[Discussion] Mass Shootings - Yeah, we need a thread just for this...

This year is the deadliest year ever in terms of mass shootings. In a political climate of polarization, it becomes harder to suss out legitimate information from the misinformation propagated by those with political agendas. Complicating this more is the continual resistance of 2nd amendment advocates to allow for political talk surrounding these massacres. This will involve political discussion to see if there are ways we can all agree might be good ways to prevent mass shootings.

This discussion should involve the details of any current, or future mass shooting, and how they compare to past mass shootings. How are they the same? How are they different? Do gun laws have an impact? Does the race of the shooter affect how we treat them? What makes one a hate crime and one an act or terrorism? Are these shootings the price of freedom?


Like, I'll keep on voting and pushing for us to do the most basic, obvious stuff, but... yeah.

Yeah, but I still hold out hope, however unreasonable it may be, that if we could get enough of the right people in the right positions, we could make some changes that would actually help. Because most of America has emphatically not decided that killing children was bearable, but our political system is not designed to actually listen to what most people want when change doesn't suit those who profit off it.

Stengah wrote:

Yeah, but I still hold out hope, however unreasonable it may be, that if we could get enough of the right people in the right positions, we could make some changes that would actually help. Because most of America has emphatically not decided that killing children was bearable, but our political system is not designed to actually listen to what most people want when change doesn't suit those who profit off it.

First you'd have to change the system so it doesn't work like that. But to do that you'd have to change the people who profit from the system. But to do that you'd have to change the system..
QED - we're boned.

Even mentally ill mass shooters think the current ease of access to firearms is ridiculous.

The man who fatally shot five co-workers at a Louisville bank in April wrote in his journal that he wasn’t sure if his mental health struggles would preclude him from purchasing a gun. Later, after acquiring a gun just days before carrying out the mass shooting, he remarked that buying it was “so easy” , calling the transaction “ridiculous”.

The journal writings by Connor Sturgeon were contained in a 64-page report released on Tuesday by Louisville police, in which authorities say they have now closed the investigation into the actions of the 25-year-old who also died that day after being shot by police .

Sturgeon wrote that it “was so easy” to purchase the assault rifle, a Radical Firearms RF-15, from a Louisville gun store, according to the police file. He bought the rifle, 120 rounds of ammunition and four magazine cartridges for $700 six days before the shooting, and the process took about 45 minutes, he said.

“Seriously, I knew it would be doable but this is ridiculous,” he wrote.

So even though his brain wasn't working correctly, it still worked better than the people that think the existing laws are enough to prevent this from happening.

The Texas Tribune has done a piece on the police response to Uvalde. It's as bad you think.

Saw this and thought "I wonder if the death count will be high enough to make this thread"? I think the fact that I thought that shows the state of gun violence in the US

Oh no, 100% same. I put it in here, but as I did my genuine first thought was "I wonder if the body count will be big enough for anyone to pay attention this time?"

Moreover, my floor is like, 7-9, which is insane. I feel reasonably justified as thinking a mass shooting that kills 6 people is "not hugely newsworthy," and that is patently deranged.

CNN says at least 3 dead. Which, again, means this will barely be news by tomorrow morning.

Not a mass shooting, but...

End 'culture of hatred', says mother of boy shot in US

A Scottish mother whose son was shot dead in the US has called for an end to the country's "culture of hatred".

Detectives in Utah believe Rory Swimm was killed by a 15-year-old schoolboy who had been given a handgun by his grandfather as a gift.

His Glasgow-born mother Susan and his American father Robb want his death to lead to change.

Susan said his loss had devastated friends around the world.

Speaking from the family home in Colorado, Susan said: "It's a tsunami of destruction that has spread to Scotland, to Switzerland, to Utah, to Seattle, to Washington, to Montana.

"There's a lack of culpability in America. It's totally fine that you can go out and shoot somebody because it happens all the time here."

She says education needs to begin with young teenagers "to be kind, to have empathy for other people".

Susan added: "I've had to tell myself hundreds of times a day that Rory's been murdered, that Rory's not going to come home, that my wee boy is dead because somebody shot him.

"I don't believe for a single minute that we can change any of the gun laws in America, but I feel that today within the teenage youth there's a terrible culture of hatred, instead of kindness."

Rory, a dual UK/US citizen born in Dundee, died in Salt Lake City in Utah a week after his 23rd birthday.

