A GameFly In The Ointment

Enter the wide and glorious Imaginarium with me, if you will. Here we are, dear and gentle traveler, our feet alight upon the tiled and sticky floor of your favorite local fast food eatery. Upon the greasy counter you put five dollars, which the glassy eyed host processes away, never to return. Then, having already paid your greenbacks, you order a bacon cheeseburger with fries. The server stands there for a pregnant moment, a stony faced Adonis as sculpted by Toby Keith, and your persistently empty tray convinces you that the order is not forthcoming. You change tactics and order some chicken lumps with a side of thick and pungent sauces intended to make the meaty amalgams palatable. Again nothing.

“Why haven’t I gotten any food for the five dollars I spent?” you finally ask.

“You are ordering the wrong stuff,” is the terse response.

“Well, what should I be ordering?”

“We have some stale hamburger buns from last Thursday you can have.”

This, my pupils, is as succinct a comparison as I can swiftly draw to the experience of “upgrading” my GameFly account from 2 games a month to 3.

Another way to think about it is as being thrust suddenly into the Monty Python Cheese Shop Sketch . And after a brief palaver with customer support -- the final humorless insult -- the judgment at the end of the ordeal was that I was doing it wrong.

Let me repeat that: They told me that I was renting their video games the wrong way.

Before I elaborate on that point, let me give you my perspective on what I expected from GameFly. I expected that I would give them a monthly fee, and in return they would send me 3 video games as determined by a queue I created of, and this is important, games I wanted to play. Now, here’s where I think there is some disconnect. I expected, as they implied on paid advertising across multiple media, that those games I rented would be current and popular titles.

I don’t really think my expectations were that unreasonable. If you go to GameFly’s homepage as a non-account-holder you’ll see at the bottom a smorgasbord of current hits designed to tempt the meaty pleasure centers of your gamer-brain, many of which languished in my queue for more than a month. Even the company's television advertising suggests that no more will I have to suffer through bad games, though their slogan "Never Buy a Bad Game Again" would be far more accurate if "Rent Them Instead" were ammended to the end. What I find particularly interesting about this ad is that the behavior of the actors is a good representation of how I felt during my time as a their customer.

To be fair, I’m pretty used to getting crappy customer service as a video gamer. I’ve been to enough Gamestops to know that on the bad service scale we rank right above late night convenience store customer and right below airline passenger. I expect some time in the next century it will be accepted practice to throw rotten fruit at gamers as they process their transaction and then run them out of the store with rabid attack dogs. It is a well documented fact that all people who buy video games are internet thieves and should be treated with the same sensitivity and respect you would expect from a coked up strip-club bouncer with Tourettes.

But, at least Gamestop is upfront about their total lack of customer service. They practically have a sign on the door proclaiming their intent to hound you about pre-ordering every upcoming major release followed by intense and sustained mockery should you have the temerity to try and buy that game without said pre-order. And, for all of Gamestop’s pantheon of flaws, at the end when you pay money, you at least walk out with a bag containing something you presumably want. If I walked into their establishment wanting to buy Prototype, but was instead handed a copy of Ratchet and Clank Go To Federal Prison for my trouble, that would be more like renting from GameFly.

I realize many of you have GameFly accounts and have managed to game the system in such a way to reach some modicum of satisfaction. Let me stress that I hold neither ill-will toward you nor any expectation that you should change your renting habits. You have applied a mystical calculus to the problem and explore infinite limits of list manipulation to great effect, and while I choose not to audit your graduate level courses I don’t fault you for your effort. In fact, you are better served by my departure. That’s one less person trying to nab those precious game gems.

I heartily endorse, in fact, turning the entire operation over to you. I think everyone would be a whole lot happier if the GameFly subscribers who have received nothing save an endless array of last year’s mid-range titles up and quit the service. GameFly would no longer have its distribution and stocking problems. The executive users wouldn’t have to invest so heavily into statistical software and distributed computational structures to decipher the GameFly Queue, and those of us harangued by a persistent string of crappy games we didn’t actually want to play could take up fly fishing or leaf peeping.

