Horizons Broadening Project 2009 - April

After a less than satisfactory experience with The Witcher, a game that continues to flummox me with the disparity between how much I though I would like it and how much I didn’t, I am moving forward with my Horizon’s Broadening Project undeterred. And, I am truly facing the core of my prejudices for April.

For some months now I’ve been thoroughly insufferable if you happen to be a fan of handheld Nintendo gaming. For numerous, largely faulty, reasons I have labored under the illusion that the Nintendo DS was a once bright and shining promise now tarnished by industries dedicated to selling games about Horsez and the Jonas Brotherz. So rampant is their misuse of the 26th letter of the alphabet, that I have been blinded to what I am assured are some excellent releases.

So, this month I take on the DS for my Horizons Broadening Project, and tackle two birds with one stone and dive head first into the cloying world of JRPGs. This month’s Horizons Broadening Project: The World Ends With You.

I’ll be honest. I expect to hate it.

Now, hold your ire until the end, because that may just be a good thing.

Looking back on my experiences so far it’s important to note that both the games I played took on aspects that were the opposites of my initial expectations. I was terrified that Birth of America II was going to be an incomprehensible amalgamation of chits and fuzzy math. It actually turned out to be a quite playable experience that engaged me far more than I might have expected.

By contrast, my fully documented disappointment with The Witcher may have originated in some part from my complete misunderstand of the structure and mechanics of the game. I never quite understood how the foundation of what I suppose would have been a worthwhile payoff was built on the back of endless trekking back and forth across a city I cared nothing about and occasionally fighting monsters with a painfully thin combat system.

Judging by how things have, so far, turned out exactly the opposite from my expectations, it’s possible that I may be singing the praises of The World Ends With You within the span of a month. But, I don’t expect to be, after all that would break the fragile system.

I had a lot of good choices for my DS pick, and I suppose the fact that I struggled over the decision of what to play must be mentioned because it runs against my now well trodden criticism of the system’s library. Among the games I seriously considered, GTA: Chinatown Wars, Hotel Dusk, Dragon Quest V, Henry Hatsworth and some form of Pokemon which I have never played. Ultimately, the overwhelming enthusiasm for TWEWY finally swayed me.

Now, before you ask, this does not necessarily preclude my playing any other JRPG during this grand experiment. However, while I will go into this with my narrow mind opened as wide as I can wedge it, the fact is that there are a lot of staples to the genre which just rub me the wrong way. I wonder quite sincerely whether I’ll be able to elevate my play above my bias.

Comments

I'm the same way. I really don't enjoy JRPGs in general because there are certain genre conventions that I just can't stand. The random battles, the incessant spreadsheet statistics (handled here with the pin system), the generally generic and boring plots and characters. However, I heard this game was different, so I gave it a try. I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised. Sure, there are still a few annoying genre conventions there, but overall I found the game did enough differently to be a nice breath of fresh air in the genre and actually hold my attention until the end. That's saying something, considering how jaded I am when it comes to JRPGs.

Oh, and looking at your other DS potentials, I have to strongly recommend both Hotel Dusk and Henry Hatsworth. The former is an excellent adventure game with a well written story and solid, engaging characters, and the latter is a quirky action-platformer/puzzle hybrid with a presentation that is absolutely hilarious.

I've resisted teh JRPG genre for some time, dipping my toes in only occasionally for the giant "mandatory" titles and the overlaps of things like Jeanne D'Arc. I'd trade for something if anyone's sitting on a copy.

I think a Pokemon is still in your future though.

Go forth and discover! I've not got a DS, and am not a fan of JRPGs... but I heard such good things about this game I almost tipped and purchased both.

Almost.

Hope you're proved wrong, just to cheer you from your obvious funk after your last failed experiment.

I'd definitely recommend Hotel Dusk for a future project.

I look forward to your response to the game. Good luck.

I think you'll hate it, too, but it might get a pass if you realize that anything that annoys you is probably optional. On Easy mode you can beat the game with a few basic skills. If the dual screen combat is overwhelming, you can turn on the partner AI and mostly ignore the entire top screen. You only need to do the fashion and food quests a couple of times. And most importantly, you can turn off the sound when the music starts to eat your soul.

You also don't have to dress up as one of the characters, but it'd make a nice photo for your article. Broaden your fashion horizons, too.

