Windows 11?

Because I'm a compulsive updater, I just updated to Windows 11.

And, I don't like it. The new user interface doesn't sit right with me. It feels like biggest step back since Ballmer tried to get rid of the Start menu back in Windows 7. The new Start menu and Taskbar just seem way less functional and configurable than they had been.

Also, the new, smaller taskbar icons seem really poorly designed for increasingly high res displays. They're all a little too small.

They removed the temperature/weather widget from the taskbar and that was like the most useful new feature they've implemented in the last 20 years.

So, the really, really big problem for me is that they removed the ability to ungroup icons on the taskbar. So, to find a window, you have to mouseover the application icon and then try to figure out which of the little microwindows represents the window that you are trying to find.

This is one of those interface things that probably doesn't matter to some folks, but it is incredibly jarring and frustrating to me. It basically changed one of the fundamental interface features that's been in place since Windows 95.

There are ways to fix it, but they involve reg key hacks and third party programs.

Restored back to Windows 10. Took less than 5 minutes. That part of the experience was positive.

There are plenty of reviews out there that go through the UI changes. I'd encourage anyone to check them out before upgrading. I plan to do so eventually, but I'd prefer things like DirectStorage to be available in a game I want to play first. I can probably get used to the taskbar changes, that's not a huge deal to me. But if it bothers you, make sure you know what those changes entail before upgrading.

Reviews:
Ars Technica
The Verge
Neowin
Tom's Guide

The changes aren't nearly as radical as the remove-the-start-button change in Windows 8 (not 7), but I was surprised how much visceral dislike I had for them.

Windows 10 has been so great for so long and Microsoft has been doing so well in the last few years that I just assumed that 11 was going to be a bunch of positive, sensible improvements. After reading the Ars Technica review, this thing is feeling more like a Ballmer-era boondoggle.

HERE's the Ars Technica review, it's positive with some caveats. I don't see the Ballmer-era boondoggle in there...

The Good

A nice-looking and functional redesign that takes us past the Windows 8/10 design aesthetic.
Window management improvements are great across the board.
Performs about as well (and in some specific circumstances, better than) Windows 10 on the same hardware.
Raises awareness of security features like Secure Boot and TPM, which most people should be taking advantage of if they can.
Tons of beneficial tweaks to apps, touchscreen and pen support, and other fit-and-finish improvements.
Free upgrade from Windows 10.

The Bad

Windows 11 is more consistent and unified than Windows 8 or Windows 10, but you'll still find traces of older Windows versions all over the place.
Taskbar regressions will annoy those who relied on the flexibility and customization options of older versions.
Widgets still feel mostly pointless in their latest iteration.
Lots of built-in apps haven't been updated yet.
General brand-new-major-OS-update bugginess.

The Ugly

The biggest jump in Windows' system requirements in 15 years leaves plenty of perfectly functional and not-particularly-old PCs with no fully supported upgrade path.

I'm going to wait a few months until the first bugs are ironed out, but will take the plunge sooner than later.

dejanzie wrote:

HERE's the Ars Technica review, it's positive with some caveats. I don't see the Ballmer-era boondoggle in there...

Maybe I'm doing a certain amount of reading between the lines, but if the principle review for the flagship product for a major advertiser (and probably the most important company in the whole business tech industry) has a lot of hesitant and qualifying language, it suggests to me that the reviewer's thoughts are not exactly positive.

Again, different people interpret things differently, but it read to me like a diplomatically worded negative review.

From the conclusion:

That's not to say that Windows 11 is automatically guaranteed to be one of the "bad" versions of Windows, but I do think it's beginning its life with some of the same kinds of real and perceived problems that the less-successful Windows releases were saddled with.

Throughout the piece, the reviewer compares Windows 11 to 8 and Vista instead of the current operating system.

Was curious to check it out, but my 7-year old CPU isn't supported so, eh I guess.

Both my laptop and desktop are officially supported, though both get the "Specific timing for when it will be offered can vary as we get it ready for you" message for now.

I might try it on the laptop first -- that's mostly a web-browsing and email machine, so fine for experimenting on.