His parents' grief has been compounded by anger after they discovered more about the 15-year-old accused of his murder.

At a memorial service attended by hundreds of people, Susan Swimm's American husband Robb asked mourners to cry out a single word: "Why?"

They want something positive to come out of his death, no matter how impossible that might seem in a country so divided over gun control and gun rights.

Robb told BBC Scotland News: "It may not be the biggest story or the worst or the most tragic, but it's only because a gun was involved that there was a murder."

The incident began with an early morning argument between Rory and his friends and three teenagers outside a 7-Eleven convenience store.

According to court papers detailing the investigation by the Salt Lake City Police Department, the two groups hadn't even reached the stage of exchanging blows when a single shot was fired, hitting Rory in the chest.

His friends Jimmy Ledford and Will Griffith later showed Rory's parents where he died.

Jimmy told them: "When the paramedics were trying to figure out what was wrong with him, they lifted up his shirt and that's when we saw the bullet hole in his chest."

Detectives say they found a spent 9mm shell casing 100ft (30m) away.

They used video footage to trace the 15-year-old at his home and discovered a 9mm handgun in a safe in his bedroom.

The police report said the 15-year-old's grandfather told them he had given the teenager the weapon as a present and took him shooting almost weekly.

The suspect is said to have told his friends that he had "shot into the air" instead of aiming.

Under Utah law, he can't be named because of his age.

Rory's parents moved from Scotland to the States when he was six weeks old.

He grew up to be a passionate skier and skateboarder. His family said they would always remember his wild stunts and acrobatics, and ear-to-ear grin.

Every year Rory returned to visit relatives in Scotland. His older brother lives in Glasgow.

At the time of his death, Rory was the 14th killing in Salt Lake City in 2023.

Utah has one of the lowest homicide rates in the United States but it's still twice that of the UK's.

"There's a gun culture in Utah specifically that we're looking to expose," said Robb.

"The biggest tragedy is this was so preventable in so many ways."

He talks of a boycott of America over its gun laws, like the boycott of South Africa over apartheid.

"I don't want my son to just be a statistic, I want him to be remembered in a way that's positive," he said.

"The repercussions of this little act of a finger pulling a trigger ripples in so many directions."

In a pathetic, sick way, I want to tell them that America doesn't care, and we're not going to do anything, because we value the gun that killed their child far, far more than we value human life.

Under Utah law, he can't be named because of his age.

Second Amendment vs. First Amendment: fight!

Too young to vote, drink alcohol, rent a car or hotel room, or join the military, but old enough to own a handgun.

Just another of the many, many ways our nation is so f*cked up.

Gunman at Prague university who killed 15 was student - police

- More than 15 people were killed and 24 injured in the shooting at Charles University in central Prague, police say

- The gunman was a student at the university's faculty of arts. He began shooting on the fourth floor and his body was later found by police

- Up to 200 students were moved to safety across the road from the faculty, and footage gathered by a passer-by showed a crowd fleeing through the streets of central Prague

- Police said the gunman was a 24-year-old from a village 21km (13m) outside Prague, and the suspect's father was found dead earlier today

- Police say it's thought the shooter was inspired by similar massacres that have taken place abroad
It's the worst fatal shooting since Czech independence 30 years ago

- Czech President Petr Pavel said he was "shocked by the events" and expressed his "sincere condolences"

Iowa has joined the club of school mass shootings

Multiple people shot at Perry High School in Iowa, sheriff says

Police say 17-year-old killed a sixth grader and wounded five in Iowa school shooting


EDIT: I was on Twitter for work today, and saw that DJT Jr. had tweeted something about "Trans terrorism" and was REALLY confused until I figured out that they must think the shooter was trans.

EDIT v2: Ah, they're insinuating it was a false-flag attack. The usual dishonesty, but also I appreciate all of these morons basically implicating that they're not capable of holding two events in their head at the same time.

Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley, the Michigan school shooter’s mother, guilty of manslaughter

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — A Michigan jury convicted a school shooter’s mother of involuntary manslaughter Tuesday in the killings of four students in 2021, making her the first parent in the U.S. to be held responsible for a child carrying out a mass school attack.

Prosecutors say Jennifer Crumbley had a duty under state law to prevent her son, who was 15 at the time, from harming others. She was accused of failing to secure a gun and ammunition at home and failing to get help to support Ethan Crumbley’s mental health.

