All of us are polishing turds.

Interesting little article, Grumpicus.

Related info on the dorodango that are mentioned. Learn something new everyday.

There is some truth to that.. but I'd say its more 50/50 split between seeing the new content and then the success of beating and then mastering that said content..The shiny new toys are a side benefit to that pursuit.

It also should be noted that we mmorpg players are polishing virtual turds, that only exist in our imaginations.

I've called MMOGs "knitting" for a long time, and that's what they are to me.
Yes, sometimes it's more involved, but the vast majority of the time, I can disconnect most of my brain and do something fairly repetitive and relatively mindless to relax and click the stress of the day away.

duckilama wrote:

I've called MMOGs "knitting" for a long time, and that's what they are to me.
Yes, sometimes it's more involved, but the vast majority of the time, I can disconnect most of my brain and do something fairly repetitive and relatively mindless to relax and click the stress of the day away.

Very true. For every day you spend brainstorming with Thotbott and a variety of spreadsheets on how to get all the proper mats for your new recipes, there's two days of mindless yet mellowing grinding/farming.

It's like watching a sitcom. Sure you could watch something a bit more clever, but settling in to watch an episode of Joey satisifies the relaxed brain state

sad. true.

I too have realized that the real "hook" to WoW is improving your character - that being said, the times that I enjoy the most are when I have a good group with others. These days I solo as little as possible (at least, with my main). I try to find a guildie or two to group with, even if we have no quests in common, or I form a PUG and afterwards have more people on my friends list.

The game is not worth playing as a single player game, imho, but it's the only multiplayer role-playing game that I've tried, and as such, it offers a unique and very fun experience (I'm anticipating trying Neverwinter Nights 2 with some GWJers, hopefully!).

Still, I loves me some phat l00t!

The game is not worth playing as a single player game, imho,

I disagree, but not completely.

When I feel like raiding or running late-game instances, I have my paladin.
When I only feel like hanging out with Peecaboo, we have a mage-warrior duo in their teens.
When I want to "be alone together" I have my NE Hunter.
When I want to be alone, quiet, knitting alone, I have a Orc Hunter that's GWJ guilded and a Undead Warrior that's unguilded.

Sometimes, I want WoW to be mostly Single Player, and I have alts created specifically for that.
Sometimes, I want WoW to be what people think of when you say MMOG, and that's what my paladin is for.

I just think that, for single player, Oblivion is the best RPG I've ever seen, although I'm not sure it's as "knitting" friendly as WoW is, by your definition. I've never really wanted to kill anything without cause in Oblivion, whereas I've killed just to grind XP many times in WoW.

I'm finding that WoW is dominating my gaming time to the exclusion of almost everything else. I'm not sure what the proper balance is, as I don't want to fall behind some of the people that I like to play with, and I do want to make 60 and see some of these 20 mans that y'all have been doing.

It's good to take a break or at least set one night a week where you say "absolutely, without a doubt, no touching WoW. No auction house, no farming, nada."

Then, pick up one of your neglected games, and give it some tender loving

I'm not sure what the proper balance is, as I don't want to fall behind some of the people that I like to play with, and I do want to make 60 and see some of these 20 mans that y'all have been doing.

I'm of two minds on this.
One is, get out while you still can.
The other is, think of all the money you'll save by not buying new games all the time!

MMOGs are not the only 'polishing turds' genre. There are at least a few single player games that appeal to folks for the exact same reason. Diablo I/II and Titan Quest come most readily to mind (I know these can be multiplayer too) but there are many others that use at least an element of the 'playing just to improve my character' formula. Privateer, X2/X3 and the Sims are examples of these that I've played. I'm certain there are more. In all of these the plot is almost secondary to the 'grind'.

I must admit that the only single player game I've played since I started WoW has been Titan Quest and that's only because I have no net connection at home while I'm in the process of moving. Duckilama is definitely rightin that WoW does save you money.

Sometimes I feel like I'm polishing turds at work just for a paycheque. And seriously, it can be a bit more mind-numbing than grinding for Furblog rep, that's-for-damn-sure!

/Back to the polishing

I am with Swat on the whole setting a day aside for other games or even just getting away from gaming in general. One can find plenty stories of gamers neglecting family or dropping out of school because they played WOW too much. Sure you are looking forward to being 60 and new experiences but take your time most of the people that are still playing right now aren't going anywhere else soon. If you are leaning towards WOW or doing something else just do that something else it is better for you and your health.

