Come all ye self-styled chefs and kitchen users, we must talk.

But within the various scraps and bits of meat, yeah, you'd be surprised. That is after all why you clean them.

Robear wrote:

But within the various scraps and bits of meat, yeah, you'd be surprised. That is after all why you clean them.

I mostly clean my grill because it functions so much better when it is used as designed. And it is not designed to have a layer of congealed fat on and around the burners.

Going back to the actual knives, if you're looking for a good Chef's Knife for reasonable money, these Victorinox 10" knives are on sale right now at $35.

I've got the 8". I'm wondering if they're slightly changing the handle looking at Amazon. The 8" in the style that I have and is shown in the video is OOS and there are new 8" and 10" versions with less rounded handle shapes for a bit more money. These have a kind of a concave cut to the handle.

EDIT: Never mind on the new style. That 8" with the different handle has been on sale at Amazon since 2011.

Can Stan for those knives. We have a 10" chefs and a half dozen paring knives from them.

Really hits the bang for your buck out of the park.

Outstanding knife for the money.

I have two 8" chef knives in my kitchen. A Henckels I use most of the time and a Shun my wife prefers. In either case as long as I keep the edge honed and stropped, they work about as well as just about anything else.

This may be a little contrarian, but the widely available metallurgy, overall construction, and quality control of even "consumer grade" chef knives have gotten good enough that I would tell most folks that the determining factor for your purchase should really be ergonomics and, dare I say, aesthetics. A $35 chef knife properly honed and stropped will perform as well as a $4000 custom knife made of exotic alloys. It just won't look as nice on your 20' Italian marble kitchen island.

Paleocon wrote:

This may be a little contrarian, but the widely available metallurgy, overall construction, and quality control of even "consumer grade" chef knives have gotten good enough that I would tell most folks that the determining factor for your purchase should really be ergonomics and, dare I say, aesthetics. A $35 chef knife properly honed and stropped will perform as well as a $4000 custom knife made of exotic alloys. It just won't look as nice on your 20' Italian marble kitchen island.

That's not contrarian, it's just f*cking sensible, my dude.

My contrarian opinion - $4000 knives are for chumps. Those Victorinox are more than ample for home chefs.

If you need your knives to look fancy, spend that money on therapy instead and address your insatiable narcissism.

Jonman wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

This may be a little contrarian, but the widely available metallurgy, overall construction, and quality control of even "consumer grade" chef knives have gotten good enough that I would tell most folks that the determining factor for your purchase should really be ergonomics and, dare I say, aesthetics. A $35 chef knife properly honed and stropped will perform as well as a $4000 custom knife made of exotic alloys. It just won't look as nice on your 20' Italian marble kitchen island.

That's not contrarian, it's just f*cking sensible, my dude.

My contrarian opinion - $4000 knives are for chumps. Those Victorinox are more than ample for home chefs.

If you need your knives to look fancy, spend that money on therapy instead and address your insatiable narcissism.

Truth be told, $7 chef knives from your restaurant supply stores will work just as well as anything else and they probably won't be as needy about how you treat them.

Edit: but I am too much of a narcissist to have a kitchen full of Choice(tm) knives.

There's also a choice of whether to go with the traditional, somewhat old-fashioned heavy knive, or lighter ones. I used heavy ones all my life, thick blades, and I found that moving to a thinner, lighter blade actually made it easier to work with the knife.

The Babish branded ones are a good value option. I think I paid about US$35 for mine.

Paleocon wrote:

Outstanding knife for the money.

I have two 8" chef knives in my kitchen. A Henckels I use most of the time and a Shun my wife prefers. In either case as long as I keep the edge honed and stropped, they work about as well as just about anything else.

This may be a little contrarian, but the widely available metallurgy, overall construction, and quality control of even "consumer grade" chef knives have gotten good enough that I would tell most folks that the determining factor for your purchase should really be ergonomics and, dare I say, aesthetics. A $35 chef knife properly honed and stropped will perform as well as a $4000 custom knife made of exotic alloys. It just won't look as nice on your 20' Italian marble kitchen island.

