Shadowrun decides it. Controller beats keyboard/mouse

Linky

Shadowrun is a premiere cross-platform title upcoming for Vista/360 and its testers found that on an even playing field, PC gamers were categorically decimated by console gamers.

GamesFirst wrote:

Balancing the gameplay between the two systems took a lot of trial and error. And contradictory to what most gamers would expect, the keyboard and mouse didn't dominate. In fact, it lost. Repeatedly.

"There will always be people that say the keyboard is better," Gross said during an interview on the floor of E3 2006. "In our game, we've found that's not the case. When we first started testing it, the keyboard tended to have an advantage in long distance combat, and the controller had an advantage in close combat. You could do things quicker on the controller (than the keyboard)."

...

"These were good, experienced Halo and Counterstrike players," Gross said when I suggested that maybe the PC team just wasn't up to par. "Some of these guys have held their own against Fatal1ty on the PC, and we put them against some pretty average console players."

The article goes on to say that as a result they tweaked the game to try and balance things. They claim that now good PC players are not losing to average console players. I wonder how the game feels now. Do the 360 players feel gimped so they dont just constantly pwn the poor PC gamers?

IMAGE(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/ena/lowres/enan43l.jpg)

Did the controllers have any sort of auto-aim on?

Wouldn't this just be more evidence that they're making a horrible game?

JoeBedurndurn wrote:

Wouldn't this just be more evidence that they're making a horrible game?

Possibly :>

The article says that PC/360 started on equal ground, which is probably a good start to balance from

It sounds like a fairly simple game so the testers are probably spending most of their time concentrating on making sure the game is balanced and competitive. Its the first time I know of that PC users have been able to play against console users in an action game. Perhaps the next game that tries it will find that their game is naturally easier for PC users.

An interesting note at the end of the article says that low-res/high-res/SD/HD didnt have much of a factor on the success of the player. If they have a good QA team they're probably logging all of their games with a great deal of detail to break things down like this.

They just want some publicity and they are getting it.

When the Xbox 360 wired controller came out (it plugs right into a windows machine) IGN did a showdown between the controller and mouse/keyboard in the windows version of Halo 1. The controller guys kicked the snot out of the mouse and keyboard. However, I believe Halo and probably Shadowrun are balanced for a controller, the characters run really slow. In a game like Quake 3, I don't think it would be much of a contest. I know some players that can headshot your from across a map in less than a second after seeing you.

I suspect that PC players think their mouse is so fantastic that they forget they are moving with one of the most primative setups in existence. Console players have an analog stick to move and can "walk" their crosshairs onto a target. Plus I've never miss-tapped a key on a controller.

meh, i'll believe it when i get my but consistantly handed to me by a console wielder.

Were the computer players able to adjust mouse sensitivity? I know if mines to low or high in say UT2004 i get destoryed left and right. Also, another key was if they could map keys to any button they want, alot of default key settings has players reaching all the way across the board to pull off some maneuvres.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Did the controllers have any sort of auto-aim on?

Yea the console version has heavy auto aim, pc version has none.

Sinatar wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Did the controllers have any sort of auto-aim on?

Yea the console version has heavy auto aim, pc version has none.

Where are you getting that from?

For some strange reason, mouse vs. controller is one of the most flameable topics I've ever seen pop up on a web forum

What the article doesn't address is why on Earth I should care what some people with controllers or mice do when they play each other - it's a moot point. I want the input scheme which brings me the most enjoyment. If someone beat me in Quake with a salmon, I doubt I'll suddenly decide I want to use a salmon as input from now on

Oh but you would. And you would thumb your nose at the lower input class and pound your chest with superiority, for clearly, you have the key to the ultimate in precision aiming. The Mouse is dead. Long live the Salmon!

I honestly think they are trying to bring more attention to this underwhelming game...

I still don't believe you can get the same kind of speed precision with that little thumbstick than you get from a mouse, without use of auto-aim. And if there's ANY auto-aim, it invalidates the results, period. If I'm in a MB SLR McLaren and you're in a beat up old Saab, and I beat you in a race, it doesn't mean I'm a better driver.

I just bought a new gaming salmon designed by Fatal1ty, I am pwning n00bs left and right, son. Sits there on my desk in a shallow fish tank....

I'm getting pretty sick of hearing about this Fatality guy. He could at least have chosen a less stereotypical name.

*Legion* wrote:
Sinatar wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Did the controllers have any sort of auto-aim on?

Yea the console version has heavy auto aim, pc version has none.