I agree with georob on his comment. I would go so far as saying you don't even have to play an MMO or a game you have to level up a character (grind). The millions that play FPS like Counterstike play to be better than others as well and they don't even get a shiny item to show off. This is no new age concept that the author of the article is presenting.

In an effort to sharpen both our quality time and our "separate but equal" time, I have declared that tonight be a night of extended quality time. My fiancee and I almost never, say, watch a movie on a weeknight, because we don't really plan to. Don't eat until 7 or 7:30, and by the time we're done eating (and watching whatever TIVO'd thing we were watching), there's not enough time before she goes to sleep. So I'm trying to institute more "date nights" during the week. Hopefully, this will also allow me to institute some nights where we plan to each do our own thing after dinner. Right now it seems like I get on WoW for at most an hour on a weeknight, and don't really get much accomplished (I did get some quets last night, and helped/tried to help Coping get a few as well). If I could get a solid two hours on the nights when we don't really do anything in particular, that would be fabulous, regardless of whether it goes towards WoW or (heaven forbid!) another game.

duckilama wrote:

The other is, think of all the money you'll save by not buying new games all the time!

That's how I've been looking at it. Every time I look at an up and coming game, I think "Eh, I 'll just play WoW some more and save some dough. And then, I'll take that dough and buy gold!" (Kidding on the gold thing, let's not do that one again.)

Dream wrote:

Sure you are looking forward to being 60 and new experiences but take your time most of the people that are still playing right now aren't going anywhere else soon. If you are leaning towards WOW or doing something else just do that something else it is better for you and your health. ... I would go so far as saying you don't even have to play an MMO or a game you have to level up a character (grind). The millions that play FPS like Counterstike play to be better than others as well and they don't even get a shiny item to show off.

I think the big difference between an MMORPG and other multiplayer games (and the thing that I think will eventually be the reason I leave WoW) is the level system basically mandates a range in which characters can play together, or at least play together in a productive fashion. It's a bummer to know that if I or any of my buddies play significantly more than each other, our quest sets and areas we frequent will drift apart.

If I'm half the CSer my buddy is, at least we can cover each others backs without one person being bored. Even in Planetside I could still group with higher level characters - I wasn't as versatile in terms of roles, but I was just as useful in the roles I could play.

More than anything, the desire to get off the treadmill and be able to focus 100% on simply playing together, without the worry that in two weeks my fun little group will no longer be fun to play with, is the biggest drive I have to hit 60.

Staats wrote:

I think the big difference between an MMORPG and other multiplayer games (and the thing that I think will eventually be the reason I leave WoW) is the level system basically mandates a range in which characters can play together, or at least play together in a productive fashion. It's a bummer to know that if I or any of my buddies play significantly more than each other, our quest sets and areas we frequent will drift apart.

THIS IS WHAT I HATE ABOUT MMOs. It killed DDO for me. The only reason that it hasn't killed WoW for me is that there are more Goodjers playing. I've never played with, say, duckedeva or GioClark because they are at 60. I've played with ducki and Deep once, when they were playing alts. I'm fortunate in that there are several players who have mains in my level range, and a few more who have alts in that range. At first, though, I was really just in the GWJ guild for the chat camraderie and hints. Happily, right now we have more people in the late 20s/early 30s that we have more people in the range for, say, Gnomer, than we have slots for.

I hate to play alone, so if for some reason we drift apart, or people drop out, etc., I would probably lose interest. Right now, I'm pretty engaged. Being able to schedule an instance run every couple weeks is great for my interest level.

I do not know if the problem of not being able to play together with characters of different levels is solvable in an RPG like WoW, but if it is, someone needs to get on it!

I totally agree, if it wasn't for my family and friends (and extended goodjer friends) I probably wouldn't touch WoW with a 10 foot pole. If everyone simulataneously stopped playing, I'd do the same. I don't care too much for random internet people.

There originally wasn't a problem with playing together no matter what level you were in WOW. It was after a large part of the community complained about 60s rushing low level characters though the game that changes were made to turn it into the system it is now.

At first, though, I was really just in the GWJ guild for the chat camraderie and hints.

TerraNova talks about this a lot, and is what I was referencing when I said "being alone together".