I think I'll be joining you in trying to tackle this game over the next 30 days...Henry Hatsworth has worn out his welcome in my house

I should mention I don't have a white-hot hate for JRPGs, though.

I played TWEWY for about a day before I sent it back. I couldn't get past the bad anime tropes enough to get into the battle system.

There are plenty of good JRPGs for the DS that don't leave you wanting to punch emo otakus. Might I suggest Dragon Quest 6?

I know the love for TWEWY is strong here, and I will be curious to read Elysium's take on it, but I just can't see myself getting over the game's setting. I am not intrinsically opposed to Jrpgs but the last one I played was FFVII. If one were to buy a DS Jrpg other than TWEWY what should it be?

Nyles wrote:

I think you'll hate it, too, but it might get a pass if you realize that anything that annoys you is probably optional.

Yeah, this is one of the great things about the game: you have a lot of control over what you do and don't delve into, so it is easy to avoid what annoys you and focus on whatever you like. Swapping out "pins" to suit the types of attacks you like to use makes the combat really customizable too.

As I said in the other thread, I thought TWEWY barely counts as an "RPG"; the similarities to most genre conventions are superficial and shallow. Since I play a lot of RPGs, that might be like a wine connoisseur prattling on about the difference between two different years for a certain vintage, when I can barely tell a shiraz from a merlot... still, I think you'll be delighted that you don't really have to worry much about stats, random battles, level grinding, managing equipment, and (after the first few hours of play time) excessive emo whining.

Have fun!

Captain_Arrrg wrote:

I played TWEWY for about a day before I sent it back. I couldn't get past the bad anime tropes enough to get into the battle system.

There are plenty of good JRPGs for the DS that don't leave you wanting to punch emo otakus. Might I suggest Dragon Quest 6?

That's too bad... the tone of the story (and main character) significantly change not too far into the game. You are meant to dislike him at first.

Badferret wrote:

If one were to buy a DS Jrpg other than TWEWY what should it be?

Probably Chrono Trigger, which most people still consider a masterpiece after 15 years.

How I've managed to maintain my complete disinterest in JRPGs over the years constantly surprises me. Every time I hear a JRPG is "good", I have the following converstation

Me: So this game is fun?
Them: Yeah, it was alot of fun when (describes playing the game)
Me: (wonders if they have possibly suffered damage to the part of the brain that describes "fun")

I wish you luck, hopefully you can find some small slivers of enjoyment in there somewhere.

The combat sheds almost all semblance of traditional JRPG conventions in this game, except the screen shatter. The combat is fully real time, no menus and you can always avoid attacks if you are prepared for them. Plus there's no random encounters. You only enter combat when you initiate it.

beeporama wrote:
Captain_Arrrg wrote:

I played TWEWY for about a day before I sent it back. I couldn't get past the bad anime tropes enough to get into the battle system.

There are plenty of good JRPGs for the DS that don't leave you wanting to punch emo otakus. Might I suggest Dragon Quest 6?

That's too bad... the tone of the story (and main character) significantly change not too far into the game. You are meant to dislike him at first.

I keep hearing that allot, but it wasn't just the main character, it was everything but the mechanics. Were this my first exposure to fashion-conscious-Japanese-juvenile-urbanites, coming-of-age or getting "sucked" into a mysterious "game" stories, it might be different.

I've been down those roads, didn't like it then, don't know why I'd like it now.

Captain_Arrrg wrote:
beeporama wrote:
Captain_Arrrg wrote:

I played TWEWY for about a day before I sent it back. I couldn't get past the bad anime tropes enough to get into the battle system.

There are plenty of good JRPGs for the DS that don't leave you wanting to punch emo otakus. Might I suggest Dragon Quest 6?

That's too bad... the tone of the story (and main character) significantly change not too far into the game. You are meant to dislike him at first.

I keep hearing that alot, but it wan't just the main character, it was everything but the mechanics. Were this my first exposure to fashion-concious-Japnese-juvinial-urbanites or getting "sucked" into a mystiorous "game", it might be different. I've been down that road, didn't like it then, don't know why I'd like it now.

There are legitimate reasons you'd dislike this game. The art direction (including the "fashion"-consciousness) is subjective, although to the game's credit, the value of fashion is discussed in context of the story's themes. You might hate playing a juvenile character, and there's no helping that. You might hate the affectation of a "game" run by supernatural entities, and there's no helping that.