DirectStorage and AutoHDR sound intriguing for the gaming desktop, except that it'd need a new graphics card to meet the hardware requirements for DirectStorage. And at this point, I still expect that by the time new graphics cards are available at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll be looking at a whole new build anyway.

Six weeks later, I got the option to upgrade both computers. I went ahead and put Windows 11 on my laptop yesterday.

I'm not impressed with the new Start menu or centering the taskbar icons (of all the things to copy from MacOS...), and I really don't get the Widgets. On the other hand, it fixed a recurring WiFi glitch. So overall, I guess it's okay.

I just noticed today that the update section of Win 10 says my computer doesn’t support 11.

Good. Now I don’t have to worry about it auto updating on me.

The upgrade to Windows 11 was offered on my gaming laptop, and I decided to go for it. So far no issues, and I like how the GUI is more responsive. No more 2 second lag when hitting the Windows button or opening programs!

It's alright. I've had it a month or so now.

It's missing some pretty basic old time features like dragging a file to an app on the taskbar to open and some basic configuration options. That's been the most frustrating to me. Widgets don't seem that useful at this point - guess we'll see. I see a slight increase in speed and while it certainly looks better it doesn't feel like a major visual update.

I will say it's been very stable. No issues getting anything to work.

I've had it for a few months now and had no issues with it. It's an operating system - it opens my programs, and gets out of my way otherwise. That's all I need.

Yeah, me too. I installed it when I got a few new components (CPU, GPU) late last year. Maybe if I had to use it all day I'd have more complaints, but as it is I only turn that computer on when I want to play a game and it launches games just fine.

patsy3523 wrote:

As someone who's new to this forum, I totally get where you're coming from. It can be tough to get used to changes in UI and functionality, especially when you're used to the way things used to be. That being said, I wanted to suggest a possible solution to your problem. Have you considered rolling back to Windows 10?

There's little reason to do this to be honest. Windows 11 is largely Windows 10 with a different interface, and Microsoft being Microsoft are in the process of leaving Windows 10 obsolete.

I've been using Windows 11 since I got my new PC at the end of last year and you know what? it's an operating system. It's fine. I've never struggled to find what I'm looking for or set up new components etc. The search function in Windows is actually not that bad and it'll find what I'm looking for if I can't find it in the UI. It really doesn't take that long to get used to.

The annoying thing, for me, is that the changes often don't make sense or you still have to go back to the old way. Adding a printer? Still easier to use the control panel. In fact almost all the controls are easier to do by going to control panel rather than the settings thing Win11 uses.

They really didn't change the underlying systems they just put an different coat of paint on them and often it is worse.

The issues with the Settings app relative to the Control Panel have been ongoing since Windows 8 and are the only thing that has really bugged me since moving on from Windows 7. I don't understand why it's taken them so long to get to the current point, and yet they're still missing functionality there.

I typed out a longer paragraph about how Windows 11 does what I need, then realized I said the same thing a few posts above. Definitely still holds true today.

I’ve finally gotten Windows 11 at work and it’s… good. As good as 10 more or less. I’m not sure what the consensus is, but I prefer the Start menu to be centered. Ever since monitors have gotten bigger and bigger it makes less sense to put things in corners in my opinion.

I have a Mac at home and as a long time Windows user I despise the menu bar on macOS. It looks silly to have a menu bar for an app all the way at the top left of the screen if you only have a small app window somewhere near the bottom or right of the screen. I wish the menu bars on macOS were anchored to the top of the window like Windows does.

PaladinTom wrote:

I’ve finally gotten Windows 11 at work and it’s… good. As good as 10 more or less. I’m not sure what the consensus is, but I prefer the Start menu to be centered. Ever since monitors have gotten bigger and bigger it makes less sense to put things in corners in my opinion.

I have a Mac at home and as a long time Windows user I despise the menu bar on macOS. It looks silly to have a menu bar for an app all the way at the top left of the screen if you only have a small app window somewhere near the bottom or right of the screen. I wish the menu bars on macOS were anchored to the top of the window like Windows does.

I use both macs and pc's and feel the same. I always thought I was an outlier because I probably prefer Windows more overall.