I think the expensive knives like most things only get you a small margin over reasonably priced good knives. Those Victorinox knives are probably 95% of the knife you could get for 5 times more money.

I personally use 6 and 8 inch Furi hybrid knives that are a blend of a chef knife and a Santoku most of the time. Full stainless tang/handles. Think they call them "East/West" knives or similar. They're not overly expensive, but sharpen well, and hold an edges if my knife doesn't use them to cut on plates

Robear wrote:

There's also a choice of whether to go with the traditional, somewhat old-fashioned heavy knive, or lighter ones. I used heavy ones all my life, thick blades, and I found that moving to a thinner, lighter blade actually made it easier to work with the knife.

Depends on what you're doing. If you're cutting into something solid like a potato, too thin and you can't use the back of the blade for leverage very well and it hurts your palm Kind of like jimping on a pocket knife.

Seriously, though, if I were sending a kid off to college who actually knows how to cook, I would get them a set of Choice(tm) knives and a simple pull through sharpener. It may not get to a sub-100 reading on your Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester, but I bet you it would get you somewhere in the 130-180 range and still not cost more than $40 for four knives and a sharpener. And if you need better than that, you are doing a kind of cooking you only see in Chef Slowik's kitchen.

I bought a $15 Chinese cleaver (search on amazon for "Winco" cleavers) the other year that's become almost my favorite knife. My mom has always used these.

During the pandemic lockdowns I took a shot at learning how to sharpen by hand on stones ... I almost got OK at it but it didn't stick and the second time I went after this cleaver the sharpened edge came out lop sided or something. So I had it machine sharpened and it's been fine.

I think expensive knives are kind of hype ... but would not judge people who want to get them just for the bling. But you can save a lot of brain cycles worrying about sharpening and stuff by just buying more cheap knives. Only sort of kidding.

psu_13 wrote:

I bought a $15 Chinese cleaver (search on amazon for "Winco" cleavers) the other year that's become almost my favorite knife. My mom has always used these.

During the pandemic lockdowns I took a shot at learning how to sharpen by hand on stones ... I almost got OK at it but it didn't stick and the second time I went after this cleaver the sharpened edge came out lop sided or something. So I had it machine sharpened and it's been fine.

I think expensive knives are kind of hype ... but would not judge people who want to get them just for the bling. But you can save a lot of brain cycles worrying about sharpening and stuff by just buying more cheap knives. Only sort of kidding.

The key to sharpening effectively is to hit one side until you get a burr all the way long the length of the edge. Then repeat on the other side until you pass the "wire" from side to side with finer and finer grits and break it off with your strop. This assures that you avoid the "lopsidedness" and that you get a straight edge down the length of the blade.

Bruce wrote:

The Babish branded ones are a good value option. I think I paid about US$35 for mine.

I got two of them when they were on sale and I was shocked at how good they are for the price.

Mannish Boy wrote:

Depends on what you're doing. If you're cutting into something solid like a potato, too thin and you can't use the back of the blade for leverage very well and it hurts your palm Kind of like jimping on a pocket knife.

We replaced our Henckels with kai Pure Komachi around 15 years ago, or more. The Pure knives are far thinner and lighter, but they are sharp enough to chop, scallop or shave carrots, potatoes and the like without pressing the the top of the blade (which, honestly, I think may be needed *because* of the width of the European style blades). Besides, the idea of having both hands on the knife and none on the hard veg sort of scares me, because they can roll around under the knife if it's not sharp enough.

So I can say with confidence that that has never been a problem for us since switching. It's just a matter of unlearning the habit.

Each of the knives runs around $15 separately, more or less based on size, with an 8 piece set being like $90. They meet Paleo's requirements of being well-made, aesthetically pleasing, sharp with good edge retention, and easy enough to re-sharpen. You can also send them in for sharpening once per year, I think.