After all, the choices are relatively few. My preferred option, putting only the 5 or 6 games I was actually interested in playing into my queue has been described officially as flawed. GameFly’s solution was to put games into my queue that I didn’t really want to play and then pay them for the pleasure of doing so. I found that option equally flawed, particularly when you consider that GameFly agents seem to scan your brain as you sleep and then use that data to make sure they send along the game you want the very least from your queue.

I’m not calling for nonsense like a boycott or a universal demand for consumer rights. I frankly don’t have the time to be the video game equivalent to a Sally Field movie. I simply will do what I hope more consumers of all kinds will do, stop paying for terrible service. Just as I now shop at the smaller Gamestop competitor, Play N Trade, I have abandoned GameFly even though I very much want to use their service as it is ideally described.

If you aren’t getting your money’s worth either, maybe you should consider doing the same.

Comments

Gamefly's struggle isn't only in the cost of games but also the duration that people are going to hold on to those games. I think managing inventory for Gamefly has got to be infinitely more difficult than for Netflix. With a two game plan at Gamefly I can hold one single game for nearly three months and it is still cheaper than having bought it plus I still have a second game in rotation. That's a pretty sweet deal to me.

The turnaround time on a game rental must be far longer than the turnaround time for movies from Netflix. Add in the significantly higher purchase cost and I think Gamefly finds themselves in a tough spot. Somehow they need to find a balance between demand, stock and profit. At some point simply buying more copies will not be cost effective for them. I'd be very interested in seeing metric from Gamefly on how long their discs are out on average.

Ultimately I think it comes down to this: if you really care about getting a specific game by a specific date, a rental system is not for you. That said, I've never failed to get a new released shipped out to me on the day it was released. If I miss that release day, yeah, it can be awhile. It seems like they do a good job of meeting day one demand but aren't as good at meeting demand a month or so out from release; there is certainly room for improvement.

lorenzolio wrote:

PS. Kidding aside, I actually I like gameaccess.ca. The few times I've had to talk to them they were stellar at customer service. But the same problems of too many people wanting the few new games, and slow shipping times, are still there.

I have to agree. They've had a lot of growing pains to be sure but they are a much smaller company than GameFly (when I first joined, it was like 3 people.) They've had some issues but they continue to improve their site and their processes and every time they've screwed up, they've offered me credit without me having to raise a real fuss. However, if you want new stuff, make sure you sign up for the reserve feature.

Thanks Elysium, for saving me from myself.

I've been teetering on the brink of signing up with Gamefly for months now. What's been stopping me was my self-awareness of how I play games. I like to have somewhere between 6 and 10 games 'on-the-go' at any one time, and as a result, my progress through any one particular game is pretty damned slow. That's not to mention the other 5-10 games that are languishing on the 'pile'. It regularly takes me months to finish a game. The gamefly model of "get one game, play it until you're done, then return for another" just doesn't suit my play-style.

Your whole rigamarole with Gamefly has been the final nail in the coffin.

I've never lived in a country that provided a service like gamefly but it seems to me many of you guys are spending more on the rental scheme than it would cost to go out and buy the old games they eventually send you.

My dear man, Elysium... Besides your lovely warning, which means that you have saved me from ever trying the service, you gave props to Play-N-Trade. A very good friend of mine, Jeph Pearson, is the local manager of our Play-N-Trade, and because of that store, I realized that buying games through meatspace brick-and-mortar doesn't have to be hell.

In all fairness, I have made friends with one GameStop employee.

Out of their giant rotating roster that goes around month by month.

Out the veritable hundreds of employees that have gone through that GameStop in my time.

And yet - the men who run Play-N-Trade are men who I know well, who let me play any game I want in the store, who sympathize with my broken arm. These men know me on sight. And in return, I have completely and voluntarily given them my complete and total loyalty. I greet newcomers. When someone is having trouble and the store is too busy for everyone to be given attention, I feel it is my duty to my friends - my friends, not my torturers - to step in and help that customer. And an hour later, when the rush dies down, I get an approving nod from Jeph and control of the giant screen that plays trailers to the whole store for about fifteen minutes. When it's time for me to go at the end of the day, I buy a Game Boy Color for fifteen dollars or an original Game Boy for ten. I might choose to browse the incredible roster of retro games, or sell a stack of games that I bought on hype for almost the full market price. And when my gloriously easy transaction is complete, he drops a piece of candy and a Play-N-Trade sticker into the bag - like he has all day.