Where are you getting that from?

Of course, a great deal depends on how the two systems are configured. For example, if auto-aim is turned on for the Xbox 360 and not for the PC, that would make a substantial difference.

The piece also mentions turning auto aim on the PC. While not specifically saying auto aim was on in the console perhaps a bit inference could be applied knowing the style of console shooters?

In my limited experience with Xbox shooters (Ghost Recon) the hit box (or auto aim) was extermely generous. Simply put, shots that would've been misses on the PC were hitting on the Xbox.

Whatever happened to the console controller with the trackball? I've only found one mention of it from this year's E3. To me, this is the perfect solution for console FPS games. Left thumbstick for movement, right trackball for aiming. The only game I can think of off the top of my head that would be adversly affected would be fight night.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I've played Halo on the XBox and the PC. That colors my perspective. I am not an experienced consoler, this is true. However, I still cannot believe their "study" in the face of my own personal experience. I'd like to see a 360 version BF2 compatible with the PC one so some consolers can go up against the regular Goojers on Thursday night and see how they fare.

Original Article wrote:

Of course, a great deal depends on how the two systems are configured. For example, if auto-aim is turned on for the Xbox 360 and not for the PC, that would make a substantial difference.

Well, gee, jackass, no kidding. So why don't you freaking tell us whether it was on their tests? IMAGE(http://rps.net/QS/Images/Smilies/sarcastic.gif) The other thing making this "study" bogus is their reliance on a game that hasn't even been released yet. Maybe the PC version is just plain ass. The article is nothing but an extended advertisement.

Does this title have anything to do with the PnP game? Just wondering. I remember loving the Sega Saturn version of Shadowrun. It'd be neat to see an updated version of that game. The Saturn version was an RPG if I remember correctly.

*Legion* wrote:
Sinatar wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Did the controllers have any sort of auto-aim on?

Yea the console version has heavy auto aim, pc version has none.

Where are you getting that from?

E3. Lots of interviews with the devs, they specifically mentioned that.

Dont know which article you guys are reading but the one I linked to is not the results of a 'study' or 'advertisement' Its the results of an impromptu interview on the E3 floor. (however it is most certainly flame-bait :))

This quote sort of answers some of the questions put forth:

"We've been playing with the settings," said Gross. "We turned on magnetism (on the PC), some auto-aim. We adjusted the settings on the Xbox 360 to balance it out."

The information is based on their experience developing game. Their goal is to totally invalidate the PC/console argument by making things balanced. If they've done their job, it will be the skill of the user, not the tool that decides a match.

Sounds to me like they're doing this work to justify the whole XBox Live Anywhere concept, rather than make Shadowrun any better.

You guys remember the Space Ball? It was a controller that had a little rubber ball instead of a D-pad, which you could move in any direction and rotate. Wonder why they don't do that anymore.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Sounds to me like they're doing this work to justify the whole XBox Live Anywhere concept, rather than make Shadowrun any better.

You guys remember the Space Ball? It was a controller that had a little rubber ball instead of a D-pad, which you could move in any direction and rotate. Wonder why they don't do that anymore.

Ahhh..the Space Orb 360.

When that controller came out, I was tasked at work with getting it to properly work with our online Descent client. Honestly, I *really* liked that controller. Worked great for Quake as well. We had a small group of really vocal customers who were pushing us to support it, too. Seems like another case of a great idea that just never caught on.

-Fan

Does this title have anything to do with the PnP game? Just wondering. I remember loving the Sega Saturn version of Shadowrun. It'd be neat to see an updated version of that game. The Saturn version was an RPG if I remember correctly.

Not really. basically it was initially a FPS game and they decided to slap some Shadowrun ethos on it.

Oh. Bleh.

Meh. I'm a keyboard & mouse kind of guy. I still have one overwhelming question regarding this title: Why isn't this an RPG?

Because they couldn't make it not suck enough? And believe me, I'm one of the most disappointed over that fact.

Not only is it a lame counterstrike clone and not only does it look like sh*t, but it actually has been in development for 3 years, and in those 3 years the final game will ship with a whopping EIGHT maps. Eight. 3 years. Eight maps.

IMAGE(http://host89.ipowerweb.com/~childofa/Images/vandammebloodsport.gif)

Ok. Can we stop talking about this one now?

Forgive me for not having a link, but there was a transcript of an interview with one of the Unreal guys during E3 where he said that they had done some internal testing and found that there was no decisive advantage to either the keyboard/mouse or the console controller.