Going through "separation" with wife.

Roo, the first thing I would recomend is counseling.

someone can reevaluate their life and goals and still remain in a marriage. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

People cant just shuck their responsibilities because they are having a breakdown or depressed or a mid life crisis. She married you and you both need to work out a solution. Unfortunately, I wish I had advice on how to get that across to her without making the problem worse.

Can she take like a week's vacation?

My other advice would be to tell HER (instead of us) how much this is crippling you and that she is your best friend. How she reacts to that should tell you all you need to know.

Because right now you need to know whether she has already made up her mind and she is just having difficulty crafting her words right. (whether for ill intent or not) Believe it or not, it is possible that the words she is choosing is trying to lure you into doing something irrational and thereby throwing away all your stake. You might want to say something like,"It sounds to me as if you have already made up your mind" to see if she forces her hand.

And then there is the possiblity that she is doing the above subconsciously. Which if you let her know that you are aware of it if she is doing it, should get her to realise what she is doing and hopefully stop being destructive and start being constructive about your future.

Saying to yourself,"She would never do that to me." might be the worst advice you could ever give yourself. If she has changed then her ability to "do that to you" has changed as well.

It is going to be a fine balancing act for you. However, I can say that the odds dont look good. This is the kind of thing that could be prevented or ressurected had it been caught earlier. However, if one or both sides waits till its at this stage to say anything about it, the future doesnt look so bright.

I guess what Im trying to say is that if one person decides that their needs are greater than the needs of the marraige, is aware of this and decides that it is ok, even if the marraige stays together it wont be a marraige. It will be a dependant relationship.

I feel the key to a successful marraige is requiring a certain set of stubbornness in placing the marraige needs above the self.

BTW, let go of the denial.

It isnt a "seperation". It is a seperation if it is allowed to happen. I think something like 70% of marraiges do not survive "seperations" or seperations.

I can't say that she has the right to ask you to leave. This is her deal, she's the one who needs space, she should get the sublet. And, as pointed out above, if you do leave, and you guys do end up apart, leaving the house really undermines your legal rights.

I'm pulling for you, Roo, however the situation turns out.

I'm really sorry to hear this, Roo. I've been down the seperation and divorce road and it's incredibly difficult. It's incredibly painful, and if you let it, it'll eat you up.

I agree with hoochie above. If she wants to seperate, then she can find a sublet and move herself. You should not have to turn your life and comfort upside down any more than needed because she wants "space".

Is she open to marriage counseling, or even individual counseling? Are you? Do you want to save your marriage?

I hate to say it bud, but like I mentioned before - you have to now be in the mind set to protect "you" over the long term. Dont burn any bridges, but right now there isnt a team - so dont take one for it.

Roo, keep your chin up, bro.

Anytime, anyplace you want to hit some GW or CSS - I'm here.

I added you on XFire tonight.

Roo,

You're in a crap situation, and I hope it gets better for you soon. Hang tight; time has a way of fixing things.

For what its worth, I can tell you from personal experience that things can get REALLY REALLY bad, and then work out.

I hope that in the end you find yourself in a better place, with or without her. And that the guys on the boards can help you take your mind off things.

(secretively hands Roo free SwampAir 1st class ticket)

Look me up June 22nd!

Sorry to hear that Roo. Hang in there and good luck.

I am so privelged and blessed to have you all in my life. I really needed this more than I even thought.

I'm actually handling the parts of dealing with her very well, and doing much of the good things suggested. I don't let myself become abusive or just react. I've told her every honest thing from my heart that I could. Part of her depression problem, a major, major part is that she will not seek outside help. I think the only slightly snarky thing I've said is, "And look how well that's working out for you." She's going to her parents for a week, after which she's willing to live in the sublet. Honestly, I could care less about the money and house part of it. We have lots of money saved, neither of us spends much or is that interested in money in and of itself.