The first day that I stopped in to see what that place was and bought my Game Boy Color, that was what really hit me. His personal policy was to give everyone a bag of Skittles, or M&Ms, or what-have-you. He decided that it was his personal duty to make sure that every gamer who bought from him felt special enough to get a sweet.

And that's why I wear my fedora with a Play-N-Trade sticker on the inside.

In conclusion to my excessive ramble, Elysium, thanks. It's really nice to see someone I respect as much as you support Play-N-Trade.

And to the rest of ye Gamers With Jobs - look up Play-N-Trade's website and their policies. From my experience, if you have access to one near you, you'll never travel through the nine rings of GameStop again.

interstate78 wrote:

Also commonly referred to as ''looking out the window''

We learn something new every day.

In my experience it's only called leaf peeping by people who have to travel a ways to do so. For them it's more involved than just looking out the window too. It typically involved driving ten miles under the speed limit and frequently stopping in the middle of the road to take pictures, much to the displeasure of the locals who are used to seeing pretty colors on trees and just want to get where they're going. Said locals really wish the leaf peepers would return to where they came from, because they don't know how to drive.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
lorenzolio wrote:

PS. Kidding aside, I actually I like gameaccess.ca. The few times I've had to talk to them they were stellar at customer service. But the same problems of too many people wanting the few new games, and slow shipping times, are still there.

I have to agree. They've had a lot of growing pains to be sure but they are a much smaller company than GameFly (when I first joined, it was like 3 people.) They've had some issues but they continue to improve their site and their processes and every time they've screwed up, they've offered me credit without me having to raise a real fuss. However, if you want new stuff, make sure you sign up for the reserve feature.

I'm glad you guys brought this up. I was meaning to ask if anyone had actually used gameaccess. Any anecdotal evidence that might sway me one way or the other re: subscription?

I already have a 3-disc out account with zip.ca (the Canadian equivalent of Netflix) and so far it's worked quite nicely in replacing cable TV for us. If I don't end up watching something within a week, I realize I'll probably never get to it and just send it on back anyway. I don't really operate that way with my games though... I have titles sitting around that I haven't even tried yet, but I know one day I'll just look at the pile and think "Okay Condemned: Criminal Origins... today's the day." Like others in this thread have mentioned, it seems that a gamefly or gameaccess type thing would serve to 'push' you into playing whatever's on your doorstep. Not really my gaming style.

Another problem is that I'm a rabid completionist. I just put Burnout Paradise in my Goozex Offer queue, but realized that I'm inches away from completing the billboards, smashes, etc. Even now I'm fighting the urge to delete the offer, reasoning that maybe one day (one day!) I'll go back and finish the last few events for my Elite license. In reality, I probably won't, but losing the opportunity is the real issue. Seems a gameaccess account might just serve to compound this neurosis; sending titles back week after week, never to be seen again.

Clemenstation wrote:

I'm glad you guys brought this up. I was meaning to ask if anyone had actually used gameaccess. Any anecdotal evidence that might sway me one way or the other re: subscription?

My experience with them has been largely positive. I signed up back in 2006 originally, left because they were doing what GameFly is to Elysium, tried someone else who was even worse, then I went back to GA after they implemented the reserve and fast return features. These two things do cost extra per month but they are 100% worth it. Fast return works like ZipRefill (I use Zip too, they're based in Ottawa) where you can signal one game as on its way back and they'll send you the next one before the original arrives. Reserve lets you pick one game and when the next copy becomes available, it is held for you and sent out as the first title when you have a free slot. They just implemented a feature which allows you to see the queue lengths for each individual title in your list so you can choose one with a short waiting list. I also pre-pay for a six month term which gives me 20% off the normal rate and since I've been with them for more than six months, I get free shipping on anything I buy from their online store and an additional 20% off all used games. In terms of how many new games I get, well I currently have Red Faction Guerrilla, Ghostbusters and Prototype and my previous two games were inFAMOUS and X-Men Origins. I'm also first in line for Overlord II.