The four guilty verdicts — one for each student slain at Oxford High School — were returned after roughly 11 hours of deliberations.

Jennifer Crumbley, 45, looked down and shook her head slightly as each juror was polled after the verdicts were read.

Honestly, I think I disagree, to an extent, with the prosecutors reasoning there, although to be fair, the Crumbleys did a truly impressively sh*t job of parenting.

Nov. 27, 2021: Jennifer Crumbley and Ethan take turns shooting the gun at a range. She writes on social media that it is a “mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present.”

Nov. 29, 2021: A teacher sees Ethan, a sophomore at Oxford High, searching online for ammunition with his cellphone during class and reports it. Ethan tells school staff that he and his mother recently went to a shooting range and that shooting sports are a family hobby. School personnel call his mother to notify her but says he’s not in trouble. While exchanging text messages with her son, she writes: “Lol. I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.” That night, Ethan Crumbley records a video declaring his plan to kill students.

Nov. 30, 2021: Ethan Crumbley opens fire at Oxford High School, killing four students. Seven others, including a teacher, are wounded. His parents had met with school officials earlier in the day because violent drawings were found on a math paper, but he was not removed from school. Ethan’s backpack was also not searched. A gun in the backpack was used in the attack. The shooter surrenders without a fight.

Dec. 1, 2021: Ethan is charged as an adult with murder and terrorism.

Dec. 3, 2021: James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with involuntary manslaughter. Authorities cannot find them, and a search is launched.

Dec. 4, 2021: A judge imposes a combined $1 million bond for the parents, hours after police say they were caught hiding in a Detroit art studio with new phones and more than $6,000 in cash. They plead not guilty to the charges.

The running away part is where I go "Yeah, jail for you now." Don't care how scared you are, how overwhelming this is, you run from this, you go to jail.

Man, making not getting mental health care for your kids illegal is another f*cking tax on the poor. Who is going to pay for that?

They had money for a gun and ammo...

JLS wrote:

They had money for a gun and ammo...

I meant more of a general policy statement. Not this specific case.

I know it's not ideal for those who can't afford care. Calling the police on your own kid in a poor neighborhood invites a new level of risk I'm sure many parents would avoid. But securing dangerous weapons from a troubled child is a reasonable ask, and holding parents accountable who neglect that responsibility also seems reasonable.

I have multiple friends and colleagues there. So far everyone i know fine - no one has any details.

1 dead, 9 injured.

Sigh. Just sigh.

Placing $20 on "assholes with guns got into a fight, decided to solve it with gunfire in a crowded area" as the reasoning.

I am broadly, like, pro trying to lean into rehabilitative justice et al, but on incidents like this I find myself fairly "bury the perpetrators under the prison in solitary." Which is why I shouldn't be allowed to write policy.

I hate to say it, but I’ve really started limiting my interactions with big gatherings unless there is tight security. (I know there is no truly “safe” event but parade crowds are just too easy to bomb/shoot up/drive a giant truck through.)

At least four students shot at Benjamin E Mays High School in Atlanta, GA

I had to resist the urge to post a video of Lee Greenwood's "Proud to be an American" in response.

And it's the 6th anniversary of Parkland.

48th mass shooting of the year and we're only 45 days into the year...

Time to repost the onion article?

Related to this and an earlier conversation about bad jurisprudence.
Hawaii State Supreme Court loudly tells SCOTUS to pound sand on 2nd Amendment, that their DC vs. Heller ruling was not just wrongly decided, but also that originalism is stupid and they should be ashamed for peddling it. Somewhat paraphrased, but not much.

Time-traveling to 1791 or 1868 to collar how a state regulates lethal weapons — per the Constitution’s democratic design — is a dangerous way to look at the federal constitution. […]

“We believe it is a misplaced view to think that today’s public safety laws must look like laws passed long ago. Smoothbore, muzzle-loaded, and powder-and-ramrod muskets were not exactly useful to colonial era mass murderers. And life is a bit different now, in a nation with a lot more people, stretching to islands in the Pacific Ocean

It's so good. SCOTUS will obviously overturn this decision, but this is still a great way to put them on notice and a blueprint for other courts to tell SCOTUS to get f*cked. I don't normally read full decisions, but this one is a banger.