NFL 2023: The preseason / predraft thread

According to a story in The Athletic (paywalled), Russell Wilson wanted Pete Carroll and John Schneider fired in Seattle, and wanted Sean Payton brought in to replace them.

Quote the article:

Before the Seahawks traded Russell Wilson to the Broncos, the quarterback requested the team fire coach Pete Carroll and general manager John Schneider, league sources told The Athletic. On Friday, Wilson denied the report in a tweet, saying “I never wanted (Carroll or Schneider) fired.” Here’s what you need to know:

  • Wilson was convinced that Carroll and Schneider were inhibiting his quest to win additional Super Bowls and individual awards, according to league sources who spoke to The Athletic on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the details.
  • The quarterback had a preferred replacement in mind: Sean Payton, who had recently stepped down from the New Orleans Saints.
  • Wilson placed his request to fire the coach and GM in February 2022. Within days of his call, top team officials met and decided to pursue trading the nine-time Pro Bowler, per sources.
  • Payton and Wilson are now united in Denver after the Broncos hired the coach this offseason.

They're never going to retire his number in Seattle.

Rat Boy wrote:

They're never going to retire his number in Seattle.

You're god-damned right.

The fanbase embraced that D and Marshawn. No love for phony Russ.

Rat Boy wrote:

They're never going to retire his number in Seattle.

I think forcing his way out of town kinda sealed that deal. Seattle residents are happy to roll their eyes at and put up with athletes who think they are more media savvy than they actually are (see: ARod in the late-90s), but forcing a trade comes across as a betrayal, especially with the fake way said players talk about the city and team before forcing their way out of town. Besides, 75% of the fanbase at the time also wanted Carroll and Schneider fired.

Interestingly, Griffey also forced a trade out of town and he's still beloved here. I think there are a few reasons for that:

  • He had for years talked about wanting to be closer to his parents as they got older (and, iirc, his mom was having some health issues at the time).
  • He rejected what would have been the largest contract extension ever, so it didn't appear to be about money.
  • Whatever his real feelings were about the team, he kept his mouth shut on the way out the door.
  • He came back at the end of his career and was a key part of a really fun season (I'll just pretend the 2 months he tried to play the following season never happened).
  • And finally, Mike Cameron came back in the deal and was (and still is) immediately a fan-favorite.

Question for the football people -- do NFL players go into the Hall of Fame as a member of a specific team? I'm guessing that Russ would probably have to have his career rebound in order to have a chance at getting in, but it'd be endlessly amusing to me if he went in as a Seahawk but the team still didn't retire his number.

billt721 wrote:

Do NFL players go into the Hall of Fame as a member of a specific team?

Nope! The one-day retirement contracts we see occasionally are purely symbolic.

Phishposer wrote:
billt721 wrote:

Do NFL players go into the Hall of Fame as a member of a specific team?

Nope! The one-day retirement contracts we see occasionally are purely symbolic.

Plus I'm pretty sure Russell Wilson cooked his HoF chances after last season in Denver. He's not even going to get the Eli "But His Rings!" bump unless he cheeses his way to a second.

Oh yeah -- like I said, I think he'd need a career rebound to even have a chance. Which isn't necessarily out of the realm of possibility, but I also don't think is very likely.

His chances of rebounding are also hurt by the fact that he's sneaky-old for someone drafted when he was since he spent a few years realizing he was completely incapable of hitting a curveball.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/x5qxjmt.jpg)

Oh, so that's what they were waiting for...

NFLPA head DeMaurice Smith under consideration for the position of Secretary of Labor. Fitting since the outgoing Secretary of Labor's going to run the NHLPA.

Bears plan to meet with top quarterbacks at Combine

I can't wait for the Bears to completely implode by having the first pick. I'm sure that will fake themselves out 5 times and screw it up.

Carson Wentz cut. Now let us begin the time of the offseason where fans of QB-needy teams play NOT IT the hardest.

jowner wrote:

Bears plan to meet with top quarterbacks at Combine

I can't wait for the Bears to completely implode by having the first pick. I'm sure that will fake themselves out 5 times and screw it up.

Don't they need to do that to drive up the price for #1?

Top_Shelf wrote:
jowner wrote:

Bears plan to meet with top quarterbacks at Combine

I can't wait for the Bears to completely implode by having the first pick. I'm sure that will fake themselves out 5 times and screw it up.

Don't they need to do that to drive up the price for #1?

It's the Bears.

They are liable to end up keeping the pick and drafting the wrong QB.

You give them too much credit.

At least this time they can't trade up to pick the wrong QB.

I'm not yet buying the idea of Chicago using the pick. Until something further makes me feel otherwise, I'm going to assume that it's posturing to help create a market for the pick.

That said, New Matt and New Ryan didn't draft Fields, and if they're going to live up to their namesakes, continuing the long-standing Bears tradition of dumping the last regime's QB and starting over would certainly be On Brand.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Carson Wentz cut. Now let us begin the time of the offseason where fans of QB-needy teams play NOT IT the hardest.

I'm standing strong with my prediction of Wentz as QB2 and potential bridge starter in Carolina.

Frank Reich didn't hire Josh McCown to coach any heathen QBs. The Jimmy Garoppolos of the league need not apply.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Carson Wentz cut. Now let us begin the time of the offseason where fans of QB-needy teams play NOT IT the hardest.

I'm standing strong with my prediction of Wentz as QB2 and potential bridge starter in Carolina.