All that praise said, until this reserve update was done, I was having a lot of issues with games sitting in reserve for weeks sometimes. However, when I complained they were usually quick to deal with it and almost always offered me some credit (anywhere from a few days to a week or more) to make up for it. The company is bigger than it was but it is still fairly small, though they really do seem to be trying hard to impress. In terms of shipping times, they ship from Laval, Quebec (outside Montreal) so times aren't too bad for me though people in western Canada have reported longer waits. Unfortunately, Canada Post treats everyone who isn't Amazon like second-class citizens so things tend to arrive when they arrive. I've received games the day after they were shipped and sometimes as much as five or six days later. This is just the way things work unfortunately but I can live with it.

My suggestion is to give their trial a shot (unfortunately, due to shipping times you may not get much time to really try things out) or sign up for a single month and see what you think. Personally, Stylez and I have both been pretty happy. We both have memberships and I'll definitely be keeping mine when I move next month. Given my startup income situation, there's no way I could keep playing so many games without a service like this.

Imagine if STEAM could rent games?? Now THAT would be the awesome sauce!

If I walked into their establishment wanting to buy Prototype, but was instead handed a copy of Ratchet and Clank Go To Federal Prison for my trouble, that would be more like renting from GameFly.

I've forgotten: Which one of those is also called inFamous?

Clemenstation wrote:

I'm glad you guys brought this up. I was meaning to ask if anyone had actually used gameaccess. Any anecdotal evidence that might sway me one way or the other re: subscription?

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

I also pre-pay for a six month term which gives me 20% off the normal rate and since I've been with them for more than six months,

I second almost all of what Parallax said. I've been with GA since 2006.
The 20% off for paying six months at a time (as opposed to monthly) is flippin genius. It easily makes them cheaper than the competition.
Biggest downside is, like he said, I'm in western Canada and the turnaround time is slow. This is true even when paying extra for the Fast Return feature. I guess if you're in ON you won't have the same problem.

Clemenstation wrote:

Another problem is that I'm a rabid completionist

But a game completionist? Yikes, I hesitate to suggest anybody like that sign up for game rental service. I'm almost the opposite -- I troll many games by renting and playing only the first couple of hours of them, and when I find one I like (rare) only then do I buy it. I think I have six titles in my ownership collection, total, across three game systems. And one of them is Rock Band so come on, that doesn't count.

I sent a complaint email to Gamefly and got this BS response:

Thank you for contacting GameFly.

Our apologies. We have reviewed your account and noted that you currently have only very high demand items in your GameQ. Due to the low availability of these games, we are unable to ship another game to you immediately. Therefore, we do recommend that you place more released games in your GameQ so you do not miss out on receiving titles.

We ship games based on the length of time that you have been waiting for a game (once a return is received in our facility) and the time the desired available game was placed in your GameQ. We pay close attention to our inventory levels and re-order key titles regularly but our inventory status is also dependent on the number of games returned by other members.

We understand that our members want both their first choice and rapid shipping. While we try to meet these expectations every time, exceptions occur where the top ranked item is not available and we realize that it can be frustrating.

We appreciate your feedback and apologize for any inconvenience. If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.

The first bolded point supports the notion that we're told not to order popular games. What's the point of having a rental service if you can't get new titles? The second bolded point implies that not getting new games shipped quickly is a rarity when in reality it's the norm. I really don't want to cancel but they leave be no choice.

Yup, that looks familiar.

I didn't read all those words but I think if you keep about 10 titles in your queue including things like Yaris and Cabela's Alaskan Adventures you might have more luck. You just didn't follow the rules.

[color=white]See that cheek? There's a tongue in it. I did read all the words, they're beautiful, Elysium-crafted words with weight and power. I've quit GF twice now for the same reason. I ain't an umpire, they don't get a third strike.[/color]
ColdForged wrote:

I didn't read all those words but I think if you keep about 10 titles in your queue including things like Yaris and Cabela's Alaskan Adventures you might have more luck. You just didn't follow the rules.