Dream wrote:

There originally wasn't a problem with playing together no matter what level you were in WOW. It was after a large part of the community complained about 60s rushing low level characters though the game that changes were made to turn it into the system it is now.

I didn't know there were changes. What changes? There was always an exp cap, wasn't there?

Re: Post article; that was a really groovy analogy, and well written. Thanks for sharing!

Fedaykin98 wrote:

In an effort to sharpen both our quality time and our "separate but equal" time, I have declared that tonight be a night of extended quality time. My fiancee and I almost never, say, watch a movie on a weeknight, because we don't really plan to. Don't eat until 7 or 7:30, and by the time we're done eating (and watching whatever TIVO'd thing we were watching), there's not enough time before she goes to sleep. So I'm trying to institute more "date nights" during the week. Hopefully, this will also allow me to institute some nights where we plan to each do our own thing after dinner. Right now it seems like I get on WoW for at most an hour on a weeknight, and don't really get much accomplished (I did get some quets last night, and helped/tried to help Coping get a few as well). If I could get a solid two hours on the nights when we don't really do anything in particular, that would be fabulous, regardless of whether it goes towards WoW or (heaven forbid!) another game.

This is a good idea. I normally only play a few nights during the week, but on those nights I'm on for a minimum of 3 hours straight. It makes the game a lot easier, and a lot more enjoyable, as you can plan a good number of things to finish out, and have more than enough time to do them. Not playing every night will keep you wanting to come back, instead of burning out on a lot of short logins.

Also, this reduces your fiance threat, and that's always a good thing.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

The only reason that it hasn't killed WoW for me is that there are more Goodjers playing. I've never played with, say, duckedeva or GioClark because they are at 60. I've played with ducki and Deep once, when they were playing alts. I'm fortunate in that there are several players who have mains in my level range, and a few more who have alts in that range. At first, though, I was really just in the GWJ guild for the chat camraderie and hints. Happily, right now we have more people in the late 20s/early 30s that we have more people in the range for, say, Gnomer, than we have slots for.

I'm really tempted to create a new character now... I discovered a friend of mine was a whole ten levels above me when I logged on last night.

What's the wait time on Blackhand?

What's the wait time on Blackhand?

Usually about 10 minutes during weeknight peak (8 - 10 PM Central) and as much as 20 minutes during Sunday night peak. However, most times outside of peak there is no wait or it is just minimal.

duckideva wrote:

I didn't know there were changes. What changes? There was always an exp cap, wasn't there?

Re: Post article; that was a really groovy analogy, and well written. Thanks for sharing!

The changes I am refering to are the level requirements on the instances, and the distribution of experience when you kill a creature with someone else. Originally it didn't matter what level the person you were working with you got half the experience. But then changes were made to make the experience you got significantly less if the person you were working with was way above your own level or the creature you were fighting was way above your level as well.

Staats wrote:

I'm really tempted to create a new character now... I discovered a friend of mine was a whole ten levels above me when I logged on last night.

What's the wait time on Blackhand?

Do it! We're having a good ol' time right now. There are also plenty of people playing alts, so you shouldn't have a hard time finding someone from GWJ to play with.

Then, if you like it, you can transfer over any other characters so as not to lose your progress.

Copingsaw wrote:
What's the wait time on Blackhand?

Usually about 10 minutes during weeknight peak (8 - 10 PM Central) and as much as 20 minutes during Sunday night peak. However, most times outside of peak there is no wait or it is just minimal.

What I do is, after bathtime and before story and tuck-in time, I log in and start the queue. If I get in before I'm ready, I log in my unguilded horde toon, just to keep auto-logout at bay, occasionally popping in and making him jump to come out of /afk status.

That way, my effective wait time is zero, even if the actual wait time is 20 minutes.

Ugh, has Blackhand really gotten that bad? It was starting to get that way when I left late last year. Didn't a couple large guilds transfer to another server?

20 minutes is the worst I've seen of late, but that's rare. Worst night for queues is Sunday, best is Friday.
10 minutes is probably about normal. If I don't do my "log in early" routine, after tucking in the duckling, I'll log in and go get a soda, take the dog out, etc, and by the time I get back, I'm in.

I do not know if the problem of not being able to play together with characters of different levels is solvable in an RPG like WoW, but if it is, someone needs to get on it!

In CoH/CoV you can actually scale up or down so that you can play with friends of different levels.