The GWJ JRPG Club: Final Fantasy IX (Q2 2023)

LastSurprise wrote:

One key reason I got the Switch version! It’s nice to not even have the temptation.

Took one look at the PS4 trophy list and noped out I'm still stumbling along, mostly sticking to the main story objectives. I was on my way to Cleyra when I quit last night, if that means anything to anyone.

Enemies seemed to get quite a bit stronger after Lindblum, still manageable but I'm having to burn through a lot of items. I poked around a bit in the open world, found an extra party member and some chocobos, but I still feel like I'm a bit underlevelled. I was hoping to avoid having to grind or use the "booster" modes, but it's not looking good. Still enjoying the main story though and the variety of locations and scenarios so far.

I just got out of Dali and into Lindblum.

The story hook with Vivi and the black mages and the whole mystery there is more interesting than anything else the game has served up so far, but a somber existential identity crisis kinda clashes with the more lighthearted swashbuckling adventure serial time the game otherwise wants to strike.

Also, God, Zidane's "women are slot machines that I put nice things into until kisses fall out" schtick continues to be just the worst.

hbi2k wrote:

Also, God, Zidane's "women are slot machines that I put nice things into until kisses fall out" schtick continues to be just the worst.

Yup. Babelicious is a word I never needed to hear again either. And Steiner calling Zidane a "monkey" doesn't go down so well these days. At least the women and children have been pretty likeable so far

ComfortZone wrote:

And Steiner calling Zidane a "monkey" doesn't go down so well these days.

That seems to be a bit of a thing in Japanese media, and seems to carry a very specific connotation. I most often see it directed at a young and mischievous male protagonist or supporting character, as a way of calling them inconsequential, immature, and/or annoying. Importantly, it seems to carry no racial connotation in this context whatsoever.

A coworker of color was called a monkey with (hopefully) that intent but it wasn't received well and hopefully more people are educating themselves these days.

hbi2k wrote:
ComfortZone wrote:

And Steiner calling Zidane a "monkey" doesn't go down so well these days.

That seems to be a bit of a thing in Japanese media, and seems to carry a very specific connotation. I most often see it directed at a young and mischievous male protagonist or supporting character, as a way of calling them inconsequential, immature, and/or annoying. Importantly, it seems to carry no racial connotation in this context whatsoever.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

A coworker of color was called a monkey with (hopefully) that intent but it wasn't received well and hopefully more people are educating themselves these days.

It does seem like monkeys carry certain meanings in Japanese; although I don't know the language enough to consider the original, I'm sure it wasn't intended to have racial connotations.

On the other hand, anybody who remembers Barret Wallace knows they probably haven't used sensitivity readers on their English language translations. Calling someone (especially of color) a monkey is far more offensive for us than them, I think, and hopefully they'd make changes if they were translating today.

Of course, the philosophy of translation (literal meanings in the most culture-faithful text possible, versus adjusting to a target culture) is a complex issue, but I hope in this case that sensitivity would win out.

beeporama wrote:

Calling someone (especially of color) a monkey is far more offensive for us than them, I think, and hopefully they'd make changes if they were translating today.

That's the thing, I've seen the "calling an annoying, mischievous young man a monkey" thing in multiple Japanese works over the years, and I've NEVER seen it directed against a person of color. That's what makes me think it just plain doesn't have the same racial connotation.

Zidane literally has a monkey tail, and he is not dark-skinned or coded as black in any other way that I can see. I don't see it as a problem.

I absolutely took it to be a reference to his tail and not a racial slur. But even so it's pretty insulting and the word has connotations these days that I wasn't aware of at the time. My point was it sticks out in 2023 in a way I don't think it would have at release.

Anyway, back to the game, I played a bit more last night, to the end of the Cleyra episode. Quina was MVP in the last couple of fights, strange to think I could have missed him/her/them (?) completely.I like zipping between locations but it would be good to have the full party together soon.

I just went through the Evil Forest section and a first glimpse of the Overworld. Presumably we won't be there for long. I've been playing it at 1.25x but it does speed up the music as well so I might pull back to 1x even if that's also a little annoying at times. Had a few Moogle tutorials about how abilities work which reminds me of another game but can't think of it at the moment.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Had a few Moogle tutorials about how abilities work which reminds me of another game but can't think of it at the moment.

I think Lost Odyssey has a similar system when it comes to learning skills, but it's been a while, so I could be wrong there.

As for me: I think I played 15 minutes yesterday, not much to report yet.

I'm about 30-45 minutes in, right now, and my initial take: look great, sounds great, and I'm now having flashbacks to how awkward it felt to actually move the characters within the city environments in the original FF7. It's not great when I'm trying to get my bearings and accidentally have Vivi walk out of the shop I just entered, triggering another brief loading screen. I also compeltely agree with hbi2k's take that it doesn't yet feel like I'm actually playing the game.

hbi2k wrote:

With games in general, but story-heavy games like JRPGs in particular, something I've always got in the back of my mind is, "how long until it feels like I'm actually playing the game?" Obviously that's a rather fuzzy and subjective metric, but some games do it better than others.

