a 30-yard belter while you'd pepper the net with 15 shots and get nada).

I'll be buying FM2007 before I get PES6 because of these things. I really am beginning to wonder if the Japanese gaming scene as a whole cares enough about AI to really put the work that is needed into the PES series, rather than just sticking with this "It's hard because it is" BS.

Anywho, back to the Real football...

United stay top, while Chelsea win and Drogba continues to play out of his head. Arsenal smacks around Liverpool and I repeat, Reading is staying up. And it's all gone horribly wrong for Charlton. And Newcastle, but what else is new?

En Espana, Ruud hit four goals to knock off Osasuna, while Ronaldinho netted two to help beat Zaragoza 3-1. Like I said when I left, anyone who said Ruud was over it is a freaking moron.

And in Italy, Zlatan Ibrahimovic managed to get himself a goal and sent off. Nice one.

So Barca's still top of La Liga (by a point), Palermo is actually atop Serie A (by Goals Scored) and, if such things interest you, Stuttgart's atop the Bundesliga.

I'll try and address some of your pain points in PES5, every last one of them made me feel "yeah, say it brother, cheerio, hip hip" and the likes.

- Speed cheat still there. Yesterday they fouled me after breakthrough on the edge of the box, and he got NOTHING while he should have gotten red. Frustrating!
- Through ball AI is muchos improvos. Really plays a lot smoother now. In general, attacking is much more fluent and natural.
- A lot less dumb fouls: ref keeps his whistle in his pocket much more often. In fact, shielding the ball has been the greatest improvement over PES5. You have a feeling of control again. The game is a bit more forgiving, which was very necessary.
- Calling in another defender to your help has not improved, if anything it has gotten worse.
- Defense AI is practically the same, haven't noticed any big changes.
- About the lots of chances and no goals, and 1 shot 1 goal: that's football, baby! The most despised and revered part of our beloved game

dejanzie wrote:

- About the lots of chances and no goals, and 1 shot 1 goal: that's football, baby! The most despised and revered part of our beloved game ;-)

I'd buy that, but those matches always had a certain frustrating "feel" to them. Let me describe a situation that happened to me too many times...

I'd be playing some inferior team who would be just going crazy. They'd be pressing me with two men all over the pitch (at top speed, with no ill-effects from fatigue), some lightweight striker would be tackling like Claude Makelele, and I can't make a yard of space (not helped by the fact that my men are moving into incredibly dumb positions). Eventually, what happens is that it breaks, but because its AI is usually pretty cruddy, it won't be a very good break. My fullback will inexplicably wander somewhere meaningless despite me SPECIFICALLY TELLING HIM TO MARK THE WINGER, allowing said winger to get clear on the flanks. I chase him down, he crosses into the box, and we manage to head it away. Then, one of two things happen...

1.) The loose ball falls to me (rare). The AI comes charging in with some midfielder at top speed, prepared to make an inch-perfect tackle on the ball. Reading this, I try to turn away, it follows, hot on my heels. I execute a 180-degree turn that forces my player to actually stop, adjust and start again. The AI makes the same turn WITHOUT STOPPING AT TOP SPEED and positions itself perfectly for the tackle, the loose ball inevitably falling to another AI player's feet.

2.) The loose ball falls to the AI (frequently). I manage to close it down pretty well, and might actually get in a tackle (occasionally, I have seen the world's best players make the dumbest attempts at a tackle, or literally phase through the ball. The AI has an uncanny ability to sneak around many tackles though) which immediately bobbles away either to another AI player or out of bounds. Then I chase down this NEW AI player, who, the minute I so much as go shoulder-to-shoulder with him, hits the ground like Pippo Inzaghi. Free-kick to the AI.

Anyway, the way this story usually ends is that it gets a corner. There's one of it's players standing at the near post. I can see this. I know what's coming. I try to move men in to stop it. The ball is inexorably delivered right onto this player's skull, and he heads it home. The AI then ramps up the defense even further for the remainder of the match, literally closing me down with two men EVERYWHERE, men I cannot outrun or outturn (occasionally THREE men) with no ill effects from the fatigue of playing such an aggressive defense, and wins 1-0, with that it's only shot. I've had 4 or 5 of these games. Like I said, there's a feel to it, and it's absolutely infuriating.