I think she's kept herself so bottled up over the years (even before being with me), not expressing past pain and troubles even to me, and all of it is just there, eating her up. Which I told her pretty thoroughly for an hour, including that by definition she can't help herself out of this, there is nobody strong enought to do that. She has a family history of depression and her mom is on meds. I'm very much hoping she will take her mom's advice (her mom is very cool) when she's out there, and see a psychologist, get on meds, and consider marriage counseling.

But yeah, there's not much I can do except stand up for my feelings. You know, I've already been through the bad relationships where I did the stupid stuff i could possibly do now, which is why I'm not doing those things. I can't control what she does or how she feels, but I'm not changing who I am or what I expect and need from a relationship and a partner.

Heck yeah I have some of the responsibility of all this, not having been giving in the way she's needed for the past 2 years probably. Not that I would have known precisely what she needed. So I've had 2 reasons for getting my s*** together, one to wake up and stop being in survival mode, and the other to take care of things around here so she can take care of what she needs to. Which almost upsets her more half the time, but that's not my problem. Not anymore.

It's always in my head now. I look at our media collection and think, "well the xbox and games are mine, she can have buffy and angel, I will take firefly. i can always buy buffy dvds again. Xmen 1&2...." I don't know that I could adequately describe how it is playing with the dogs and taking one of them for 1-3 hour walks. Now I have to pick one of them to go with me? My wife already knows which I would pick, you can see her in my avatar and my name (avatar created and red eyes added by the awesome richyrambo).

I have cut myself off from my friends around here, who have known me for...14-16 years because it's just too damned hard to face them just asking, "How's you wife doing?" I'm going to have to face that, too, now. Cause god it's helped to hear everything from you guys. It means alot to me, from the blanket support no matter what I do, to the heartfelt, sometimes difficult advice.

And I have to tell you, JMJ, I wished you lived near me. I have some very close friends and the ones who know me best will be that honest and say what needs to be said. I've been keeping all of this in for actually 2 weeks now. I've played my computer games, I've drank my wine cooler manly girlie drinks, I haven't shaved, I've barely showered (though I did get a hair cut...one thing good i suppose).

But I want to be a choir teacher more than anything in the world. More than any relationship I may have, more than...you know, anything. I'm going to be the one many students tell, as a senior, "I wouldn't have made it through high school without you Mr. R." (I had many students in my student teaching calling me Mr. R, since my real surname starts with R.)

Since this is my big share thread, let me share with you a couple of my few happy thoughts. They're from the poster board thing the kids made me:

"Mr. R, you seriously rock! You are an amazing teacher and musician. You're such a nice person. The people you teach in the future will learn so much! Best of luck. I will always remember you. Come back soon. p.s. The musical is going to be great! :

"You are by far the coolest, most fun student teacher. Thank you for always talking with me, for being able to relate, and for making me laugh so hard. You're going to be a great teacher; your passion will carry you far. Thanks for being my friend."

Roo. You are strong.

Sorry to hear it Roo. I'm pulling for you and hope everything works out in the end. Let it be known that the Narsil pelvis will always be there to thrust to and fro for you in Guild Wars.

Just wanted to pile on with my best wishes. Some good advice above from the fine folks at GWJ. Hang in there Roo.

Best of luck, Roo.

Roo, things will get better for you, one way or the other. You are right to concentrate on your teaching.

A little late, but just adding my support. No matter how bad things seem now, just remember "this too shall pass". Either you both will work it out and find a way to be happy together or you'll move on and find happiness (eventually) with someone else. I've been through a divorce and it sounds like it was very similar to your situation. My ex changed. Her direction in life and goals changed midstream and without warning - well just like with your wife she thought about it long before revealing it to me, so for her it wasn't so sudden, but for me it was.

In retrospect, after a hard breakup and adjustment period and after meeting my current wife, it was all for the better. I don't know if it's because we got married at a young age and during a time when changes are still in motion (still in college and not starting career etc.), but I'm so much happier now - with my new wife.

Anyways, I don't really have much advice or wisdom other than I've been there before. Keep your chin up and don't let this get you down - too far. Remember my mantra "this too shall pass."