FF7 is kind of the gold standard. Short, but very pretty and evocative cut scene, and then, BOOM! You're in a dungeon. Blow up this power plant, worry about the details later!

I do... not get that feeling from FF9. I just hit the two-hour mark and I'm just now, entering the Ice Cave, feeling like I'm actually playing the game instead of pressing A to advance to the next cut scene. And every time I do feel like I'm playing for a second, the game will interrupt me again. It makes for kind of a jarring, staccato pace to these first few hours. I may have to quit pressing the Select button to view these optional little "Active Time Event" cut scenes. So far none of them have felt worth the interruption.

Looking at a missables walkthrough, it seems like there are a ton, and also there are a lot of cards that are available in the first town which I totally failed to find. And you can play cards with everyone. I don't really want to be a completionist or to play with a walkthrough open, but I may go back through the intro area just so that I can have enough of a deck to fool around with.

I will not be earning anything through the jump-rope minigame. What a terribly frustrating exercise that would be. Tried it a handful of times, and my results were either to fail immediately after 1 jump, or to make it to 5 jumps then fail.

LastSurprise wrote:

I will not be earning anything through the jump-rope minigame. What a terribly frustrating exercise that would be. Tried it a handful of times, and my results were either to fail immediately after 1 jump, or to make it to 5 jumps then fail.

I got 25 jumps (after many tries) and I felt like I won a gold medal in the Olympics. I laughed when I saw how many were required for the trophy.

I tried the jump rope a handful of times and could not even get past one, so I just threw in the towel.

Only made it to the Evil Forest so far, so not very far in. But wow, was there a lot to see in do in Alexandria as Vivi. I do not remember that area being so packed.

Is it just me, or do Princess Garnet and Queen Branhe not even look like the same species? Garnet is clearly human but Branhe looks like some kind of frog person.

Alexandria story thoughts:

Spoiler:

the escape cutscene really makes me wonder what the castle is made out of. This ship that looks like it is made of wood, and has to somehow fly through the air, rotates and completely demolishes a stone looking tower. I would assume just based on material strengths that the front of the ship would have snapped and splintered rather than completely demolish the tower. Also, there were like six grapples with massive chains attached to the ship, how did those all break? They were broken before the queen launched the bomb at the ship, so it was not that. Also, if she needs Garnet alive, why did she launch a bomb at the ship? Wouldn't that have potentially killed her with her kidnappers? So many weird little things in this one sequence.

I dug out my strategy guide for this game from back in 2000. I am sure many of you have heard of it, "The worst strategy guide ever written." It was written with the intent of engaging players with Sony's new PlayOnline.com internet presence. Much of the guide is very surface level or vague, with tons of little call-outs to go to PlayOnline.com and input a keyword to get more information about a particular topic. The site is non-existent now, so the guide at this point is only good for a cursory overview of much of the game. If anyone is curious, I am putting a picture of the first page of the walkthrough proper below (covers exploring Alexandria as Vivi).

Spoiler:

IMAGE(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/892914841772240926/1091892963669442701/20230401_181230.jpg)

bobbywatson wrote:
Mr GT Chris wrote:

Had a few Moogle tutorials about how abilities work which reminds me of another game but can't think of it at the moment.

I think Lost Odyssey has a similar system when it comes to learning skills, but it's been a while, so I could be wrong there.

As for me: I think I played 15 minutes yesterday, not much to report yet.

Some recent Tales games also have this system (Vesperia and Berseria at least). I'm not a huge fan since it leads to grinding for AP with subpar gear but I can see why they do it.

I also played a little more yesterday, escaping the castle and arriving at a new location. The feeling of swashbuckling adventure is really working for me at the moment.

I actually enjoy the meta-game of switching through gear, just feels like it gives me a little something extra to do. I assume (perhaps even vaguely recall) that the difference between the queen and princess will be explained later. Like I mentioned before, I really hate the lack of consistency between the character designs. Every time the knight makes a dumb expression, it feels like something from an American Saturday morning cartoon rather than what I'd hope to see in my jrpg and certainly doesn't match with Zidane or Garnet.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

I actually enjoy the meta-game of switching through gear, just feels like it gives me a little something extra to do.

Yeah, me too. FF6 had something similar, with leveling up the Materia pieces themselves. I generally dislike grinding trash mobs in JRPGs for character levels alone, but for some reason, this added meta-progression is enough of an incentive to make me not hate doing it.

Malkroth wrote:

Is it just me, or do Princess Garnet and Queen Branhe not even look like the same species? Garnet is clearly human but Branhe looks like some kind of frog person.

Spoiler:

If I remember correctly, Garnet is adopted. Not 100% sure, but I think she's from the same village as Eiko.

bobbywatson wrote:
Malkroth wrote:

Is it just me, or do Princess Garnet and Queen Branhe not even look like the same species? Garnet is clearly human but Branhe looks like some kind of frog person.

I've been avoiding spoilers but my first thought was that Brahne has been dosing herself up with something nefarious, that has taken its toll on her. Just a guess, though!

Also Garnet doesn't look exactly human either, at least not in the remaster. But it's hard to tell since all the characters are bit stylised.