The game is very conscious of its use of cliches, sometimes mocking them, sometimes integrating them smartly into the gameplay and story themes; but it can be difficult to get past the aesthetic at first, and it is just never going to "click" with everyone. I don't think it's universally enjoyable or that you should play it if you didn't enjoy it, but I do think the use of JRPG cliches is much smarter and self-aware (dare I say "meta," considering the self-parodying bonus chapter?) compared to other games that use them as a crutch in lieu of innovation or engaging storytelling.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

The combat sheds almost all semblance of traditional JRPG conventions in this game, except the screen shatter. The combat is fully real time, no menus and you can always avoid attacks if you are prepared for them. Plus there's no random encounters. You only enter combat when you initiate it.

The combat will probably confuse the crap out of you at first, Elysium. Our brains aren't really use to fighting two battles at once with two completely different control schemes. The trick, I found, was to just mash right on the d-pad and concentrate on the bottom screen. Once you find a set of pins that you like on the bottom screen, you can take the time to sort out the top screen.

That'll make more sense once you play.

Anyway, I'm glad you went with this because I think it has a high payoff once you get past the jrpg cliches. High risk, high reward.

beeporama wrote:
Badferret wrote:

If one were to buy a DS Jrpg other than TWEWY what should it be?

Probably Chrono Trigger, which most people still consider a masterpiece after 15 years.

I'd never played Chrono Trigger until now (I used to hate JRPGs, too) and I heartily concur. I'm still in the middle of it but it's consistently surprising and delightful. It doesn't feel like a 15 year old game. It plays like a nostalgic but innovative tribute to old JRPGs.

Yeah the difficulty settings are your friend. There's also a slider where one end gives you more XP for beating a fight but shrinks your health bar, and the other side boosts your health bar but reduces the amount of XP you get.

I fell in love with the pins - not collecting each one, but making different sets (you get up to 4 sets) and picking the right one for each fight. As mrtomaytohead said above, the fights are really not like the JRPG fights of yore that have you picking a command from a menu. They are realtime and play more like a brawler I suppose. Except that you have a skillbar of powers (pins) that you've assembled that have different cast times, recharge times, etc... It's similar to a MMORPG with customizable skill bars (it reminds be a bit of Guild Wars that way).

The first part might drag, so my advice would be to keep the difficulty low so you can breeze through. You can get through quickly, and I don't think there's anything like Vizima to stop you in your tracks. Battles are not random, but if you want to fight in random battles it's always an option.

The story is pretty good but takes some time to develop. If you don't end up liking the combat system and pins, I don't think the story is enough to keep you entertained the whole time. The story is like a pretty good sauce - if you don't like the food it's on, you're not going to keep eating and rave about the sauce.

I became crazy addicted to this game and still need to go back and finish it. The story definitely starts off with a stupid emo self centered protagonist, but this really doesn't last long, and the story is surprisingly engaging. I usually take pride in being able to see where a story is going, yet this story constantly has me guessing. The only downside to this game for me is the required use of the mingle system to get 100% completion in this game. There's a lot of optional depth to this game that I really appreciate. I still suck at the top screen after probably 70+ hours of game play(All optional grinding before you nay say the game), and I still just spam left or right on the d-pad and hope to get lucky, it's pretty effective. Also something as simple as being able to level up pins by not playing the game is pretty genius in itself. This game does a lot of stuff right, and I hope you enjoy it.

Funny, I just picked this up today for my brand new DS as well. I've always enjoyed JRPGs, especially the weirder more experimental ones, but never mustered the time to finish one. Maybe this will turn that trend around.

So, this month I take on the DS for my Horizons Broadening Project, and tackle two birds with one stone and dive head first into the cloying world of JRPGs. This month’s Horizons Broadening Project: The World Ends With You.

Whoa.

TWEWY has a battle system that finally utilizes the touch screen in an awesome way. I wouldn't worry about trying to control the character on the top screen. That was the only part of the game that annoyed me but you can put that character on automatic. What I would do is memorize one of the partner's simple attack patterns (usually something like up, up, down) and input that pattern with the D-pad without looking at the top screen.

Good luck.