Frank Reich didn't hire Josh McCown to coach any heathen QBs. The Jimmy Garoppolos of the league need not apply.

NOT IT

*Legion* wrote:

That said, New Matt and New Ryan didn't draft Fields, and if they're going to live up to their namesakes,

Are you saying they should trade Fields for Matt Ryan?

*Legion* wrote:

I'm not yet buying the idea of Chicago using the pick. Until something further makes me feel otherwise, I'm going to assume that it's posturing to help create a market for the pick.

That said, New Matt and New Ryan didn't draft Fields, and if they're going to live up to their namesakes, continuing the long-standing Bears tradition of dumping the last regime's QB and starting over would certainly be On Brand.

I kinda want them to not trade Fields and draft a QB. #rootforchaos

Rat Boy wrote:

Netflix announces a quarterback docu series focusing on Patrick Mahomes, Marcus Mariota, and... Kirk Cousins. Can we get a Skip Cousins button?

Update: Falcons cut Mariota. Quick, someone suggest to Netflix a replacement.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

That said, New Matt and New Ryan didn't draft Fields, and if they're going to live up to their namesakes,

Are you saying they should trade Fields for Matt Ryan?

No, in a couple of years when the Bears fire New Matt and New Ryan, they'll hire him as a coach/GM combo to be New New Matt and New New Ryan all in one.

Actual conversation with a Bears fan coworker.

Bears Fan Coworker: The Ravens should trade us Lamar for the #1 pick and Justin Fields.
Me: So we should trade a unanimous MVP for a first round pick.
BFC: the number one and Justin Fields.
Me: Like I said, for a first round pick.

Why would the Ravens trade for a QB when they can just bring back Flacco?

Lol. It continues.

Bfc: you don’t get it. It’s the number one overall. That’s like two picks. And Justin Fields was also a first rounder.

Me:… the fact that yo think Justin fields is worth anything in trade is why you folks have the first overall

Paleocon wrote:

Lol. It continues.

Bfc: you don’t get it. It’s the number one overall. That’s like two picks. And Justin Fields was also a first rounder.

Me:… the fact that yo think Justin fields is worth anything in trade is why you folks have the first overall

I mean... I wouldn't do that trade either if I'm the Bears. You're basically trading Fields, Jalen Carter, and multiple more 2nd and 3rd round picks you'd get from trading the #1 down to Houston and/or Indy. Then you get a QB in Jackson that who knows if you'll be able to resign him as he's apparently looking for a Watson-type megadeal that is fully guaranteed.

Lamar's obviously way better than Fields right now in a vacuum, but given the state of the Bears, they are more than a QB away from contending anytime soon so I'd take my chances that Fields develops like Hurts and build around him with picks and cap space signings. If he doesn't develop, then you'll have another shot at a top QB like Caleb Williams next year. Trading/extending Lamar would basically make the Bears a middling team that won't be at the top of the draft, but won't be in the playoffs either with so many other holes on the roster.

What ukickmydog said; I wouldn't trade for Lamar right now. He's missed four games both of the last two years, and there's that old saying that the best ability is availability. Sure, maybe a new offense designed to focus more on passing reduces the hits he takes, but you have to worry that the injury history is going to be a consistent problem. I'd much rather roll with a giant-ass question mark in Justin Fields and a load of picks rather than potentially winning the NFC North at 10-7 a few years and then getting bounced out because my utterly crappy roster doesn't have anything else.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

What ukickmydog said; I wouldn't trade for Lamar right now. He's missed four games both of the last two years, and there's that old saying that the best ability is availability. Sure, maybe a new offense designed to focus more on passing reduces the hits he takes, but you have to worry that the injury history is going to be a consistent problem.

And, perhaps more importantly, you're going to have to give Lamar a Watson-busting amount of guaranteed money for the opportunity to find out.

Nobody's trading for Lamar without a contract agreement in place, and Lamar's not going to agree to anything less than his demands from a team that's giving up capital to get him.

I don't see much happening with Lamar outside of the franchise tag. Maybe the non-exclusive franchise tag so he can go negotiate with other teams and find out nobody is going to give that much guaranteed to a guy that finished the last two seasons on the sideline.

Then he either plays 2023 on the tag, sits out, or (least likely option) comes to the table with more appropriate demands.

I am increasingly convinced that the genie is out of the bottle irrespective of what happens with Lamar's contract. Whether or not he plays on the tag, gets traded, or settles for something less than Watson's deal, the NEXT deal for a playoff caliber qb will ABSOLUTELY bust the precedent. No way does Burrow sign for a penny less than $50m/year fully guaranteed. The same goes for Herbert. The fact that the NFLPA is involved seems to support this.

Bischiotti has decided this is the hill he wants to die on and die on it he will. He will force a holdout showdown and a trade, probably right before the draft. And the loss of Lamar will trigger a fire sale and rebuild.

Ownership doesn't want this to happen, and I'm not betting against the rich old white men, certainly not on this one.

The market for total guaranteed money on a QB deal is $140m-165m. All the big contracts are in that range except for Watson's $230m.

No way does Burrow sign for a penny less than $50m/year fully guaranteed. The same goes for Herbert.

No way do the Bengals and Chargers, the two absolute cheapest franchises in the NFL, offer those terms. They'll be stuck playing year-to-year on the franchise tag like they're Kirk Cousins in Washington. Or they can take $175m guaranteed.