[color=white]See that cheek? There's a tongue in it. I did read all the words, they're beautiful, Elysium-crafted words with weight and power. I've quit GF twice now for the same reason. I ain't an umpire, they don't get a third strike.[/color]

I have Cabela's Outdoor Adventure 2010 in my GameQ.

Maybe they need a "Back In Stock" tab along with the usual Most Popular and New Releases lists.

EDIT: Huh, they kind of already have that.

NSMike wrote:

Their "minimum queue" racket is nothing more than a scheme to keep you getting games and try to make you feel like you're getting your money's worth out of the service.

How dare they?

Jayhawker wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Their "minimum queue" racket is nothing more than a scheme to keep you getting games and try to make you feel like you're getting your money's worth out of the service.

How dare they?

Obviously it's not going to make a difference to someone cognizant of the fact that they're not getting the games they really want. And withholding shipment because you don't maintain a queue full of games 6+ months old is shady at best.

NSMike wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Their "minimum queue" racket is nothing more than a scheme to keep you getting games and try to make you feel like you're getting your money's worth out of the service.

How dare they?

Obviously it's not going to make a difference to someone cognizant of the fact that they're not getting the games they really want. And withholding shipment because you don't maintain a queue full of games 6+ months old is shady at best.

I understand that the service fails to meet the needs of a lot of people. I don't use the service because i find it cheaper to buy the games I want than to continually rent games AND buy the games I want. I play too many sports games, and it just doesn't work for me.

But I don't get this notion that they are tricking people into thinking they are getting their money's worth. You either feel its a god deal or you don't.

I don't think Gamefly's process is that out there. The big hit games that people are complaining about don't maintain their popularity long enough to warrant Gamefly purchasing more copies. They will soon be stuck with way too many discs. I think it would be neat to have three new releases out at a time, but there is no way that I would think that it is reasonable that they can pull that off. That makes it a terrible system for Elysium. And it is worth having threads like this to sort out the pros and cons of the service.

So who exactly wants to use a game rental system whose main purpose is to deliver you older games that are not in demand anymore? It seems to me that if they can't manage to get enough copies of the new releases to make people happy they have relatively little reason to exist. But, that argument is kind of academic for me personally since I don't rent games anyway.

But I don't get this notion that they are tricking people into thinking they are getting their money's worth.

That's... That's the basis of sales, right there. Well, make people think they need something that they don't, anyway. After all, you never have to sell someone something they actually need.

I suppose if your wants are being met paying for Gamefly and getting a bunch of old games, then by all means, keep paying for it. It's just not the service they advertise.

NSMike wrote:
But I don't get this notion that they are tricking people into thinking they are getting their money's worth.

That's... That's the basis of sales, right there. Well, make people think they need something that they don't, anyway. After all, you never have to sell someone something they actually need.

I suppose if your wants are being met paying for Gamefly and getting a bunch of old games, then by all means, keep paying for it. It's just not the service they advertise.

But it is the nature of that kind of service. Netflix works because there is a backlog of great movies that supplaments their new releases. DVDs also cost less, so they can buy in a bigger bulk.

I agree with your basic premise that Gamefly is a bad value. But when they have "6000 GAMES" plastered on the front page, what the heck did you think they were trying to sell? It's a service that lets you keep a nice library of games, plus some new titles. I think much of the grief that Gamefly is taking is due to the the expectations that users projected onto Gamefly.

Again, I don't use Gamefly. I had it for two months years ago, and that was enough to realize that videogames don't work the same way as movies. The turn around is just not fast enough for 90% of their audience. But at no point did I ever feel ripped off. that distribution model just doesn't work. And expecting Gamefly to acquire enough discs to satisfy the kind of demand that is being lamented here is foolish.

I think much of the grief that Gamefly is taking is due to the the expectations that Gamefly created.

Fixed.

With love.

Jayhawker wrote:

And expecting Gamefly to acquire enough discs to satisfy the kind of demand that is being lamented here is foolish.

I don't have the answer but if they are interested in making (more) money they should figure out how to make it work. Are you suggesting that it is impossible to make their service better? If there are enough unhappy customers they are opening the door for another company to do it better, or they are going to be a shinning example of why this doesn't work.