Finished the Ice Caverns today, and I definitely remember basically nothing about this game. I got to the one scene that I do remember clearly
(Post Ice Caverns)

Spoiler:

Where Garnet assumes a new identity by calling herself "Dagger". Even back in 2001, I thought that was a pretty stupid name, and kept her name Garnet.

Coming off Tales of Arise, the story does definitely feel plodding. We got some good action in Alexandria, but as soon as you hit the Evil Forest, it feels like you're moving forward "just because", no real reason driving the crew forward, or even together. Zidane is just "pretty girl, must make her like me", Garnet wants to be free of the castle, Steiner does whatever Garnet says, and Vivi's a unsure kid so he just follows. Not really a complaint yet, as I am only ~4 hours in, but just a pretty stark comparison to Tales of Arise where 4 hours in you've defeated a major boss and have two very solid and connected characters.

I believe others have mentioned this in the thread before, but to me it seems like the characters all have very different art styles. Almost like they were grabbed from separate games and shoved into a single one, there's just a lack of cohesion I am used in JRPGs. Also like every third person is some kind of animal person. The backgrounds are very muddy and hard to read to me. Not sure if that is an artifact of playing on the Switch, or if Square was just struggling with the PS1 at this point. Also just a personal thing, the character models look kind of claymation-y, and that is a style that does not really appeal to me.

I am liking the game so far though and want to get some more time in to see where it goes and how the systems start working together. The graphics just did not age as well as the SNES games or even some contemporary PS1 games.

Made it to and out of a certain village with a sandstorm motif. Prevented an execution and am now playing hide and seek with a certain elemental summon. Got into a fight with a book boss that I recall being a bastard to beat back in the day. It still is.

brokenclavicle wrote:

Made it to and out of a certain village with a sandstorm motif. Prevented an execution and am now playing hide and seek with a certain elemental summon. Got into a fight with a book boss that I recall being a bastard to beat back in the day. It still is.

I'm right around the same point as you; I died to the book boss and rage-AltF4'd from the main menu. I'll give it maybe one more shot before moving on.

Was that an optional boss? I must have missed it. Anyway, I'm now wandering around on a new continent. Always feels good when the full world map opens up!

ComfortZone wrote:

Was that an optional boss? I must have missed it. Anyway, I'm now wandering around on a new continent. Always feels good when the full world map opens up!

It is. IIRC, you can only access it in the library in Alexandria Castle when a certain something happens and a 30 minute timer starts ticking down on the screen.

I am now missing only one party member and am at what I recall as being one of the cooler bits of the story.

brokenclavicle wrote:
ComfortZone wrote:

Was that an optional boss? I must have missed it. Anyway, I'm now wandering around on a new continent. Always feels good when the full world map opens up!

It is. IIRC, you can only access it in the library in Alexandria Castle when a certain something happens and a 30 minute timer starts ticking down on the screen.

I recall the reward for doing that being pretty good, but the fight being a royal pain in the butt.

Ah right I kind of rushed through that section. Does anyone know if we can revisit here (and other smaller areas) later in the game?

It is possible to fight the book monster later in the game - there will be one more opportunity to pass through this area.

Popping my head in to declare an intent to lurk with potential to hop on board a bit later on (thank you, merphle). Never played 9 but I'm now remembering that I mained Zidane in the original Dissidia, so my curiosity has grown to attention.

Well I played a bit more last night, and now find myself at the base of this big ol' tree. It must be important since everyone seems to have their own special name for it.

Along the way we picked up a new party member who unfortunately is my least favourite so far, both in terms of personality (thank god there is no voice acting in this game) and party role. We really don't need another white mage right now, sorry! And Quina was starting to get pretty powerful, too. It does make me wonder if one of the white mages is about to meet a sticky end, but I don't remember anything like that happening in this game. Then again I'm realising I don't remember much of anything from my first playthrough, so who knows? Hoping to check out the tree tonight.

The game is just making up for the severe and noticeable drought of white mages during some earlier sequences. One of my FF pet peeves is when the game shows you how amazing the Cure spell is at keeping your party alive, and then removes your ability to use it for an extended sequence, forcing you to rely only on boring Potions (which, I might add, are LESS EFFECTIVE OUTSIDE OF BATTLE. What the heck??)

Well, I have made it all the way back to Lindblum where some remodeling took place and its being built upon. Saw the coolest version of a certain castle summon - always makes me giddy - and lived through a certain mini-summoner's life story recount, which actually hit harder now, so many years removed from the first time I played through this game. The princess' own plight and tragedy also hit harder. I guess it might be a mixture of it being so long since I played this and my considerably older and more experienced point of view?

I also think I won the card tournament in Treno for the first time ever. I hate Tetramaster in this game, but I managed to wing it this time around.

In any case, thoroughly enjoying this. On the sidequest side of things, I have managed to feed ore to 4 of the friendly monsters which, if I recall correctly, will lessen how difficult a certain optional boss will be; I have also answered a few of quiz mouse's questions correctly and let him run away when I wasn't sure of one (forgot it does that); and I am missing 5 of the Stellazio coins.