I have cut myself off from my friends around here, who have known me for...14-16 years because it's just too damned hard to face them just asking, "How's you wife doing?" I'm going to have to face that, too, now. Cause god it's helped to hear everything from you guys. It means alot to me, from the blanket support no matter what I do, to the heartfelt, sometimes difficult advice.

Despite the fact that sometimes its easier to ask for, give and receive advice, anonymously... do NOT isolate yourself. You might be surprised at what your friends would have to say. 14-16 year friends, you'd think they would know a thing or 2 about ya *wink*

Depression is very difficult to deal with. My grandfather passed away a year ago. He had been clinically depressed for like 40 years. Most of that time he was on prescribed lithium, which of course damaged his liver. But despite all that, he was a very lucky with is health. He lived to be in his mid 80's and he was able to drive, work and walk up until his back gave out in the last year.

Depression with him was very hard because the person tends to dwell on the negative and repeat themselves over and over. Its a very emotionally draining experience. And the icing on the cake is when you leave, they mention that they really benefited alot from your visit and need you to come back more often. The manipulation caused by the disease is heart wrenching and vindictive and you often wonder why they are doing this to you. My parents and uncles told me its the sickness and allthough it adds some comfort, it doesnt lessen the wondering why.

My best advice if she does seek counseling and perhaps medication, it is up to you to stay on top of it. Ask questions and do research. Its something that your wife wont be able to do adequately, her doctor doesnt have time to do and the medical care burreaucracy will only compound the problem. Internet, internet, internet and ask for explanations of every action. Research the medications to find out the side effects. Compare them with your wifes medical history.

You have to get involved. Otherwise it is inevitable that she will slip through the cracks with errant paperwork or over zealous medicators. After few mishaps or oversights, she could be hospitalized. The medical system is just like any burreaucracy, once it starts working against you, it takes a lot of effort from a lot of people to break free.

Roo,
you sound like you've still got your wits about you and are handling this better than 90% of the people out there would. Weird to say but, it feels good to see someone sticking up for thier feelings like you are. Kinda like seeing a good guy in a movie doing the admirable and self reliant thing.

Best of luck.

The advice here has been sound. The only thing that can be added that I can see is only you can decide what to do with all the heartfelt information that people have put out.

I too went through a separation with my now ex-wife and it can be a very trying time, the only thing I can add is to keep strong and hopefully everything will work out for you and yours.

Wow, this place is TEEMING with divorced people!!

I'm so impressed by the advice given here, and the well wishes. This is such a warm place at times. Roo, I've been moved by your expression of love for your new career, and perhaps that's something she's feeling too. I don't know, but take away the depression element and it seems likely that she wants to be as fulfilled as you seem to be and that is what she's searching for. It sure doesn't seem like she would have to put her marriage on the line to do that. But, add the depression back in and this may be a sign that she doesn't feel "up to" the task of being part of something so wonderful. Or maybe she's a bit jealous of your happiness, this is only a guess, for how could I or anyone else know what's going on in her mind. I too wonder why she doesn't want to be the wife of a choir teacher, or for that matter the wife of a man involved in any particular (legal) profession. I would have to agree with those that suggest that she seeks professional help, her Mom may be in the best position to see this through. I really hope the trip to Mom's helps her sort this out.

I wish you the best, and I wish for her that she finds some help with learning how to deal with her depression and possible feelings of inadequacy (if that's the case).

p.s. does she have any idea how hard it is to find a good man? Send her my way and I'll lecture her on the subject.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Wow, this place is TEEMING with divorced people!!

"50% of all marriages..."

Add me to the statistic! I went through a divorce in my early twenties and it was the most devastating thing I've ever gone through - it ripped me apart. Time heals like you wouldn't believe, and instead of regretting the past I've realized that I never would have found the awesome woman I'm with today.

After a period of chaos comes regrowth, and even though you might think you are isolated and hurting alone, 50% of the population is in grief with you.