My problem with PES, currently, is that I always feel like i'm playing a difficulty level, and not a team. I understand that PES is only representing the world's top-level teams, but any idiot can tell you there's a significant gulf in class between Chelsea and Watford. If the AI is playing as the latter and i'm the former, I should see them come out defensively, hoping to hit us on the break, but still dealing with the fact that we're faster, and better on and off the ball than them. In those kinds of games, if the Chelsea team lose, it's because they played awfully, not because the latter outplayed them. It's a fine balance to be struck to represent how a team like Sheffield United could steal a point from Arsenal, but I guarantee you that half the problem in real life was lazyness, disinteresed players and profligate finishing, not David Unsworth chasing down Shawn Wright-Phillips. (Or Olivier De c*ck chasing down Mbo Mpenza, for a more regional example).

Wow. That's quite a rant. Well, just to make things even, even with all of this said, the gameplay in FIFA is still second-rate compared to this anywho, and I must say again, in Vs., this is the best sports game i've ever played.

Phew, now with that out of my system...

There's a crisis in Milan, a hilarious Ref in Spain and Hooligans in Argentina.

Charlton's Iain Dowie got canned, a none-too-bright Manager who may not be in Charge at Luton for long, and tomorrow's highlight, a Friendly between Holland and England that gives Mr. McClaren the chance to repair his reputation a bit. Although it's arguable how good a job he and England will end up doing. England > The Netherlands? Erm...

I love a good rant!

This all hit home with me, you're absolutely right. PES often has that frustrating feel. The only thing that has changed is that the ref doesn't blow his whistle quite as often. Ten more PES editions and we'll be getting somewhere

Bonus Link! Bonus Link!

Say hello to 101 Great Goals. Using the wonders of YouTube, 101 Great Goals is a fantastic place to catch up on all the best goals from the EPL, Serie A and La Liga. Mind you, the authorities from each league are trying to crack down on this stuff these days, so be quick about it if you want to see the goals.

This Weekend's Events - In Short

Arsenal draw Newcastle
Chelsea win
Man U win.
Charlton are doomed.
Liverpool look oddly toothless.
More Champions League this week! Hooray!

Well....

That Man U - Chelsea game? Sucked. A ton. 1-1 finisht hat might've been better used for a nap. Here's a link to an appropriately snarky Minute-by-minute report from The Guardian.

Although it came at the expense of Fulham, again, I assure you, Reading is staying up. 1-0 to the Royals.

Tottenham win 3-1 over Wigan with two goals from Berbatov, while Anelka gets one over on Wenger, putting in two to help Bolton beat Arsenal 3-1, and ensure that only two teams have any title challenge this year. This is the obvious upside to the playoffs in North America. There are still 5 1/2 months of the Premiership left, and only two teams have any shot at the title.

From the Rest of Europe...

Francesco Totti is very good.

Ronaldinho is very good.

Tuesday roundup...

Chelsea may be interested in David Villa of Valencia. Of course, for them to get him, it'll take some $195M, according to Valencia's chairman. But why would Chelsea be interested in another striker? Perhaps because Andriy Shevchenko has been a multi-million-pound bust. It's harsh on him, it really is, but he's been nigh-on invisible this year, save for a tap-in and it's not looking like it's going to get any better. I hope he comes out.

Remember that speedy little winger who used to play for Manchester City? Remember how he left for Chelsea, and, like Scott Parker before him, hasn't been seen since? Well, Shaun Wright-Phillips may finally be removing himself from the bench at Stamford Bridge, as a number of clubs are hoping to secure his services. Here's hoping, for his sake, he won't end up on Tyneside.

I think, starting this weekend, i'm going to start picking games. EPL only, as I just don't get enough stuff from the other leagues. Anyone feel like joining in?

Its only a good thing for SWP that he gets out from under Jose's thumb. It was a bad decision moving there in the first place, but hey, with that money, I'd probably have gone too.
There's the issue, I think. I'd want to be playing. That's your job.

Prederick wrote:

I think, starting this weekend, i'm going to start picking games. EPL only, as I just don't get enough stuff from the other leagues. Anyone feel like joining in?

Yeah, I'll have a go. We did this last year in The League, but haven't picked it up this season. We going to keep score?

Just as a short-cut, here are the games for next week:
ARS v TOT
RDG v BOL
POR v AVL
WIG v LIV
BLA v FUL
SU v CHA
MID v MANU
EVE v WHAM
MANC v WAT
TOT v MID
CHA v BLA
WHAM v WIG
NEW v RDG

This is Genius

Anywho, the big stories...

Arsenal beats Tottenham 3-0, amid rumors of a bust-up between Thierry Henry and Arsene Wenger. Could Henry actually leave Arsenal in January?

I intensely doubt it.

Man U will be getting the services of Henrik Larson for 2-3 months in January, which I think is just genius.

And if Barcelona don't win tomorrow against Werder Bremen, the holders are out of the Champions League.