The Android subsystem works great. I'm not sure if there's a reason it requires Windows 11, but I like it.

The caveat being that while it's on the roadmap for the future, currently you can't easily share files between the Android subsystem and Windows (by comparison, Linux can easily share a drive/folder).

Issues I have with Windows 11 are mostly minor, although they are annoying. Like they've obviously made it intentionally frustrating to use anything but Edge your default browser. Every association has to be changed individually. So, you know, f*ck you Microsoft for that.

Another almost microscopic gripe is... I like seeing seconds on my taskbar clock. They've removed it completely. There used to be a registry hack to re-enable it, but it no longer works.

Other annoyances I've found workarounds for. Like I hate how it takes an extra click to get the expanded actions menu when you right-click in the File Explorer. I'd consider every change to the File Explorer a negative, honestly. It looks fancier/nicer, but every difference so far is functionally worse IMO.

Otherwise, I'd fall in with the "It's fine/It's an operating system." crowd.

Wasn't there a potential performance effect with a cpu constantly being interrupted by a system process just to show the seconds updating? I seem to recall something like that from a few years back.

There was an issue with AMD CPU’s, but that was patched quite a while ago. More recently there was an issue with Nvidia gpus, but that too has been patched. If you’re keeping up with Windows and driver updates you should be good.

ccoates wrote:

The Android subsystem works great. I'm not sure if there's a reason it requires Windows 11, but I like it.

Issues I have with Windows 11 are mostly minor, although they are annoying. Like they've obviously made it intentionally frustrating to use anything but Edge your default browser. Every association has to be changed individually. So, you know, f*ck you Microsoft for that.

Yes, to this. When it was first released there were alot of little features that had been in WIndows for years that were gone, like dragging a file to it's app on the taskbar to open, which still isn't there but they do add a few each big update.

So I am a complete noob here. But my system does not meet the requirement and I am not sure why. Has a 9700k and 3080ti.

Balthezor wrote:

So I am a complete noob here. But my system does not meet the requirement and I am not sure why. Has a 9700k and 3080ti.

You may need to enable a setting in your BIOS, called TPM 2.0. I'm in the same boat; I've been intentionally keeping it disabled to avoid getting auto-upgraded to W11 until I'm ready.

Microsoft how-to guide

Being in the tech field I find the additional right click "start menu" shortcuts awesome. Those bring up most of the "good" settings windows I need easily. I do agree that the regular gear icon settings menu hides most of the meaningful stuff which is annoying.

EvilDead wrote:

Being in the tech field I find the additional right click "start menu" shortcuts awesome. Those bring up most of the "good" settings windows I need easily. I do agree that the regular gear icon settings menu hides most of the meaningful stuff which is annoying.

They should have just made the first right-click menu editable.

EvilDead wrote:

Being in the tech field I find the additional right click "start menu" shortcuts awesome. Those bring up most of the "good" settings windows I need easily. I do agree that the regular gear icon settings menu hides most of the meaningful stuff which is annoying.

100% agree, when I need the more "advanced" features it's one click away, and it's cleaner when I need the basic options - which is 90% of the time.

I also prefer the centered Start menu now. My work laptop is still on Windows 10, I find the bottom left corner more inconvenient when connected to a big widescreen.

Maybe this all belongs in the Hot Takes thread

Looks like we're getting Microsoft tech support/community managers in this thread.

Well, since someone is paying attention, I will reiterate that I freaking despise the fact that Windows 11 took away the ability to ungroup windows on the taskbar. I upgraded to Windows 11 a couple of years ago and then downgraded again within about an hour once I had figured out that the user interface goblins had actively nuked that key capability.

Yes, there are third party apps that restore that capability. No, I shouldn't have to pay extra for that bit of core functionality.

Microsoft demonstrated that they can reverse bone-headed user interface decisions in Windows 8. They can do the same here.

It looks like there are some rumors that the "Ungroup Windows on Taskbar" functionality may be restored in the fall update. If that's true, I will happily upgrade to Windows 11 when that option is in place.

polq37 wrote:

Looks like we're getting Microsoft tech support/community managers in this thread.

No, just spam bots.