There are times I want heavy German steel and times I want a slicy Japanese edge. It, honestly, depends on the kind of prep I am doing. It is, however, a pretty marginal difference as most anyone is going to be skilled enough to do all of the things with either tool. For the rockering cuts I prefer, the heavier, deeper bellied German blade feels more comfortable. Having a little mass behind the edge makes rockering just more pleasant. For tip-up cutting or tip work, the Japanese is lighter and slicier which makes it more maneuverable. Honestly though, the difference is so marginal that it wouldn't be worth washing two knives if I had to do both jobs in one go. In the end, far more important is whether or not the edge is sharp and aligned and that is more a function of care and maintenance than the design or construction of the knife.

I guess what I am trying and failing to say is that the differences in utility between one brand of knife and another are so marginal that they aren't going to move the needle in your results. Your time, money, and effort would be far better spent improving your prep technique. Spend a week working prep for an overworked caterer friend or volunteer kitchen and work around folks who do this sort of work under the clock and your technique, food safety protocols, and (critically) your timing will improve drastically more than it would spending an extra $30 on better steel. It's a skill just like anything else and time and practice is so much harder than emptying your wallet, but so much more important.

Anyway..../lecture

How do you identify the presence of the burr on the edge, Paleo? That keeps tripping me up. I usually just do an arbitrary number of passes and move to the next stone.

Robear wrote:

How do you identify the presence of the burr on the edge, Paleo? That keeps tripping me up. I usually just do an arbitrary number of passes and move to the next stone.

I am able to do it entirely by feel, but if you are unsure, take a cucumber out of the fridge and drag the edge backward across the skin of the cucumber. If there is no burr, it won't mar the skin. If there is it will definitely leave at least a scratch as if a microscopic rake is pulling across it. Either that or you can look for it using a jeweler's loup. Just make sure it runs the entire length of the blade.

Alternatively, you can mark the edge with a Sharpie and use your loup to hunt down any ink along the edge. This also gives you a visual reference of where your bevel is off.

Yeah, by feel. Drag your thumb gently from the thick edge of the knife towards the edge. If you don't feel the burr at the edge, you don't have a burr yet.

Even easier than just your thumb, use your fingernail to see if it catches on the edge.

"Backwards" is 90 degrees to the length of the blade, or along it?

Edit - Oh, I get it now, thanks everyone.

Robear wrote:

"Backwards" is 90 degrees to the length of the blade, or along it?

Imagine you are using your chef knife to spread peanut butter.

Doesn't everyone?

MannishBoy wrote:

Even easier than just your thumb, use your fingernail to see if it catches on the edge.

Yes. This is what I do.

This looks like a device I would use.

https://shop.razoredgesystems.com/pr...

Do any of you make your own sandwich bread? That is easy to make?

If so, please share all your secrets. All of them - no secrets left behind! We all must know!

(please)

-BEP

ps. I've never made bread in my life

Every week. I tend to riff on the recipes in Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast. It always turns out amazing and is pretty simple after you’ve done it a time or two.

Edit: I was gonna post some photos, but honestly, the bread ends up looking exactly like the loaf on the cover.

Edit 2: if you do go that way, he has some equipment recommendations that I’d echo and can link you to so you don’t have to wait after the book arrives.

For years, my mother made her own bread (white, loaves in a tin, but they made huge sandwiches if you cut them thick). I made some too, the whole family did eventually. It's not hard. It's a bit time-consuming but not at all difficult. Might take a few loaves to get it down but once you are dialed in it's a great routine.

Or... Don't tell Bill ....you could grab a bread-making machine and save time that way. That will produce a decent loaf. Not a glorious sourdough or the like, but certainly very very tasty.

Another vote for a breadmaker. Doesn't make brilliant bread, but it's better than a sliced loaf from the grocery store, and takes literally 5 minutes to get one baking once you've got it figured out.