Elysium wrote:
I think much of the grief that Gamefly is taking is due to the the expectations that Gamefly created.

Fixed.

With love.

This is what I saw when looking at Gamefly:

6000 Games
Free Shipping
No late fees
Cancel anytime

I don't see where they are inferring that you get all new releases whenever you want, hon.

Jayhawker wrote:

I don't see where they are inferring that you get all new releases whenever you want, hon.

Directly underneath that is the following:

1. Pick your games online
2. We rush them to you (Emphasis added, but 100% accurate quote)
3. Play games as long as you want
4. Return games and get more from your list

Below that they display a selection of games released within the last month.

If this doesn't create the expectation that you'll get the games you want regardless of release date, I don't know what does. Gamefly is doing plenty to create the expectation that you'll get the latest games without saying it outright. Get into the semantics of the language all you want, unless you're Jayhawker, Super Consumer® you're signing up on that site with that expectation.

NSMike wrote:

If this doesn't create the expectation that you'll get the games you want regardless of release date, I don't know what does. Gamefly is doing plenty to create the expectation that you'll get the latest games without saying it outright. Get into the semantics of the language all you want, unless you're Jayhawker, Super Consumer® you're signing up on that site with that expectation.

For one thing, people do get new games. Get them all the time. I read about their impressions here and on other forums. It's a service that some people actually like, and they feel like they are getting a good value (but that is just a dirty trick, right?).

Second, it has been explained that for the system to really work, you need at least 10 games on your queue. If you can't find 10 games that interest you, then Gamefly is a really, really bad value. You don't need to be a Super Consumer® to figure that out.

Here's the clincher though.

Cancel anytime

They could not make it any easier for you correct a mistaken impression you might have. If you can't get the games yuo want, cancel. But that doesn't make Gamefly bad. It makes them a bad match.

Again, talking about how the service works and why it doesn't fit your needs is important and a great topic. Demonizing a company because they don't fit your needs is really just lame. I'd call it juvenile, but it is much more similar to old ladies with nothing better to do than complain.

Cancel anytime

That sure would mean a lot more if I weren't ceremoniously out for the money I spent.

Demonizing a company because they don't fit your needs is really just lame. I'd call it juvenile, but it is much more similar to old ladies with nothing better to do than complain.

Your high horse is awfully pretty. Is it a pure bred?

I think Netflix has been mentioned about 60 times in this thread, but nobody has mentioned one important thing about their service. If they can't send you the first movie on your queue, they will send you the second one for free. Or more precisely, they send #2, and then #1 when it's available, w/o waiting for you to return the #2 first. When they get both back, they move on to your next movie. My one-movie-at-a-time plan has often rewarded me with two movies to enjoy when my first choice was not available.

Could you imagine GameFly ever sending you a free rental when your first choice was too popular?

On the other hand, $25/month for unlimited, bookended rentals is still a good deal to me-- so while I may be screwed in terms of their promises, I can't complain overall.

EDIT: Oh, and to throw some positive energy into this thread, I might as well share my secret, which is this link:

http://www.gamefly.com/RentalMediaTitleSearch/Browse/?cat=ComingSoon&page=1&sort=Popularity&isListView=False&pageSize=75

That will show you the most popular upcoming games, which you can add to your queue to jump the crowd. The Gamefly equivalent of showing up to Disneyworld at 7am.

Good points on Netflix, Schmutzli. Imagine if Gamefly offered the same type of streaming game rental service that Netflix? Simply register, log on to your 360 (or PS3?) and access the rentals directly on the console. I'm not sure how the logistics would work in terms of inventory but I'm sure something could easily be worked out.

As for your coming soon suggestion, I've been doing that since I first started Gamefly way back and it generally works out well for getting titles. It's essentially "reserving" a game well in advance of the launch and in theory, I should be one of the first to get it when it releases. Right now, I have 50 games in my GameQ and 48 are coming soon from August 09' through Spring 2010. It's also a good way to keep track of release dates so sometimes I'll put games on there that I indend to buy just to track the date.