A place to post and discuss news related to the recent events in Israel, including the Hamas/Islamic Jihad incursion and repercussions.
I suspect it's a relatively minor consideration. Once Hamas and IJ had stockpiled all those rockets and drones and trained their people, they would have really needed to use it all before Israel found some of it and started destroying it. So it's probably a case of "Well, if we have to choose between this week or next, a holiday might give a bit of advantage".
But of course we have no way of knowing.
Everyone In Gaza Is A Human Animal.
Everyone In Gaza Is A Human Animal.
Shadows a ghetto in Poland.
Everyone In Gaza Is A Human Animal.
You want more Hamas recruits? This is how you get more of them. And the cycle continues...
Emulating Anakin Skywalker is not how you prove you are the good guys, Israel.
Emulating Anakin Skywalker is not how you prove you are the good guys, Israel.
I don't think they much care about the "good guys" thing anymore. They are just confident that they are the only game in town.
Farscry wrote:Emulating Anakin Skywalker is not how you prove you are the good guys, Israel.
I don't think they much care about the "good guys" thing anymore. They are just confident that they are the only game in town.
I think they care more about not having their citizens beaten, raped, and dragged through the streets naked.
I could post videos if you need me to, but I'd rather not seek those out. It's sad that you'd need a reminder about what event they're responding to so soon. This kind of apologetics is what helped to support Hamas in thinking they would benefit from this attack. Make no mistake you are helping and supporting Hamas with this line of thought, whataboutism, and both sideism. Good thing we chased off the one Israeli that would post here years ago, I hope he and his family is okay.
Are you talking about the "unlawful killings, willful injury, arbitrary arrests, torture and other ill-treatment, persecution and collective punishment against Palestinians, including many children," committed by Israel authorities that Amnesty International condemned last year?
Is that what "they" care less about? Which "they" did you mean? The ones that committed atrocities today, yesterday, they day before...etc., etc."
Huh. Didn't realize that every single one of the 2 million residents of the Gaza Strip need to be starved out because they're all just human animals responsible for any and all crimes or atrocities committed against Israelis. Thank you for correcting me on that, Wizkid.
It looks like Netanyahu is giving an address requesting an "emergency unity government". I suspect Jar Jar Binks will speak next.
I have also seen articles suggesting Egypt told Israel about a Hamas buildup but were ignored. put that together with a leader who has a fair amount of legal issues now requesting emergency power...
Queue conspiracy theories that he allowed this to happen to take control.
I have also seen articles suggesting Egypt told Israel about a Hamas buildup but were ignored. put that together with a leader who has a fair amount of legal issues now requesting emergency power...
Queue conspiracy theories that he allowed this to happen to take control.
Yeah. Everything about this smells like fish.
Not a lot of anti-Netanyahu protests going on anymore, eh?
Not a lot of anti-Netanyahu protests going on anymore, eh?
Form an orderly queue behind all the other shit I don't have time to protest about.
farley3k wrote:I have also seen articles suggesting Egypt told Israel about a Hamas buildup but were ignored. put that together with a leader who has a fair amount of legal issues now requesting emergency power...
Queue conspiracy theories that he allowed this to happen to take control.
Yeah. Everything about this smells like fish.
The sheer extent of Israel's ostensible failures of intelligence and security are staggering. Like, yes, Hanlon's Razor, but good Lord.
Hamas is open to discussions over a possible truce with Israel, having “achieved its targets”, a senior Hamas official has said.
Moussa Abu Marzouk, speaking in a phone interview with Al Jazeera, was asked whether the group is willing to discuss a possible ceasefire.
He replied that Hamas was open to “something of that sort” and to “all political dialogues”.
He added Hamas had captured “tens” of dual citizens from Israel, including those with Russian and Chinese citizenship.
Hamas is open to discussions over a possible truce with Israel, having “achieved its targets”, a senior Hamas official has said.
Moussa Abu Marzouk, speaking in a phone interview with Al Jazeera, was asked whether the group is willing to discuss a possible ceasefire.
He replied that Hamas was open to “something of that sort” and to “all political dialogues”.
He added Hamas had captured “tens” of dual citizens from Israel, including those with Russian and Chinese citizenship.
Yeah. I get the impression that Putin wanted some sort of incident, but this went a bit further than his intentions. He benefits from fairly close relations with Netanyahu and Israel has surprisingly neutral to the Ukraine conflict. I wonder if Zelenskyy's immediate condemnation of the attacks and pledge of support coupled with Putin's position that "both sides" should agree to a ceasefire will force Israeli popular opinion in a different direction. Hard to tell. A huge number of Israelis hold dual Russian citizenship.
If one really wanted to go down the conspiracy hole, one could wonder about the timing of a certain useful idiot, ousting the Speaker of the House just prior to a major global event.
In reality, who knows how much Vlad's dark money played a role in any of this, if at all, but the continued existence of that money will continue to have a destabilizing force on the world for the foreseeable future.
Very long but Vexler pretty much mirrors my thinking on the events.
It's well known the Israeli intelligence service is one of the most resourced and capable. I do find it a bit hard to believe they didn't see the makings of a large operation right when their corrupt and despotic leader needed to distract the population from the destruction of their political and judicial system.
I feel sorry for the Palestinians who wish to have nothing to do with Hamas. This will inflict collective punishment at a greater severity than ever before for the average Palestinian.