Chaos leads to destruction. Destruction causes you to escape your shell and comfort zone, re-evaluate life and determine what is important. Then it is time to rebuild and learn from your mistakes.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Wow, this place is TEEMING with divorced people!!

We are Gamers With Jobs not Gamers With Perfect Relationships. Isn't that right Demos?

KrazyTaco[FO wrote:

]We are Gamers With Jobs not Gamers With Perfect Relationships. Isn't that right Demos? ;)

Man, I've read all the threads, but why must Demos be the poster child of failed relationships here at GWJ? Poor guy!

(although, sympathy aside, it is really funny!)

Swat wrote:

After a period of chaos comes regrowth, and even though you might think you are isolated and hurting alone, 50% of the population is in grief with you.

Chaos leads to destruction. Destruction causes you to escape your shell and comfort zone, re-evaluate life and determine what is important. Then it is time to rebuild and learn from your mistakes.

Chaos leads to destruction. Destruction leads to discomfort. Discomfort leads to learning.

Mind what you have learned. Save you it can.

Grumpicus, think the exact same, I did.

On a connection, we must be.

Roo, dude, this whole thing sucks. Listen to the wisdom of Spy and Mojo. Hell, we should just compile a GWJ How To for marriage, seperation, divorce, child rearing and wrap the whole thing up with cooking reciepes.

Now, not trying to be cheesy or nothing, but my wife and I will be praying for you.

Good luck, and if you can work your way out to the OC, then CC and I will drag you down to The Library. They'll cheer you up.

We are Gamers With Jobs not Gamers With Perfect Relationships. Isn't that right Demos?

*falls over laughing* Oh man, I'm laughing so hard, my headache officially crossed into migraine... but I'm still laughing.

why must Demos be the poster child of failed relationships here at GWJ? Poor guy!

I think mostly because I've put myself out there, and it became quite clear that I just sucked in that relationship (something the ex can't claim :D) and the aftermath (which I'm still having to deal with on occasion, had to pass up a job recently because I didn't want to work with her best friend as my boss after she spread all the rumors that I was a bad boyfriend to her friends instead of telling them the truth).

Eh, whatever... I'm learning. I'm young, I'm allowed to be stupid. It's the law... unless the law pertains to alcohol or pot... in which case, I'd be going down (yet again, something my ex can't claim, thanks folks, I'll be here all week)!

Well I did some more positive stuff...actually showered, shaved. Ate health food. Called my best friend in town, went over for dinner, talked about all this stuff, and then played Starcraft on his basement LAN while sipping a half glass of single malt scotch.

That's like progress...and in many ways it was, just to get completely out of the house for the evening. I took care of some errand stuff, some housework stuff. I didn't mope or escape all day. Not bad. And since this crap started I've lost 12 lbs, by eating better and exercising more.

And from time to time I glance at this thread, and feel better. It's like all of you are here with me in a way that is both humbling and kind of funny (since you all are kinda funny, make me laugh, cheer me up, all that good stuff).

And about SillyRabbit's p.s., my wife said something (early on) about how this is extra hard cause i'm such a good guy. Which didn't make me feel better. But further that I wouldn't have any problems finding someone. To which I responded, that basically no, it wouldn't be hard for me to find *someone* (and I didn't mention that I do fall in love easily), but I had already found my best friend to marry, and how exactly am I supposed to find a new best friend who is all of the other things to me as well. That will be hard, and I don't know if it will be possible.

I think she's been having conversations with me in her head, with my answers and reactions all worked out. I don't think my actual ones have matched up at all with what she expected. As if I would say, "yep, you're definitely not worth all this, and I'm such a cool guy, lemme give up on you and find someone else, and move far away, taking only a few things with me that you don't care about." Quick, painless, and all that working on yourself and our relationship could just fall by the wayside.

That's just not me. And she really is my best friend. And in the midst of all this crap, I'm going to try my best not to give up on myself first and foremost, and then see what happens.

I do feel better. I give you folks alot of credit, thanks, and fond, friendship type feelings. And hey, a little left-over lust if you want, since I've got...lots of that stored up at the moment.