My DS and The World Ends With You have been languishing on my shelf, I've got way too many platforms with too many games to be able to play them. I got a little ways into it but it wasn't really grabbing me, I need to go back and play some more and maybe stick it on easy and let the AI deal with the top screen and see how that fares..

The last couple of months have been brutal for new releases, I've just been getting raped on my PC and 360, not to mention all the DS titles I'm sure I've missed.

i don't think of TWENWY as a JRPG. I guess it's kind of a jrpg hybrid in that it shares some characteristics with those games, but diverges in the combat. If it is a JRPG, then its the most evolutionary jrpg that I've played in a long time.

I played TWEWY with an open mind and the hope that something so innovative, as stated on many gaming sites, could launch the JRPG genre forward into the 21st century. I am a fan of games like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest which typify the standard of jrpgs that consistantly focus on swords and magic. I hoped that it could present a truly different approach to these types of games, but in the end all it did was present frustrating combat with a poorly created "matrixy" story line. The dialogue is a bit annoying as it tries too hard to represent teenage speech and while the graphics are pretty, they seemed to not take advantage of the 3D capabilities of the system (maybe thats intentional). Overall, I made it through a third of the game and had to leave from sheer aggravation. This is not meant to sound overly pessimistic and I hope you enjoy your adventure into this game, but I wanted to share a true experience that goes beyond hope and focuses on reality.

IUMogg wrote:

i don't think of TWENWY as a JRPG. I guess it's kind of a jrpg hybrid in that it shares some characteristics with those games, but diverges in the combat. If it is a JRPG, then its the most evolutionary jrpg that I've played in a long time.

There are a lot of really experimental or evolutionary JRPGs, they just don't tend to be huge international hits like the Final Fantasy clones do. You should play the Persona games, or look up old games like Lunatic Dawn or Zill O'll - they aren't as out there in terms of combat as TWEWY, but they try some really cool RPG ideas in terms of your actions and their effects on the world. Which is still not to say that I've ever finished one. Someday, when time is infinite, I'll get back to those.

I came to the site just to yell at you for being a douche about the DS game lineup, so I was glad to see this on the front page, but TWEWY?! You couldn't dip your toes in with a little Henry Hatsworth or Rhythm Heaven first?

I don't know if you've ever played any of the Fire Emblem games before, but I'd highly recommend Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon on DS. Great portable strategy, where the focus is getting through each mission with everyone alive. Love it.

I'd give a Phoenix Wright/Apollo Justice game a go, a Pokemon for sure, Jeanne d'Arc, and Zelda Phantom Hourglass.

Wow - talk about diving into the deep end of the pool. I've played a lot of JRPGs, and while TWEWY does have an interesting combat system, it is otherwise full of the staples that appear to cause Internet rage against JRPGs. Big hair, kids acting far too mature (or emo) for their age, sexual ambiguity, bizarre philosophical mumbo jumbo that never really does make any sense, grind on top of more grind, poppy fluff music, etc. Mind you, none of that stuff bothers me, but if that stuff bothers you, I can't imagine TWEWY being a pleasant experience.

Aphallatosis, OCEdwards: you might have missed this, but a lot of those games were suggested. They might be better games, but as far as horizons-broadening goes, I think this is even further outside Elysium's comfort zone.

While I'm mentioning it, this is a good time to congratulate him on the concept. Sure I'm a TWEWY cheerleader, but would I play a Birth Of America game? Would I ever try to get over my dislike of twitch shooters and sports games to play Halo, or Madden, even though they are widely loved; much less something really out there? It's impressive.

Yeah, I'll second beeporama on this: I'm rather impressed. I kind of liked TWEWY (I found it kind of refreshing and interesting, but it just never really grabbed me), but the fact that Elysium is tackling such an odd game, and one that embodies so many things that he doesn't particularly enjoy or have a lot of experience with is very commendable. Good luck!

Pokemon, Ely. Pokemon.

Giving the DS a serious whirl without trying a genuine main-franchise Pokemon game is like... like never trying a Mario platformer on a Nintendo console, or never trying out a Gran Turismo title on a Playstation console. There are just some hallmark, quality titles each console is known for, and whether you end up hating them or not, simply come with the territory.

To try the most refined of the current offerings, my recommendation goes to Pokemon Platinum. Just saying.