To condemn Hamas for the current massacres does not relieve the injustices inflicted by Israel on their Palestinian brothers and sisters. I can't help but think a more humanitarian solution and approach might have avoided the present conflict but then again there's a lot of instability in the Middle East funded by proxy combatants.
Sure, there are plenty of innocent Israelites in this too. Spilling blood only serves to immortalise the conflict.
Just so I'm clear on the point you're trying to make.
So you're saying that the Jews had it coming due to their own actions, and it's their own fault Israeli (and other nationalities) citizens were murdered, raped, and dragged naked through the streets to the cheering of the Palestinians.
How much blame do you place on Israel for the recent vile attacks? 10%, 30%, 50%, 60%, 80%, 100%?
I don't support Hamas, I just parrot their talking points, play right along with their playbook, and point out how evil both sides are.
Just so I'm clear on the point you're trying to make.
So you're saying that the Palestinians had it coming due to their own actions, and it's their own fault when Israel levels residential buildings, drops white phosphorous in populated areas, and starves the entire population to the cheering of the Israelis.
How much blame do you place on Palestine for the IDF's war crimes? 10%, 30%, 50%, 60%, 80%, 100%?
Just so I'm clear on the point you're trying to make.
So you're saying that the Jews had it coming due to their own actions, and it's their own fault Israeli (and other nationalities) citizens were murdered, raped, and dragged naked through the streets to the cheering of the Palestinians.
How much blame do you place on Israel for the recent vile attacks? 10%, 30%, 50%, 60%, 80%, 100%?
I would say 50/50 if you need a number. It takes a few seconds to google and find atrocities committed by Israelis before this uprising. So how do you reconcile that?
Somehow no crime committed by Israel counts? Or each new crime is it's own "event" and no previous events should be considered?
I think it should be clear that it is possible to condemn Hamas (I do), acknowledge Israel's right to exist (I do), and still recognize that Netanyahu's antidemocratic experiment in ethnonationalism played an enormous part in making this outcome an inevitability (I do).
And it is both distressing and predictable that the same, tired, "support the troops" nonsense folks used to shout down opposition to Bush's invasion of Iraq after 9-11 is now being retread and recycled to silence folks who criticize a criminal fascist like Netanyahu.
Edit: and before anyone does the lazy bullshit of conflating them, no, the Israeli people did not deserve this. Just as the Palestinian people don't deserve the Siege of Gaza. Israelis don't deserve to pay for the sins of Netanyahu.
WizKid wrote:Just so I'm clear on the point you're trying to make.
So you're saying that the Jews had it coming due to their own actions, and it's their own fault Israeli (and other nationalities) citizens were murdered, raped, and dragged naked through the streets to the cheering of the Palestinians.
How much blame do you place on Israel for the recent vile attacks? 10%, 30%, 50%, 60%, 80%, 100%?I would say 50/50 if you need a number. It takes a few seconds to google and find atrocities committed by Israelis before this uprising. So how do you reconcile that?
Somehow no crime committed by Israel counts? Or each new crime is it's own "event" and no previous events should be considered?
WizKid, I'm not the most read up on the history of conflict but perhaps you could read this article by Al-Jazeera (their reporting is quite good overall) that's quite a concise history of the turbulent history that region of the world has had, not just in the past century but the past millennia.
When you look at what colonial Britain did to the Palestinians in order to give a kingdom to Israel, and how Israel went so far beyond what colonial Europe had in mind that the UN backtracked on supporting Israel... you'll see the current conflict is far more nuanced than the face value take of Hamas terrorists killing and kidnapping hundreds of innocent (and perhaps not so innocent) Israeli forces and civilians.
You're talking about a fairly recent mass dispossession of land, certainly in living memory, of people of a particular ethnicity and religion, being replaced by people of a different minority ethnicity and religion. You've got the Israeli forces dehumanising Palestinians for close to a century, now using similar language Nazi Germany used against their people also within living memory.
After decades of wrongful intervention in the Middle East, particularly Iraq and Afghanistan, the US and its allies (sadly, that includes Australia) finally figured out that occupation of hostile territory and inflicting war crimes on the locals serves to drive poverty stricken young boys into a pathway of terror because that's all they know and that's all the hope they have. You think Israel's brutality will do any different? 15 years from now, you'll have a new generation of Palestinian child soldiers and terrorists who will be raised in the context of a brutal genocidal campaign of terror against their people in 2023/2024. Moreover, the expected expansion of illegal settlements and suppression of working rights and resources into Palestine will mean many more boys will not have an economically viable future.
Even if Israel slaughters a huge number of Palestinians in the coming months, do you think the millions who are presently or are due to be shortly displaced will not harbour blood grievances for decades to come? It will not end well until the idiotic leaders on both sides are deposed and some form of reconciliation is reached to give fair opportunities to both Israeli and Palestinian peoples.
There is no "right" side in this conflict and its broader context. Israel-Palestine is the Middle Eastern version of the problem in Africa where colonial Europe superimposed arbitrary borders across the African continent and to this day there is constant conflict in Africa for similar reasons.
It is interesting that you bring up colonialism. Public intellectuals like Vlad Vexler (British Israeli) have noted that the policies of Netanyahu have reduced Gaza and the West Bank to contiguous colonies where Apartheid is the governing philosophy. In that sense, this latest violence bears striking resemblance to the Indian Revolt of 1857. His rather public abandonment of the Two State Solution and a de facto commitment to a future of colonialism made this outcome inevitable.
As it turns out, folks don't like being colonial subjects.
Who knew?
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